Wrestling Challenge 2017

[MGS32]

Then look towards various torrent sites.

Also, word from a pro. Avoid the English commentary like the plague. It is GARBAGE

One of the appeals of New Japan to me was always the Japanese commentary so I don't understand why anyone would WANT to listen to the English one.

 

[Rosie]

One of the appeals of New Japan to me was always the Japanese commentary so I don't understand why anyone would WANT to listen to the English one.

I think the English one would be good if someone who speaks English is new to NJPW and doesn't understand every storyline going into it. Although the Japanese commentary can get very energetic.

Example:

 

[Stopspot]

I think the English one would be good if someone who speaks English is new to NJPW and doesn't understand every storyline going into it. Although the Japanese commentary can get very energetic.

Example:

The English commentators don't understand the stories. That's the problem

 

[RedDwarfTechy]

Tiger Mask W vs Tiger Mask Dark - Not lying, thought this was gonna be a joke, but was a pretty good match - 3/5

Rappongi Vice vs Young Bucks - 3.5/5 - It's actually the first time I've seen the young bucks in action. I like that swagger though!

More WK11 matches to come tomorrow, going through it bit by bit because [HASHTAG]#work[/HASHTAG].

Current Total - 9

 

[Aurtle The Turtle]

Match: WCW Monday Nitro - RUSSO'S REVENGE!
Date: September 4th, 2000
Promotion: WCW
Star Rating: -**
Analysis:
Fuck right off Vinny Ru! A War Games match named after a writer recycling the cage from Uncensored 1996 and Slamboree 2000, yes the god awful triple cage from the shite film, Ready to Rumble! It's Vince Russo, Nash, Steiner, Double J and The Harris brothers against Sting, Goldberg, Booker T and Ernest Miller, yes, Ernest "the cat" Miller. Nevertheless the match starts off awkwardly with the usual War Game rules of submission or quit being the only ways to win being thrown out of the window in exchange for the WCW World title being hanged up in the third cage to be retrieved. HOWEVER, there is another wacky spin! (fuck sake russo) You see, the person who retrieves the belt doesn't win oh no, the person who walks out of the cage with the belt wins so imagine my and the crowd's confusion when Booker T retrieved the belt and the match continued. Complete kayfabe obliterating stipulation because why would anyone not wait by the door rather than retreive the belt themselves and why would there be teams? Goldberg looks to win after a bunch of screwy crap goes down and people exchange turns lying about doing nothing for ten minutes but Bret Hart, yes, Bret Hart! Slams the door on his face! Bret can't wrestle anymore so this feud is going nowhere, fuck sake, it was just an excuse to have Goldberg lose. Nash leaves with the belt and his team celebrate for some reason, I'd be pretty pissed if I was a heel and didn't get the belt. Terrible.

Match: NOAH Summer Navigation 07' - KENTA & Taiji Ishimori vs Kota Ibushi & Naomichi Marufuji
Date: July 15th, 2007
Promotion: Pro Wrestling NOAH
Star Rating: ****3/4
Analysis:
From terrible to terrific. Ishimori looks slightly out of place as the three over world class wrestlers perform but manages to hold his own at times. Ibushi is slightly sloppier than the perfectionist we have come to know and love but his high flying ability has never been better, fast paced, lots of ass kicking and chin destroying action, Marufuji does a lot of flips whilst Kenta beats the shit out of everyone in his path. Sadly, I can see some of the lads waiting for spots at ringside, they're obviously much younger and less experienced here than the japan superstars they are now so they do match the occassional mistake. Lightning paced finish which ends with Ibushi and Kenta exchanging blows whilst the crowd go mental. Ibushi tries to go for a spinning heel kick but Kenta catches him and deadlifts him onto his shoulders for a brutal Go 2 Sleep which sends Ibushi's chin into another dimension. Probably one of the best tag matches I've ever seen.

Match: WrestleKingdom XI - Kazuchika Okada vs Kenny Omega
Daye: January 4th, 2017
Promotion: New Japan Pro Wrestling
Rating: *****
Analysis:
Oh look, it's the match everyone is going to be doing in this thread. Everyone knows by now that it's a surefire contender for MOTY and a lot of people are calling the greatest wrestling match they have ever seen. Do I think that? Kinda, it's probably the greatest pure wrestling performance by two athletes I've ever seen live, these guys worked harder than anyone ever had before them and the match built to an unbelivable final 20 minutes that rocked everyone in the wrestling community but I don't think it's the greatest wrestling match ever, I think Steve Austin vs Bret Hart has that award but even Bret Hart, "The best there was or ever will be" , should be singing the praises of both Okada and Omega. WWE have fallen into a sad cliche at the moment, the cliche of false finishes, when saved for the right moments and matches (as they were on WK11) they mean so much more than people kicking out of an AA every week, it's lovely to have simple finishers that are actually finishers, Okada didn't hit 4 Rainmakers this match because the Rainmaker has a very particular set up, he hit 2 weaker variations and 2 proper versions and the false finish of Omega kicking out of the first one in this match allowed the two performers to start taking it to the next level. WWE as wonderful as their performers and PPV are, need to start genuinely building people, we need less DQ finishes, less distractions, people need to start being put cleanly over other people, it worked wonders for AJ this summer and Zayn was red hot following his victory over Owens (too bad they fucked that). New Japan are currently the better company, no dispute but WWE should and COULD be the better company. The talent they have work too hard for them to squander it as much as they do.

 

[Jacob Fox]

See now here is my problem, there is such a clear bias to New Japan than there is WWE. This isn't about you I just wanted to rant because you brought up my issue, WK11 can have a huge lackluster undercard and 3 great matches and everyone adores it but if the same situation happens in WWE everyone shits on it. My basis on this is the Observer thumbs up/thumbs in the middle/thumbs down poll, it just bothers me. Like Battleground from July of this year you could compare to WK11 in a way, there wasn't a bad match on that show yet 15% of people rated is negative or neutral but then you'll see a poll for WK11 and it will be 95-100% positive because of the main events. Sorry for the mini rant but I just hate this anti WWE bias a lot of the time. Again not talking about you just in general.

The first thing to keep in mind is that although I said it was mostly because of the top four matches, I did not say the bottom 6 matches were bad. They weren't that great in comparison to the top four, but they weren't bad matches. There have also been several times me and other people on this forum have watched a WWE PPV and only liked one match but rated the PPV a 9 or 10 based on that one match. So at least in my experience, I don't see this bias you're talking about. If you look back over the rate threads you would find many instances of me liking only one or two matches on a Raw or Smackdown or WWE PPV and giving them a high score based on that one match.

Online polls are hardly scientific and that is one thing you should keep in mind. They don't accurately represent what the population really believes. Plus you have to consider the kind of people who vote in Observer polls. Typically, since New Japan isn't the easiest promotion to watch, you can be positive that the majority of people who take the time to watch it and vote on it are probably going to score it high because they are the people who are really into the product.

In all seriousness, I have no idea why it should bother you. If you like the show and 1000 people rated that show bad, does it change the show for you? It shouldn't. I personally don't care what other people think about things I like. People are biased, that's just human nature. Been that way for 1000s of years and likely will be for 1000s more.

 

[Jacob Fox]

Oh look, it's the match everyone is going to be doing in this thread. Everyone knows by now that it's a surefire contender for MOTY and a lot of people are calling the greatest wrestling match they have ever seen. Do I think that? Kinda, it's probably the greatest pure wrestling performance by two athletes I've ever seen live, these guys worked harder than anyone ever had before them and the match built to an unbelivable final 20 minutes that rocked everyone in the wrestling community but I don't think it's the greatest wrestling match ever, I think Steve Austin vs Bret Hart has that award but even Bret Hart, "The best there was or ever will be" , should be singing the praises of both Okada and Omega. WWE have fallen into a sad cliche at the moment, the cliche of false finishes, when saved for the right moments and matches (as they were on WK11) they mean so much more than people kicking out of an AA every week, it's lovely to have simple finishers that are actually finishers, Okada didn't hit 4 Rainmakers this match because the Rainmaker has a very particular set up, he hit 2 weaker variations and 2 proper versions and the false finish of Omega kicking out of the first one in this match allowed the two performers to start taking it to the next level. WWE as wonderful as their performers and PPV are, need to start genuinely building people, we need less DQ finishes, less distractions, people need to start being put cleanly over other people, it worked wonders for AJ this summer and Zayn was red hot following his victory over Owens (too bad they fucked that). New Japan are currently the better company, no dispute but WWE should and COULD be the better company. The talent they have work too hard for them to squander it as much as they do.

And for like the last 15 minutes, they both sold those near falls better than I have seen anyone do in a long time. I was really surprised no one messed up and further surprised either of them could stand.

 

[RedDwarfTechy]

WK 11
O'Riley vs Cole - 3.5/5
Cody vs Juice - 3/5
Three way tag title match - 3/5
Takahashi vs Kushida - 4/5 - Really loved it!
Shibata vs Goto - 4/5 - Holy crap, those hits seem brutal. And those headbutts! damn!

Current Total: 14

 

[RedDwarfTechy]

WK11

Testsuya Naito vs Hiroshi Tanahashi - IWGP Intercontinental championship Match: 4.5 - Really awesome and told a story really well for someone who had no idea about the characters

Kazuchika Okada vs Kenny Omega - IWGP Heavyweight championship match : 5/5 - It was such an awesome match from start to finish and damn that ending sequence and the last 15 minutes of it was just wow. The whole match was basically one cool spot after the other.

Current Total: 16

 

[RedDwarfTechy]

WK10

AJ Styles vs Shinsuke Nakamura - IWGP Intercontinental Match - 4.5/5 - Great match. They did a good amount of storytelling and they just kept getting more and more intense. Really enjoyed it. The YeaOh! at the end with the crowd was pretty frigging epic.

NJPW New Years Dash 2017

Ricochet, Kyle O'Reilly & David Finlay vs Jushin Thunder Liger, Tiger Mask & Henare - 3/5 decent starter

Yujiro Takahashi & Hangman Page vs Billy Gunn & Yoshi-Tatsu - 3/5. It didn't drag too long and was alright. Billy Gun still looking fit as a fiddle.

Scott Norton, Hiroyoshi Tenzan, Satoshi Kojima, Hiro Saito & Cheeseburger vs Kenny Omega, Bad Luck Fale, Tama Tonga, Tanga Loa & BONE SOLDIER - 3.5/5 for the match BUT WTF! I liked how Omega didn't look weak but damn Bullet Club shoulda had this one.

Kushida and Elgin vs Naito and Takahashi - 3.5/5, not too sold on Elgin yet but Takahashi, Kushida and Naito were awesome.

Katsuyori Shibata, Juice Robinson, Tomoaki Honma, Togi Makabe & Yuji Nagata vs Kazuchika Okada, Hirooki Goto, Toru Yano, Tomohiro Ishii & Will Ospreay - 3.5/5 - I did NOT see that ending coming, I was sure the champ's team would win. I think WWE has conditioned me to think the champion and his team is untouchable immediately after WM. This was a nice rub for Juice who I thought looked pretty good at WK and at New Year's Dash. That invasion thing is something I'm gonna look into. It looked cool and seems like the new angle for the champions.


Manabu Nakanishi, Hiroshi Tanahashi & Ryusuke Taguchi vs EVIL, SANADA & BUSHI (NEVER Six-Man tag title match) - 3.5/5 It was a good match, nothing outright memorable but a good enough end to the show.

WWE NXT
Nakamura vs Joe (Steel Cage Match) - 2.5/5. Was it bad? No. Was it something I want to watch again? Ever? No.

Current Total: 24

 

[Stopspot]

Match & Date: Jun Akiyama vs Kenta Kobashi (24.07.98)
Promotion: AJPW
Rating: 4.2

Match & Date: Jun Akiyama vs Yoshinari Ogawa (11.09.98)
Promotion: AJPW
Rating: 3.5

Match & Date: Jun Akiyama vs Takao Omori (04.09.99)
Promotion: AJPW
Rating: 3.5

Match & Date: Akiyama & Kobashi vs Misawa & Ogawa (23.10.99)
Promotion: AJPW
Rating: 3.8

Match & Date: Akiyama & Kobashi vs Omori & Takayama (30.10.99)
Promotion: AJPW
Rating: 4.0

Match & Date: Jun Akiyama vs Yoshihiro Takyama (09.01.00)
Promotion: AJPW
Rating: 3.8

Match & Date: Jun Akiyama vs Mitsuharu Misawa (27.02.00)
Promotion: AJPW
Rating: 4.1

Match & Date: Jun Akiyama vs Takao Omori (26.03.00)
Promotion: AJPW
Rating: 3.8

Match & Date: Akiyama & Mossman vs Kobashi & Shiga (09.06.00)
Promotion: AJPW
Rating: 3.7

Match & Date: Akiyama vs Kobashi (06.0800)
Promotion: NOAH
Rating: 4.8

Matches below here are all from New Japan's Wrestle Kingdom 11 show from January 4 2017


Tiger Mask W vs Tiger the Dark
Rating: 3.5

IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Tag Team Title: Rocky Romero & Baretta vs Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson (c)
Rating: 3.8

NEVER Openweight Six Man Tag Team Title, Gauntlet Match: SANADA, "King of Darkness" EVIL & BUSHI vs Satoshi Kojima, Ricochet & David Finlay (c) & YOSHI-HASHI, Will Ospreay & Jado & Yujiro Takahashi, Bad Luck Fale & Hangman Page
Rating: 3.5

Cody vs Juice Robinson
Rating: 3.5

ROH World Title: Adam Cole vs Kyle O`Reilly (c)
Rating:3.5

IWGP Tag Team Title: Toru Yano & Tomohiro Ishii vs Tama Tonga & Tanga Loa (c) vs. Togi Makabe & Tomoaki Honma
Rating: 3.9

IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Title: Hiromu Takahashi vs KUSHIDA (c)
Rating: 5

NEVER Openweight Title: Hirooki Goto vs Katsuyori Shibata (c)
Rating: 4.5

IWGP Intercontinental Title: Tetsuya Naito (c) vs Hiroshi Tanahashi
Rating: 5

IWGP Heavyweight Title: Kazuchika Okada (c) vs Kenny Omega
Rating: 4.9


Total watched matches: 38

 

[MGS32]

@Stopspot I just want to pick your brain for a second, why such a rating as 4.9? I've always seen these kinds of ratings are really odd because like when a reviewer gives a game 9.8 out of 10 and it makes me think, what exactly stops it from being that 0.1 or 0.2 mark higher. I haven't watch Okada/Omega so I have no bias in either direction I'm just curious on why you used such a specific rating.

 

[Stopspot]

@Stopspot I just want to pick your brain for a second, why such a rating as 4.9? I've always seen these kinds of ratings are really odd because like when a reviewer gives a game 9.8 out of 10 and it makes me think, what exactly stops it from being that 0.1 or 0.2 mark higher. I haven't watch Okada/Omega so I have no bias in either direction I'm just curious on why you used such a specific rating.

Because I feel it falls just short of being perfect/fantastic. And why differs from match to match. I'm actually not a guy who tends to rate stuff by numbers or stars or snowflakes. I just tend to rate how much I enjoy something. But I'm sticking to the number system here since it is the format used by most. But what is a 4.9 for me can very well be a 2.0 for you or a 5.0.

But I am firmly of the opinion that wrestling matches should be rated more on enjoyment than on some trivial point scale.

 

[MGS32]

Because I feel it falls just short of being perfect/fantastic. And why differs from match to match. I'm actually not a guy who tends to rate stuff by numbers or stars or snowflakes. I just tend to rate how much I enjoy something. But I'm sticking to the number system here since it is the format used by most. But what is a 4.9 for me can very well be a 2.0 for you or a 5.0.

But I am firmly of the opinion that wrestling matches should be rated more on enjoyment than on some trivial point scale.

No I get that but usually for me I just use Minus 5 - 5 Stars and go up in quarters and I was just curious as to why it was so specific if that makes any sense?

 

[Stopspot]

No I get that but usually for me I just use Minus 5 - 5 Stars and go up in quarters and I was just curious as to why it was so specific if that makes any sense?

I cannot really give a specific motivator. Because it differs from match to match really. It's one of the reasons I really try to not do "numbers" ratings. I get ornery like this