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MikeRaw
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Um, no... Lol. We have a ton of great hockey players, with a good chunk of the best hockey players coming from here) (Jarome Iginla, Sidney Crosby, Mike Richards, Joe Thornton, Simon Gagne, Duncan Keith, Dan Boyle, Rob Niedermayer, Mike Cammalleri to name a few) and a ton of great baseball players as well, like Jason Bay, Russell Martin, Rich Harden, Justin Morneau, Joey Votto, Erik Bedard and Ryan Dempster. Hell, even in basketball we have Steve Nash.
GSP is the biggest just because he's such a likable guy. He's succesful as hell, and is really just a proud Canadian, and awesome dude.
xtremebadass
Guest
"WWE CEO Donna Goldsmith" is just making herself look like a complete blueberry here.
There shouldn't even be a comparison between WWE and UFC. Whoever believes UFC and WWE are competition should be shot. It's like saying baseball is competition for WWE. You don't see "WWE CEO Donna Goldsmith" dissing baseball how they have no "real stars."
I really don't understand this whole topic.
WWE and UFC are two completely different businesses that should not be compared. Bottom line. They are just entirely different on so many levels, you would be a fool to think that one could, or even would, try to compete with the other.
There shouldn't even be a comparison between WWE and UFC. Whoever believes UFC and WWE are competition should be shot. It's like saying baseball is competition for WWE. You don't see "WWE CEO Donna Goldsmith" dissing baseball how they have no "real stars."
I really don't understand this whole topic.
WWE and UFC are two completely different businesses that should not be compared. Bottom line. They are just entirely different on so many levels, you would be a fool to think that one could, or even would, try to compete with the other.
It depends on what you mean by more mainstream. Pro wrestling is part of cultures all over the world much like baseball and soccer.
Talk to me about this when UFC does 4 TV shows a week plus one recap show. Its called OVER EXPOSURE.
Another reason its NOT mainstream. Mainstream it means you appeal to more than one demo. The WWE does try for a younger demo, but there are more than 6-12 year olds at WWE shows.
John Cena
The Big Show
Triple H
Steve Austin
The Rock
Hulk Hogan
All of these guys are names that people know because theyve been in movies and on TV shows. Hell in Stone Cold and Rocks case, THEY HOSTED shows (SNL and MAD TV) that reach more people than the WWE. Why? Surely not because they were MMA fighters. Oh yeah, thats right, THEY ARE PRO WRESTLERS and they have this little thing called PERSONALITY.
Yeah I forgot all wrestlers look alike.
Clearly all of these guys look the same
But all of these guys
are totally different
MikeRaw
Guest
MMA is massive in the States. But outside the States, it's even bigger. Mexico and Brazil have massive followings for MMA. As does Japan. Of course, there's also Canada, where it's the most popular of all the countries. Every store you go to in here has MMA stuff, any major street you walk on will have at least one person wearing some sort of MMA/UFC merchandise.
Having 4 TV shows doesn't matter if only like 2.5 million people average each one.
Similar to above. Having a mix doesn't make you more popular. For example: If 10 people love caramel ice cream, and those 10 people are all different (some black, some white... Some young, some old), and 40 people love Vanilla ice cream, but they're all 20 year old white people, the Vanilla is still more popular. Just because WWE has more of a mix in terms of what kinds of fans they have, doesn't mean it's more popular. Their collective fanbase is still smaller.
Rock, Austin, and Hogan don't count. They're not even currently in. We're talking about what's currently more mainstream. No one I know has a fucking clue who Big Show or Triple H are, if they don't watch wrestling. A few of my friends know Cena's name, but only vaguely, and didn't even know he was a wrestler. No one I know has a clue who the Big Show is.
Yeah I forgot all wrestlers look alike.
Clearly all of these guys look the same
But all of these guys
are totally different
All that does is prove why YOU like wrestling better. It doesn't prove anything as to WWE being more popular. And besides, all the WWE pictures you just posted... They all look like guys who could be fighting int he UFC, except for Rey.
And if you say the names "Hulk Hogan" or "The Rock" people KNOW who they are. Why? BECAUSE THEY USED TO BE WRESTLERS. What former MMA stars have starred in their own movies? Oh yeah thats right, NONE.
What does the Ultimate Fighter get on SPIKE? Wayyy less than Raw.
You are basing that off of what? Because the PPV buy rates are higher? Whats the biggest venue they sold out? Im guessing MAX its 15k. And various minor MMA affiliates here in the states barely draw as much as indy feds. When Chuck Liddel vs. Tito Ortiz draws 60,000 to the Citrus Bowl then you can make an argument.
But they were in, and they became MAINSTREAM STARS because of their time in pro wrestling
No were talking about stars in the opposite industries. Name me ONE, just ONE MMA star in the history of the business who's as over as The Rock, Hogan, Austin, or Cena. Did Tank Abbott get his own sitcom? No. Hell, no one in mainstream culture would know who FRANK Shamrock is if his brother didnt branch out from MMA and challenge Mike Tyson or get in the WWE.
Yeah Conan O'Brein, Jay Leno, and David Letterman generally talk to nobodies and invite them back countless times to their shows. Hey, tell me what MMA star put out a rap album. Or better yet, tell me what MMA star has been in as many tonight shows as Rock, Cena, or Show?
No, that proves that the stars of the WWE by and large have a different look as opposed to the cookie cutter fucks in MMA who all look the same. Granted the WWE have tried pushing these talentless cookie cutter fucks before, but generally the fail and fail badly. Why? They have no character, and you need to have character to be a star, of which MMA has NONE. Its not their business to produce stars, its their business to get in there and win a fight.
MikeRaw
Guest
We're talking about now, not then. We're talking about what is more mainstream NOW. Not the past. Right now, people who dont' watch either UFC or WWE, will know the names of MMA/UFC guys, more than WWE/wrestling guys.
The Ultimate Fighter isn't a live competition. It's a reality show that doesn't even feature UFC fighters.
No, I can make the argument right now, actually. UFC PPVs are more expensive than WWE, and still get hundreds of thousands more buys than WWE ones.
Because wrestling used to be more popular. Again, we're discussing now.
Why are you naming a bunch of jobbers? Go throw out the names Chuck Liddell, Brock Lesnar, George St-Pierre, Forrest Griffin, Anderson Silva, Wanderlei Silva, Rampage Jackson, and people will know who they are more than they know John cena, Edge, CM Punk, Rey Mysterio, or Randy Orton.
Please, stop mentioning Rock. Again, we're talking about current stuff. As for that... It's rare for sports athletes in general to get on talk shows. Usually athletes of any sport only get on shows after they win a championship. So if Dwight Howard hasn't been on David Letterman, and Big show has (which I didn't even think he has been), that doesn't mean Big Show is more mainstream than Dwight Howard.
Biggest current stars in WWE:
Triple H, Randy Orton, Edge, John Cena, Batista, CM Punk...
The future stars of WWE:
Cody Rhodes, Ted Dibiase, Jack Swagger, DH Smith, Tyson Kidd, Kofi Kingston, etc
All those guys look pretty generic to me.
Also, you don't need character to be a star. If you're a TV character, like WWE guys, yes, you do. But if you're a professional athlete, you just need to be popular, and good at what you do, even if you don't deserve to be. It's two different types of stars. You need character to succeed in wrestling because it's fake, so to get over, you need a character. In sports, which includes UFC, you don't. Although it still helps, but it's a different type of character (more personality, not a gimmick)
So why are we comparing?
I think this whole argument is pointless. Not only are your arguments repetitive and pointless, but there's no need. UFC is a sport, WWE is a show. I enjoy both. But there's no need to compare. As XBA said, they're two totally different things. It was the stupid "COO" or whoever she is that went out and compared the two. It was stupid on WWE's part in the first place for comparing the two.
The bottom line is, there is really no comparison, but for the record, the UFC has plenty of 'true stars', they're just different kinds. Pro athletes are different types of stars than a TV show star. No, they're not going to have CD's and Movies out, but neither is A-Rod, or Kobe Bryant, or Sidney Crosby, or Alex Ovechkin, or Johan Santana, or Tony Romo, but that doesn't make them less of stars. It's just different types./
No you dont want to argue the industry as a whole because you know youd lose.
But if MMA is as big as YOU say it is, they should be getting at least a 4.
Thats ONE aspect, I have named 5 more that the WWE owns MMA in.
No were comparing industries. You just dont want to admit that the MMA industry as a whole, and encompassed in its crown jewel (UFC) can not compare to the wrestling business and its crown jewel (WWE)
Has he been in movies? Nope. Does he have an energy drink? Nope. Does he have a tshirt that sells as good as a John Cena shirt? Nope. How does his action figure sell compared to Cenas? How about that great MMA video game? How is that doing in sales?
Try naming a guy who DIDNT used to be a wrestler.
=
Yeah Jack Swagger and HHH are twins. CM Punk and John Cena were separated at birth and Carlito and DH Smith are just like The Gymini. Face it, pretty much every MMA guy looks EXACTLY the same.
No, you dont have to be POPULAR, you have to have character. Why do you think guys like Dennis Rodman were more over than guys like Scotty Pippen in the mainstream? You need to have character, not A CHARACTER, but character, something that makes you different from the thousands of others in your industry.
Stars in Football
Payton Manning
Brett Favre
Randy Moss
TO
Tom Brady
Tony Romo
etc. these guys have something, be it their personality like the piece of shit Favre is turning out to be or the headcase TO is, that makes them different than the 4th WR on the depth chart.
Look at Golf. The most boring, mind numbing sport of all time, all it took was one guy, ONE GUY to stand out (and be good of course) to change the face of the sport. Why? He's different, he has character.
If there is no comparison why are you even arguing then?
MikeRaw
Guest
Pretty sure.
Couldn't tell you the figures on either Cena's or an MMA guys, but the UFC ones sell great,
Tremendous. Actually, far better than WWE's.
Nah. GSP looks nothing like Lesnar. Couture looks nothing like Anderson Silva. Liddell looks nothing like Lyoto Machida. Rampage Jackson looks nothing like Frank Mir. These guys don't look as different as different wrestlers (for example... Undertaker), but they're about the same in variety as any other sports league. Do you mean to tell me most basketball players don't look the same? And most wide recievers don't look the same? Bullshit. No athlete will be as crazy as WWE Superstars, because they're athletes.
Now you're just being stupid. All those guys have about the same amount of character as your average athlete, which is much less than a WWE superstar. You know why? Because athletes are athletes.
Tiger Woods has far less character than a George St Pierre, Chuck Liddell, or Tito Ortiz.
LOL, I'm not. Fuck. The WWE "COO" said UFC has no stars, and I just said it seems like a meaningless comparision, seeing as one is a sport, and one is a manufactured entertainment, and that UFC does have stars, just in an athlete sense, not in a character sense. I'm not een trying to argue over which is more popular (although UFC is currently more popular than WWE. Fact.) I started out basically just bashing the fact that a WWE official would be stupid enough to start comparing between the two, when they're completely different.
Anyway, I'md one here. If another MMA fan wants to continue this against you, they can, but I advise against it, cause there's really no point. Nothing to compare. No sense comparing what you or I think is better, because there's no facts to back up what 'is better'. The only thing to debate is what is currently more popular, and the answer to that is the UFC. Plain and simple. At this point in time, it's more relevant. But again, that doesn't really matter anyway, cause they're two completely different things. The only debate I'm starting is over what's more popular, and as far as I'm concerned, it's over.
I think all that needs to be said is it was stupid on WWE's part to even mention the UFC, and try to compare, when they're not even close to being the same.
Got the stats to back that up?
SD Vs Raw 2009: 800,000
UFC Unleashed: 240,000
Yeah thats totally outselling SD vs. Raw
Thank you for proving my point for me.
Really? Who is more over, Brett Favre or Sage Rosenfels? Payton Manning or Jeff Garcia? Terrel Owens or Terry Glenn?
Then why is Tiger more talked about, more well known, and better merchandized? Because he has more character, he has more charisma.
MikeRaw
Guest
Wrong. Firstly, your SD vs Raw sales are based on it's current sales, which has been months. Also, your sales for the UFC game are fake. In it's first week (and only 1 week) it has solid 457,000 copies combined on the PS3 and Xbox 360. That was only in the first week. It'll shatter the SD vs Raw sales by the time they've been out for equal length. By comparison, SD vs Raw sold 157,000 in it's first week.
The fact that you would lie gives me enough motivation to walk away from this argument right now knowing that I just wasted precious time on you.
Nation
Guest
A lot of UFC fighters have their own shirts through affliction. Jackson's shirt is very popular and it probably sells better than any wwe shirt with the exception of maybe Cena. But they do have shirts that sell. Your comparison of the video games is downright stupid. The UFC video game has been out for two weeks and is already at all most half a million on both consoles. Currently Smackdown vs. RAW 09 has yet to sell a million on any console and it's been out since the fall. In the first week 09 sold in the 100 thousands. Unleashed sold in the 200 thousands for both consoles. In the second week of sales 09 dropped sharply to 72,000(360) and 61,000(PS3). Unleashed sold 102,000(PS3) and 113,000(360). As it is Unleashed is looking to sell better and its a new franchise compared to SD vs. RAW which is established. Also Liddell and Couture have been in movies.
Edit: Dammit Mikeraw! Well you guys have fun arguing.
http://www.vgchartz.com/swlaunch.ph...9+Undisputed+-+X360®3=All&game3=&weeks=100
And what was the starring role those UFC stars had? Sure Cena may have been in SHIT movies, but hes done it. Someone said "yeah I want to produce him in a movie because he has something I think that will sell". I know there were a bunch of UFC guys in a fighting movie. OOOOO boy. I guess you think DDP has a movie career because he was in that shitty WCW movie as a bit player.
And what was the starring role those UFC stars had? Sure Cena may have been in SHIT movies, but hes done it. Someone said "yeah I want to produce him in a movie because he has something I think that will sell". I know there were a bunch of UFC guys in a fighting movie. OOOOO boy. I guess you think DDP has a movie career because he was in that shitty WCW movie as a bit player.
Nation
Guest
It's been out for months and the UFC chart is outdated. It doesn't include week two sales. Also Rampage Jackson has an energy drink called "Throwdown Beverages". Randy Couture was the star of Scorpion King 2.
I can't believe nobody commented on this. This statement absolutely screams fail. Tiger Woods is talked about because he is such a good golfer. His charisma or lack there of, has absolutely nothing to do with why he is such an enormous star.