What must be the ingredients of a five-star match?

[Zardnaar]

Meltzer is likely biased against WWE in regards to 5 star matches especially since WCW died. He seemed to like Bret and Shawn.

I have not seen some of Meltzers other 5 star matches but the WWF/E matches he has awarded them to do deserve them. There are only maybe 2 other matches I would award them to (Shawn vs Undertaker).

In addition to what some of the others have said you need chemistry between the wrestlers as well. I would also add you can rememebr the match 20 years later. For example I remember these ones.

Owen vs Bret
Kanes debut
Austin and Hart double turn with Austin passing out bleeding.
Razor Ramon/HBK ladder match.

Those are the classic matches of the 90's IMHO.

 

[Shayon]

Meltzer is many things... ity:

Is Meltzer's rating of the punk vs cena match from raw justified? He only gave it a 4.5, how would u think?

 

[Mr. Roman Empire]

Obviously the talent and performance in the match needs to be on point. But also the storyline leading up has to be epic and treated as bascially the moment important match of their careers (titles, retirements, etc)

 

[Shayon]

Meltzer is likely biased against WWE in regards to 5 star matches especially since WCW died. He seemed to like Bret and Shawn.

I have not seen some of Meltzers other 5 star matches but the WWF/E matches he has awarded them to do deserve them. There are only maybe 2 other matches I would award them to (Shawn vs Undertaker).

In addition to what some of the others have said you need chemistry between the wrestlers as well. I would also add you can rememebr the match 20 years later. For example I remember these ones.

Owen vs Bret
Kanes debut
Austin and Hart double turn with Austin passing out bleeding.
Razor Ramon/HBK ladder match.

Those are the classic matches of the 90's IMHO.

What do you think about the punk vs cena match from raw? That was "the match" for me though,

 

[Shayon]

Obviously the talent and performance in the match needs to be on point. But also the storyline leading up has to be epic and treated as bascially the moment important match of their careers (titles, retirements, etc)

How'd u book such a match?

 

[Zardnaar]

What do you think about the punk vs cena match from raw? That was "the match" for me though,

Have not seen it. A 4.5 rating from Meltzer is still a really high rating though.

Put it this way I like AJ a lot and the guy can more or less put out 4 star matches on demand. he beat Cena clean at Summer Slam in a great match. I would not give it 5 starts though (maybe 4.5?).

Some of those older matches might not have the impact if watched now but back in the 90's they had things like a build up to it. For example Kanes debut had been brewing for 6 months, the Own/Bret thing had been a slow build and Austins official turn had been building for months since 1996's King of the RIng.

So you need a great build to a 5 star build, a great match and a great result that has a payoff story line wise.

Razor, HBK ladder match might be tame now with things like Foleys Hell in a Cell but in 1993 it was unheard of at least in the WWE.

I would not give Rock/Austin at WM X17 a 5 star match because neither one was really a great technical wrestler, the Rocks move set is actually fairly simplistic Austin was better before his injury.

They had the charisma but lacked a but in the actual wrestling skills. Meltzer is very old school in the way he rates his matches, looking at some of his 4.75 ratings and similar ones its full of Bret Hart, Miichaels, AJ Styles, Chris Jericho, Benoit all of which are some of the best technical wrestlers WWE has ever had combined with charisma and performance.

Put simply Meltzer likes his wrasslin over sports entertainment hence his list is top heavy with NWA and Japan matches. WCW (NWA remnant) in the 90's caught on because they were offering better matches than WWF at the time (Cruiserweights for example).

The lack of Star Power the WWE has had over the last decade, the PG era and Cena not being as good as some of the others has probably explained WWE's relative lack of 5 star matches.

Cena was booked as superman, makes the emotional payoff harder to achieve to hit the 5 stars and a side effect of Cena being booked so strong was its hard to develop another superstar on his level let alone going over like Austin/Rock/HBK.

Meltzers list also makes more sense if you are a wrestling fan over a WWE fan, other companies can actually put on a good match one of the better matches this year I saw was actually at TNA and if you see some of AJ's older work at TNA WWE does kind of look bad.

I'm not that familiar with Japan wrestling but I still look up old NWA/WCW/TNA matches on youtube every now and then to check out what happened that I missed.

 

[Shayon]

Have not seen it. A 4.5 rating from Meltzer is still a really high rating though.

Put it this way I like AJ a lot and the guy can more or less put out 4 star matches on demand. he beat Cena clean at Summer Slam in a great match. I would not give it 5 starts though (maybe 4.5?).

Some of those older matches might not have the impact if watched now but back in the 90's they had things like a build up to it. For example Kanes debut had been brewing for 6 months, the Own/Bret thing had been a slow build and Austins official turn had been building for months since 1996's King of the RIng.

So you need a great build to a 5 star build, a great match and a great result that has a payoff story line wise.

Razor, HBK ladder match might be tame now with things like Foleys Hell in a Cell but in 1993 it was unheard of at least in the WWE.

I would not give Rock/Austin at WM X17 a 5 star match because neither one was really a great technical wrestler, the Rocks move set is actually fairly simplistic Austin was better before his injury.

They had the charisma but lacked a but in the actual wrestling skills. Meltzer is very old school in the way he rates his matches, looking at some of his 4.75 ratings and similar ones its full of Bret Hart, Miichaels, AJ Styles, Chris Jericho, Benoit all of which are some of the best technical wrestlers WWE has ever had combined with charisma and performance.

The lack of Star Power the WWE has had over the last decade, the PG era and Cena not being as good as some of the others has probably explained WWE's relative lack of 5 star matches.

Cena was booked as superman, makes the emotional payoff harder to achieve to hit the 5 stars and a side ffect of Cena being booked so strong was its hard to develop another superstar on his level let alone going over like Austin/Rock/HBK.

Thanx for sharing your thoughts, also, u must see the punk vs cena match from raw 2013, it's super technical wrestling,, and, what should be the in ring work in a 5 star match?

 

[Shayon]

And for the facts, Meltzer's latest 5 star rating of a WWE match was way back in 2011 at money in the bank, ironically that match was punk vs cena too,

 

[Shayon]

And for the facts, Meltzer's latest 5 star rating of a WWE match was way back in 2011 at money in the bank, ironically that match was punk vs cena too,

 

[Zardnaar]

And for the facts, Meltzer's latest 5 star rating of a WWE match was way back in 2011 at money in the bank, ironically that match was punk vs cena too,

I'm not that familiar with Cena's work and I have not seen a single CM Punk match.

Cena from what I have seen can actually wrestle very well so no surprise he has a 5 star match. CM Punk I only know by reputation. I missed that entire era.

As I said it has been 20+ years and I still rememebr those 90's matches the only other ones I remember that much are things like Hogan vs Warrior in 1991 or matches so bad you remember them decades later (Untertaker vs Gonzalez WM IX).

Where you draw the line between a 4.5 and a 5 I have no idea. As i said Meltzer has been around a long time and he likes his wrasslin and Japanese stuff. The 1990's 5 star matches had a prolonged feud/build to them of 6 months to a year so there is that.

At the time Austins 5 star match double turn with Bret was an OMG type moment.

You can make a great match with certain wrestlers almost any time (AJ for example) but there is something that puts a 5 star match over the top.I would argue its a combination of build up, pay off, technical performance, hitting the spots, charisma of the stars, performance of the stars and impact of the match.

Kane/Undertaker were front and centre for say 2 years, the Own/Bret thing was a year, Razor/HBK ladder match was unique at the time. Kanes debut was the 1st or 2nd HIAC match, Austins/Bret double turn also had a massive impact (along with Hogan going heel in 1996 in a ok match).

I think its a combination of factors including being in the right place at the right time.

4/5 of the matches were not generic wrestling matches- submission, cage, HIAC and a ladder match. And they were early in those matches arrival in WWF so they were new to see. Well cage matches were not new in 1993/94 but they were rare in WWE.

You well also note Meltzer did not give WCW any 5 stars after they went from Wrasslin in 1992 to sports entertainment by 1994.

 

[Black Iron PJ]

Have the crowd chant "5 Star Match" really loudly while Dave Meltzer is in attendance.

 

[Shayon]

I'm not that familiar with Cena's work and I have not seen a single CM Punk match.

Cena from what I have seen can actually wrestle very well so no surprise he has a 5 star match. CM Punk I only know by reputation. I missed that entire era.

As I said it has been 20+ years and I still rememebr those 90's matches the only other ones I remember that much are things like Hogan vs Warrior in 1991 or matches so bad you remember them decades later (Untertaker vs Gonzalez WM IX).

Where you draw the line between a 4.5 and a 5 I have no idea. As i said Meltzer has been around a long time and he likes his wrasslin and Japanese stuff. The 1990's 5 star matches had a prolonged feud/build to them of 6 months to a year so there is that.

At the time Austins 5 star match double turn with Bret was an OMG type moment.

You can make a great match with certain wrestlers almost any time (AJ for example) but there is something that puts a 5 star match over the top.I would argue its a combination of build up, pay off, technical performance, hitting the spots, charisma of the stars, performance of the stars and impact of the match.

Kane/Undertaker were front and centre for say 2 years, the Own/Bret thing was a year, Razor/HBK ladder match was unique at the time. Kanes debut was the 1st or 2nd HIAC match, Austins/Bret double turn also had a massive impact (along with Hogan going heel in 1996 in a ok match).

I think its a combination of factors including being in the right place at the right time.

4/5 of the matches were not generic wrestling matches- submission, cage, HIAC and a ladder match. And they were early in those matches arrival in WWF so they were new to see.

Yeah, Cena sure can wrestle so well, in 2015 during his us open Challenge section on every week on raw, he used to give classic matches every single week on raw, also on elimination chamber 2015, mitb, and summerslam 2016 he showed us how technical he is,

 

[Shayon]

Have the crowd chant "5 Star Match" really loudly while Dave Meltzer is in attendance.

Hahaha, maybe we'll get a DUD rating

 

[edge4ever]

yeah, but if u were a booker, how'd u book a match, to make it get a 5 star rating?

Anything with aj styles....

 

[edge4ever]

In all honesty, 5 star matches are handed to the top guys that WWE is pushing. Sure, they have to be talented enough to handle what that entails. But, a 5 star match usually doesn't pan out like any other match ever does. It consists of 2 bigger, made superstars, a built feud, a match with 2-3 bigger spots, a match that's like at least 30 mins long, and, most importantly, a match that's back and forth throughout.

You can take that formula and make a 5 star match with nearly anything. Cena was given the option to be able to have matches like that during his runs as well because he's the top dog and always needs look enduring and never quitting.