Wow RE: The WWE Title Match From Yesterday

[monkeystyle]

Watch from 0:30 till about 1:05 and listen to Miz's heat build. By the end they are raining boos down on him and they're not chanting Cena. They are clearly booing Miz. That's a good reaction.

[YT]SzG3MNSUqH0[/YT]

 

[Kaedon]

And I can find other times, promos, and matches where the crowd reaction is 1/90th that.

And you can say it's a logical fallacy, because it is, it's HIS LOGICAL FALLACY. His logic is flawed.

 

[monkeystyle]

Nonsense.

Your need to resort to reducing Enzo's arguments to absurdities in order to have any semblance of an argument indicates that the logical fallacy is in fact, on your end of the debate.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

Yeah ok, please tell me the ratings for PRIME TIME when Hogan was there, as opposed to the first Raws. The reason the ratings went up was because there was competition.

But, again, according to Enzo, if you're the one national organization (WWF in the 80s), everything has to do with brands and not individual players. So it wasn't Hogan who was the draw, it was everyone else. Don't you understand? People came to see Tito Santana take on a jobber not Roddy Piper vs. Hogan.

Ha. It's not according to Enzo, it's according to Enzo according to Kaedon.
Again, you either didn't read my initial post, lack basic comprehension skills, are putting words in my mouth and doing what ever you can to cling to whatever it is you're trying t cling to.

The days of having single stars like Hogans, Flairs, Austins and Rocks as meal ticket draws are over, they've been over for 8 years. The WWE markets itself as an entire company, and not as just one big ticket act and associated superstars. It's simplified it's marketing to brand itself as what the fans are paying to see instead of taking the potential risks of losing stars they branded, such as Hogan, Austin, Rock and Lesnar to other forms of entertainment and media. They've followed this model since the switch of the name, despite the losses of guys like Lesnar and Lashley.

I don't know where you're getting these absurdities to try and pad your argument You've put so many words in my mouth that I clearly covered in my initial post, but I guess when you fail to grasp a concept or have a decent rebuttal, you do what you gotta. So you can keep with the "according to Enzo" but you need to also put "this is how Kaedon comprehended what Enzo clearly typed and covered all bases in his initial post. Such as:

Unless it was Rock/Austin/Hogan right, then it was the single person and not "the brand". Convenient.....

The days of having single stars like Hogans, Flairs, Austins and Rocks as meal ticket draws are over, they've been over for 8 years.

And of course neither Austin, Rock nor Hogan have been featured attractions for over eight years. Hmmm...

I can continue to list the instances of you putting words in my mouth for the convenience of your awful arguments or your contradictions, but it's just easier to say you don't have a grasp on the words "heat", "carry" and "draw". And that's the last of this.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Is it just me or did it seem like Cena and Miz were playing off of this thread last night?

Truth be told, Kaedon, Miz's comments about must-see were actually true, rating have increased under a Miz title-reign...

 

[Axis]

Is it just me or did it seem like Cena and Miz were playing off of this thread last night?

Yes, I saw Miz and Cena lurking on Saturday night, so that is probably when they got the material for their promo.

 

[Kaedon]

Ha. It's not according to Enzo, it's according to Enzo according to Kaedon.
Again, you either didn't read my initial post, lack basic comprehension skills, are putting words in my mouth and doing what ever you can to cling to whatever it is you're trying t cling to.


I don't know where you're getting these absurdities to try and pad your argument You've put so many words in my mouth that I clearly covered in my initial post, but I guess when you fail to grasp a concept or have a decent rebuttal, you do what you gotta. So you can keep with the "according to Enzo" but you need to also put "this is how Kaedon comprehended what Enzo clearly typed and covered all bases in his initial post. Such as:





And of course neither Austin, Rock nor Hogan have been featured attractions for over eight years. Hmmm...

I can continue to list the instances of you putting words in my mouth for the convenience of your awful arguments or your contradictions, but it's just easier to say you don't have a grasp on the words "heat", "carry" and "draw". And that's the last of this.

That's all well and good, but you also said when the company is the only game in town, individual players don't matter, right? So if that's the case, again, the Hogan era was emblematic of the "brand" of the WWF just like now supposedly with Cena as once again, they are the only game in town.

You can try and twist out of it all you want, but you still haven't acknowledged this huge flaw in your logic.


And MS, after watching Raw last night, I saw Miz get heat at the end of his promo and that's about it. Contrast that to CM Punk who had to wait a few seconds before he could even talk because people were booing the second his music hit, and you see, once again, that Miz isn't nearly as over as you give him credit for.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Yes, I saw Miz and Cena lurking on Saturday night, so that is probably when they got the material for their promo.

I mean, I wasn't being sarcastic in the slightest...

...they literally chose our forums of all forums and discussion sites to find material for their promos...




...just saying... it was rather coincidental we have these discussions going on and they address nearly every sentence of it in their face-off >_>...

 

[Axis]

Do not fall back sarcasm, and then go further in backing up your claim.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Do not fall back sarcasm, and then go further in backing up your claim.

...clearly >_> doesn't denote sarcasm here...

 

[seX-Power]

Do not fall back sarcasm, and then go further in backing up your claim.

lol

 

[Veritas]

That's all well and good, but you also said when the company is the only game in town, individual players don't matter, right? So if that's the case, again, the Hogan era was emblematic of the "brand" of the WWF just like now supposedly with Cena as once again, they are the only game in town.

Do you like know nothing about wrestling in the '80s? At all? Vince's national expansion didn't really start until the mid '80s and didn't pick up steam until the late '80s. Most of the top territories existed throughout the '80s, just minus their top stars as Vince raided them. Even at the close of the decade, you had WWF, WCW, AWA, USWA, WCCW, and others I'm most likely missing. The reason the WWF was so popular and the most successful at the time was because of Hogan.

The reason the WWF pulled ahead of their only national competition in the late '90s, WCW, was because of Austin.

There are a billion other problems with your logic but this is the only one I cared to point out now. It's the only one I won't have to get in a circle of redundancy with you over, Enzo seems to be doing fine there. LMAO.

 

[Kaedon]

So when Hogan was high on the hog, in the mid 80s, who was the only game in town? What fed was every huge star trying to get to? What was the only promotion with regular national TV coverage? Oh yeah.....But no, in the mid 80s, the USWA and the AWA were in direct competition with the WWF....

 

[Veritas]

What was the only promotion with regular national TV coverage? Oh yeah.....But no, in the mid 80s, the USWA and the AWA were in direct competition with the WWF....

Um.....again, DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WRESTLING???

Even when you (attempt to) discredit everything else, WCW was on national television in the '80s. TBS was a national station, one of the first, and wrestling in some form had ALWAYS been on it until Kellner pulled the plug. Whether it be JCP or Georgia Championship, there was an alternative to the WWF on TBS throughout the '80s.

And yeah, genius, the AWA WAS on a national station, maybe you've heard of ESPN? As a matter of fact, ESPN Classic STILL shows those old AWA tapes a few times a week to this day.

As for the other companies - WCCW wasn't on a national station but they did still engage in the old syndication format by sending their tapes out to various stations and airing well outside of their home area. WCCW was actually extremely successful overseas through tape trading, moreso than they were in the US to be honest.

Why was SuperClash III created as a gigantic PPV show featuring performers from the AWA, CWA, and WCCW? Because all 3 companies were in direct competition with the proven King of PPV (the WWF) and were trying to join the market Vince had opened up.

But no, you're right, Vince never had any competition in his takeover of wrestling in America. He just woke up one day, bought the company from his father, went to bed, and woke up again as the unquestioned lord and master of American wrestling. He didn't flirt with bankruptcy before WrestleMania I, he didn't go through all sorts of underhanded backstage dealings to pry talent away from the competition, he didn't do anything. Just one day he was an announcer and the next he was the owner of the biggest wrestling company in the world. Right.....

If it were that easy, why hasn't there been any real competition since Bischoff & Co ran WCW into the ground?

Anyhow, I'm done "debating" with you because, unlike some of the others around here, I do get tired of pointing out the exact same things over and over and over. It must be nice to be able to just rewrite history and ignore the most obvious crowd reactions to suit your own half assed ideas of what's going on in wrestling.

When you decide to come out of fantasy land and join the rest of us in the real world, I'll be glad to continue the discussion.

 

[Kaedon]

TBS and ESPN? Yeah, I forgot 90% of people had cable like they do now, back in the 80s. What are you Blue?