what heel turn did you enjoy more

[hbkfan]

hulk hogan bash at the beach 96

steve austin wrestlemania 17



im kind of impartial to the austin turn myself i was never a hogan or nwo fan especially after it got waterd down with like the whole wcw roster in the nwo. i enjoyed the 2 man power trip thing with austin and hhh till hunter got hurt.

 

[str8edgepunk]

I didn't watch wrestling during 96 so I'm going to say Austin WM17.

 

[straight_edge76]

From a personal standpoint I would have to say Austin. Even though he said on his DVD that he wished that he never did it, I really enojoyed paranoid heel Austin and the Two Man Power Trip was one of my favorite Alliances ever, it's just too bad it got cut short.

But, for most overall impact in the buisness Hogan takes the cake. The biggest face at the time turning heel and starting A "New World Order" still has got to be one of the most shocking moments in wrestling history. If it wasn't for that angle I highly doubt that wCw would have lasted as long as it did.

 

[FabulousRougeauBrother]

Hogan by far. One of the most pivotal moments in wrestling history.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

This is actually pretty tough. Hogan's heel run was so awesome, but it got old fast with him basically squashing everyone he faced for a year and a half, only losing twice, to Luger and Piper.

Austin's run was awesome. He was vicious, he was funny, and he showed he could be vulnerable, which was a huge turn off with Hogan's heel run since he'd ALWAYS have the nWo bail him out some how and it got predictable. Plus Austin had such an amazing run in 2001. His 2001 is probably one of the best years a worker has ever had, it's up there with HBK in 96-97 as the best run in my lifetime.

 

[Jon Honcho]

This should be in the classic section.

Without a doubt it's Hogan's turn. The internet and rumors weren't as accessible as it is now so it was a surprise. It also helped change the landscape of pro wrestling and brought in another spike in fans and ratings. Austin's run was fuckin pathetic and desperate at best. His best matches as a heel were with Kurt Angle but then again, whose best matches aren't with Kurt?

 

[Lady Redfield]

I think the best ever was Hogan just because he was such a fucking hero in the 80's, the face of all that was good, the guy telling kids to say their prayers and take their vitamins, and then he grows a shadow and fucking pisses all over everything that is good.


Fuck yes.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

This should be in the classic section.

Without a doubt it's Hogan's turn. The internet and rumors weren't as accessible as it is now so it was a surprise. It also helped change the landscape of pro wrestling and brought in another spike in fans and ratings. Austin's run was fuckin pathetic and desperate at best. His best matches as a heel were with Kurt Angle but then again, whose best matches aren't with Kurt?

Are you insinuating that Angle carried Austin? Are you serious? No one, absolutely no one carried Austin at any time during his WWE run. Not Bret, not Rocky, and certainly not a Kurt Angle who was only a year and a half into his career. If anything, Austin carried Kurt, it was Kurt's first really good match that he wasn't carried in. Benoit and Jericho carried him in those feuds for the Euro and IC titles in 2000. Angle wasn't that good in 2001 and even at his best, he isn't carrying Austin. Austin/Hart @ WM 13 and Austin/Rock WM 17 are wiely considered the greatest WWF matches ever, and as many great matches Angle has had, his matches really don't touch those. His best WWE matches are against HBK and Benoit, and those guys are/were better than Angle, so what does that say about Kurt?

Honcho, you're a good newbie, but do you really know what "carry" means? In the Morgan thread you think X Pac carried Kane. Not true. And you're saying here that Angle is the reason Steve Fuckin Austin had a good match. Bullshit, Austin put on a streak of awesomeness in 2001 that Angle can't match in any year of his career. He had 4 1/2 star matches with Trips and Rock, had a solid 4 star triple threat against Benoit and Jericho, gave Angle the best matches of his young career and had the three best singles matches on free tv in 2001 against Jericho, Benoit and Regal. Then he had another nice triple threat against Angle and RVD and he was calling that match, and finished the year by putting Jericho over for the undisputed title. Angle, in all his awesomeness can't claim anything like that. And he certainly NEVER, ever carried Austin or was responsible for Steve having a good match, it's the other way around. That Austin match moved Angle out of the goofy comedic aura he had surrounding him and it made him legit in fans eyes. And it was all due to Austin.

 

[The Rated "R" Superstar]

Hogan. Not even close! Some of you were waaaay too young to know about this but I seriously got pissed the fuck off at what was coming through the TV that night. Pissed/a little excited because I was around 12 years old at the time and was starting to realize the inner workings of the wrestling business and knew that this was PURE GOLD at the time. The Austin turn didn't hit me as hard. It just didn't seem quite as out of the blue. Yes it was unexpected, but come on! It's freakin HULK HOGAN! AS A BAD GUY! No one.....NO ONE saw that coming.

 

[Jon Honcho]

Are you insinuating that Angle carried Austin? Are you serious?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Austin was never a great wrestler and he admitted that on his dvd. Being carried in a match isn't necessarily an insult. It mean that Austin was a brawler and Hart and Angle were technical. The Survivor Series match from 1996 proves Hart was a better wrestler than Austin.

Honcho, you're a good newbie, but do you really know what "carry" means? In the Morgan thread you think X Pac carried Kane. Not true. And you're saying here that Angle is the reason Steve Fuckin Austin had a good match. Bullshit, Austin put on a streak of awesomeness in 2001 that Angle can't match in any year of his career. He had 4 1/2 star matches with Trips and Rock, had a solid 4 star triple threat against Benoit and Jericho, gave Angle the best matches of his young career and had the three best singles matches on free tv in 2001 against Jericho, Benoit and Regal. Then he had another nice triple threat against Angle and RVD and he was calling that match, and finished the year by putting Jericho over for the undisputed title. Angle, in all his awesomeness can't claim anything like that. And he certainly NEVER, ever carried Austin or was responsible for Steve having a good match, it's the other way around. That Austin match moved Angle out of the goofy comedic aura he had surrounding him and it made him legit in fans eyes. And it was all due to Austin.

I was going to multi-quote this too but everything is covered. You said 2001 was all Austin but then followed by saying Angle was awesome too so I'm not sure what you mean. I said Austin sucked as a heel character. He wasn't good at playing the scared heel.

Kurt FUCKING Angle continues to be in five star classics. Every year he has at least one. Mr. Anderson this year, Jarrett last year, Jarrett and two with AJ in 2008, Samoa Joe in 2007 and 2006, Undie in 2006. As far as a great year you covered that already.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Austin was never a great wrestler and he admitted that on his dvd. Being carried in a match isn't necessarily an insult. It mean that Austin was a brawler and Hart and Angle were technical. The Survivor Series match from 1996 proves Hart was a better wrestler than Austin.



I was going to multi-quote this too but everything is covered. You said 2001 was all Austin but then followed by saying Angle was awesome too so I'm not sure what you mean. I said Austin sucked as a heel character. He wasn't good at playing the scared heel.

Kurt FUCKING Angle continues to be in five star classics. Every year he has at least one. Mr. Anderson this year, Jarrett last year, Jarrett and two with AJ in 2008, Samoa Joe in 2007 and 2006, Undie in 2006. As far as a great year you covered that already.

Austin "admitting" he wasn't a great wrestler is why he is on a level all of his own, he's humble. That's why no one will ever have to worry about this guy making ten thousand come backs or ever burying people in interviews. Being a great wrestler doesn't mean he has to be technical. That's an over used term these days, especially applying them to Bret Hart, what was so technical about Bret? Having the same match every night? Applying ONE submission hold? He wasn't technical. Angle, Benoit, Flair, Dory Funk, Thesz, Jack Brisco...those are/were technical wrestlers. And what did Bret prove in their Survivor Series match? Absolutely nothing. How can you say he was carried. Go watch Bret's dvd, he compliments Austin and even calls him an excellent worker. So, moot point on Austin humbling himself.

Notice how I said Angle was awesome, but not in 2001, selective comprehension isn't going to substantiate any of your arguments. Angle really didn't come into his own until 2002 after his series with Edge. He was somewhat carried by Austin, he wasn't carrying the best worker in the company in 2001 and there is zero evidence to the contrary, that's just an absurdity.

And of all those TNA Angle matches you listed, NONE of them even come close to Angle/HBK or Angle/Benoit, let alone calling them 5 star classics is ridiculous. And I'm sorry, those matches with Jarrett and Anderson 5 star classics??!! Pffttt...4 stars for the Anderson match and that's being generous to say the least and 3 1/2 stars in the Jarrett match at very best. His AJ and Joe matches are 4 stars too, but they are great, indeed. But it's bogus to call any of them on the level of Angle/HBK or Kurt/Benoit. Not even close.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Austin was never a great wrestler and he admitted that on his dvd. Being carried in a match isn't necessarily an insult. It mean that Austin was a brawler and Hart and Angle were technical. The Survivor Series match from 1996 proves Hart was a better wrestler than Austin.



I was going to multi-quote this too but everything is covered. You said 2001 was all Austin but then followed by saying Angle was awesome too so I'm not sure what you mean. I said Austin sucked as a heel character. He wasn't good at playing the scared heel.

Kurt FUCKING Angle continues to be in five star classics. Every year he has at least one. Mr. Anderson this year, Jarrett last year, Jarrett and two with AJ in 2008, Samoa Joe in 2007 and 2006, Undie in 2006. As far as a great year you covered that already.

Austin "admitting" he wasn't a great wrestler is why he is on a level all of his own, he's humble. That's why no one will ever have to worry about this guy making ten thousand come backs or ever burying people in interviews. Being a great wrestler doesn't mean he has to be technical. That's an over used term these days, especially applying them to Bret Hart, what was so technical about Bret? Having the same match every night? Applying ONE submission hold? He wasn't technical. Angle, Benoit, Flair, Dory Funk, Thesz, Jack Brisco...those are/were technical wrestlers. And what did Bret prove in their Survivor Series match? Absolutely nothing. How can you say he was carried. Go watch Bret's dvd, he compliments Austin and even calls him an excellent worker. So, moot point on Austin humbling himself.

Notice how I said Angle was awesome, but not in 2001, selective comprehension isn't going to substantiate any of your arguments. Angle really didn't come into his own until 2002 after his series with Edge. He was somewhat carried by Austin, he wasn't carrying the best worker in the company in 2001 and there is zero evidence to the contrary, that's just an absurdity.

And of all those TNA Angle matches you listed, NONE of them even come close to Angle/HBK or Angle/Benoit, let alone calling them 5 star classics is ridiculous. And I'm sorry, those matches with Jarrett and Anderson 5 star classics??!! Pffttt...4 stars for the Anderson match and that's being generous to say the least and 3 1/2 stars in the Jarrett match at very best. His AJ and Joe matches are 4 stars too, but they are great, indeed. But it's bogus to call any of them on the level of Angle/HBK or Kurt/Benoit. Not even close.

 

[straight_edge76]

this may be a bit of a left field statement about Austin, but I feel it's true. Austin's best matches imo were with better techincal wrestlers, Benoit, Hart, Angle etc. Mainly because even though Austin was never a great technician he was an awesome worker overall. Sure, he was a pure brawler but I think that in his feud with Hart especially his brawling and Bret's techincal skills made for some of the best matches of both of their carrers, not saying that they are in fact the best, but they are atleast some of my favorites, the WM 13 match is honestly my favorite match of all time.

But, it wasn't like Austin couldn't wrestle. I remember some of his matches with Benoit and Jericho where the younger, more technical Austin came out, sure it was never at a Benoit or Jericho level, but he was able to get by on brawling and minimal technical skills.

 

[...god...]

Such a stupid argument. Anyone can wrestle technical style in PROFESSIONAL, FAKE WRESTLING, idiots. People need to understand this. Wrestling should be judged on a PERFORMANCE level, not if someone can do a german suplex and be automatically considered 'GOOD WRESTLER!!'. Austin was a fucking amazing performer, and still probably is. I love Angle, but insinuating he carried Austin is asinine. They were both great workers and had tremendous matches AND some of the best and classic promos of all time. Angle has attributed a lot of his success to Austin (and Rock) as well if you listened to his interviews. As far as better turn, Hogan's was obviously the bigger HOLY SHIT shock one. But as far as severely underrated and the aftermath, it's all fucking Austin. His heel run is so god damn underlooked, sigh. He was absolutely fucking gold, I literally go back and watch some of his promos just to laugh my ass off. I do that for almost no one else. I would consider him one of the greatest heels of all time, it would be only be debated for the fact that he didn't get to play it out for long enough, but god damn, for the amount of time he did it was BRILLIANCE.
"MY NAME IS STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN AND I DO NOT DESERVE THIS!" All the treating Debra like shit, running from The Undertaker, ANY interaction between him and Angle, coming out and beating up Michael Cole for insulting Vince lololol. DEBRA, GET MY BAGS!

 

[Chuck Taylor's Grenade]

Regarding Austin calling all his matches if memory serves correct he says in his book that he's half deaf so he always called his matches. And secondly Austin is one of the best workers we've seen in a long time. Note I said worker and not wrestler (although Austin was quite gifted as a technical wrestler) A good worker can wrestle anybody on the roster no matter their style and make them look good. Look at the multitude of people he had matches against and made look good or better. Look at his ECW run. He made Sandman and Mikey Whipreck look good for God's sake.