The Streak 2012

[nation]

It looks like you don't even know your Rude or even your Jake Roberts. You mostly know your shit but come on man, if you say/act like you know all this I obviously shouldn't have had to go through that long ass explanation. If you are testing my knowledge on these guys and wrestling, I'm certainly not the most knowledgeable and never claimed to be. A few of you here have me beat but I mostly know my shit and I've studied promotions and I don't know how many guys.

You really want to talk about underrated now? One fucking name, Brian F'n Pillman. All of his Loose Cannon shit was awesome, he was WAY before his time, the Hollywood Blondes were one of the best WCW tag teams of all time, he helped create and define the crusierweight division which is now sadly gone. He was always a solid face during his Flyin' Brian days who really had the chance to have done more at the time but he made it as crusierweight champion so I guess I won't complain.

 

[...god...]

Am I saying Rude's work as heel was superior to Roberts' work as heel? Hell no but again Rude was always a heel and always an amazing heel.

Then wouldn't that mean Rude is NOT the better heel... Basically your arguement is, Rude was a heel longer, thus he is the better heel. Stupid, just stupid.

Also, for what it's worth Jake Roberts had FAR more memorable promos than Rude.

 

[nation]

How is that stupid? and no that's not my complete argument but you can't deny quantity with just as good quality as nothing. That would be stupid. That quantity has created more great feuds as a heel from Rude versus Roberts. Roberts definitely played one of the best psycho heels ever but Rude is the definition of a heel. Rude got heat like few guys ever could. Rude always has one of the most memorable lines and introduction with how we would introduce himself and insult the audience. Pure genius as heel, Roberts was great but Rude is a better hell.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

Rude never had a memorable promo. His Nitro promo is memorable not because of the promo itself, but he was on BOTH shows in the midst of the most important era of wrestling. If a cake looks good because of the fondant and decorations, but when you taste it and realize the cake itself is just average, you still have an average cake that just looks good and that's why it was a memorable cake.

 

[...god...]

How does quantity mean anything? Edge was heel for years and years and years, but Austin was still by far the better heel. Someone who's good for a long time is in no way better than someone's who's great for a short time since the one who is great for the short time has obviously mastered it.

 

[nation]

Rude never had a memorable promo. His Nitro promo is memorable not because of the promo itself, but he was on BOTH shows in the midst of the most important era of wrestling. If a cake looks good because of the fondant and decorations, but when you taste it and realize the cake itself is just average, you still have an average cake that just looks good and that's why it was a memorable cake.

Wow, way for both of you to completely avoid and not touch half my points and subjects. Rude never had a memorable promo? A memorable promo is a memorable promo. That promo Cena had in 2010 about saying goodbye was memorable despite how it all ending up being pointless, an epic fail and worthless. How many memorable promos does Roberts have? Yeah....while Roberts was great on the mic he never cut anything that is really legendary and stands out today like HBK's I lost my smile speech, Punk's promo last year that created a flood of hype, Edge's retirement speech, etc. Memorable promos are promos that are legendary and still talked about today. Doesn't matter that the promo Rude had on Nitro was average, it's still more memorable than any Roberts promo. It's cheap since it was a huge moment in the monday night wars but if you're really going to go this route and say he had nothing memorable over or against Roberts, you can't deny it.

How about how Rude carried Warrior to one of his best matches ever? Roberts never did that. How about how Rude was on the brink of being one of the top guys and heels alongside Ric fucking Flair? and how during Vader's run at the top, Rude was always one of the top heels right behind Vader. If Sting hadn't ended his career, Rude would have made it huge. It was all coming together, he was already a top guy/heel in WCW and was on the verge of being at the very top.

Roberts best heel work was during his feud with Savage, that shit was brilliant. He had great work and a great feud with Steamboat too but everything else he did wasn't as good and didn't have the impact of those two feuds. It may be unfair to use Warrior/Roberts in the argument but it doesn't matter. Sure it got killed off because Warrior was fired but Rude during his feud with Warrior carried him to one of his best matches. So the bottom line is that Roberts never did that.

Like you completely didn't even mention again which is ironic considering this debate is the whole feud between Rude/Roberts when Rude did some of the best heel work ever. It was all genius and was one of the most personally and heated rivalries ever. Back to their overall work versus each other though, like I mentioned Roberts had awesome work with Savage and Steamboat but his feud with Warrior was killed off and his program with Taker while good wasn't anything really amazing.

Jake's time in WCW was all forgetful besides his debut. He didn't do anything memorable/accomplish anything there while again, Rude was a top guy and on the verge of making it bigger. Sure he got a win over Sting but I doubt many people even know that because his whole time in the company was forgetful. On the same topic of Sting, Rude beat him for the US belt in a huge victory and one of the biggest wins of his career. So to sum some things up, two easy comparisons to make on the subject of Roberts/Rude is their work with two guys they both feuded with against Warrior and Sting. Kinda ironic again in a way since Warrior and Sting were great friends and had their time together as a tag team but back on subject, Rude KILLED it with Warrior and Sting. I really hate repeating myself so I'll mention this once more, Rude carried Warrior to one of his best matches in a rare elite group and he beat Sting to win the US belt and still stands today as the second longest reigning US champ only behind Luger. He was forced to vacate to injury which is obviously worth a mention since who knows what would have happened had he not got injured. If only Rude had not suffered a career ending injury, he would have made it huge.

This is all getting a bit redundant with you forcing me to repeat myself but I'm about it done and hopefully you catch everything this time. Now, I'll sum up all of the rest and try to make this easy. Quantity does matter because it's more work with still always excellent quality thanks to Rude. Rude had many great feuds as a heel while Roberts had a few amazing feuds, great feuds during his time as a face and sadly a few feuds that never got the chance to take off. Rick had so many feuds as a heel it's not easy to just select his greatest work since he was always an amazing heel and has so much work to his name, however his feuds with Roberts, Sting, Steamboat and Warrior are the obvious mentions. Rude was one of the greatest Intercontinental champions and United States champions, something Roberts sure as hell can't say. Rude was going to be NWA champion until WCW and NWA both parted ways but no real world title or not with the International belt, he was a top guy during the time.

Finally, Rude was a top heel in several promotions. WCW, NWA, WWF, WCCW, etc. So in my final conclusion, yes Rude WAS a better heel than Roberts.

If you still want to defend Hennig or go back to that, I can definitely rip that shit to shreds.

 

[nation]

How does quantity mean anything? Edge was heel for years and years and years, but Austin was still by far the better heel. Someone who's good for a long time is in no way better than someone's who's great for a short time since the one who is great for the short time has obviously mastered it.

Holy shit, talk about overrating and being an Austin fanboy. Fuck no, Austin is overall is better than Edge but by far the better heel? What? Isn't Austin that same guy who was pussified during his singing, hugging, always protecting Vince McMahon who was his biggest rival besides Rock, days? Just no....Austin was an amazing heel before he blew up and a great heel back in WCW but Edge blew up as a fucking heel, led Cena to his greatest feud, carried SD for years and he was the top heel on RAW during his blow up. I'm really not going to list of all the great feuds/accomplishments Edge had as a heel. That was probably the dumbest shit I've ever heard you say, G1. Love Austin and he is definitely overall better than Edge and sure as hell was LEAGUES ahead of Edge as a face but as a heel? Get the fuck out of here...

 

[Airfixx]

Nation your arguments are awful.

 

[nation]

Nation your arguments are awful.

This is coming from you? Lmao. I remember when we argued, you had the worst argument ever. You just think it's cool to dickride everybody else and agree with them when I made logical points and discussion. How the fuck are those not logical points? Yeah, go dickride some more.

 

[...god...]

Holy shit, talk about overrating and being an Austin fanboy. Fuck no, Austin is overall is better than Edge but by far the better heel? What? Isn't Austin that same guy who was pussified during his singing, hugging, always protecting Vince McMahon who was his biggest rival besides Rock, days? Just no....Austin was an amazing heel before he blew up and a great heel back in WCW but Edge blew up as a fucking heel, led Cena to his greatest feud, carried SD for years and he was the top heel on RAW during his blow up. I'm really not going to list of all the great feuds/accomplishments Edge had as a heel. That was probably the dumbest shit I've ever heard you say, G1. Love Austin and he is definitely overall better than Edge and sure as hell was LEAGUES ahead of Edge as a face but as a heel? Get the fuck out of here...

Um, no, just no. Firstly, you realize Austin was a heel before 2001, right? You must have missed all of that work because it was sure as hell better than Edge doing the same old shit routine over and over again unless you prefer that since its easy on the attention span, repetitive, and boring and obviously by your standards, memorable. Playing the cowardly heel with a woman manager he was dating... yeah that hadn't been done before. His best feuds were with Cena/Taker. Secondly, he didn't become 'pussified' he still never ran away from a fight, he was basically the same with but the twist that he was aligned with Vince.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

Nation, even I can't write that much and fall so flat on my arguments.

I'll just say this.

*Stop hanging on to that "Rude gave Warrior one of his greatest matches". Warrior only had two great matches, one was with Hogan, the other with Savage. Hogan was slovenly, so he carrying Warrior would be something to hang on to. Rude was competent in the ring. It was an average match at BEST. Get over it.

*And saying Roberts didn't have any memorable promos? Are you serious? Guess who was expected to fill the void created when Piper vacationed and there was no Pipers Pit? Roberts. Why? Because Vince thought Roberts was the best talker by a far margin. When the greatest promoter of all time gives you that kind of endorsement, that holds water.

*And HBK's "I lost my smile" promo is memorable for all the wrong reasons. You can only pinpoint Rude being memorable for being simulcast. He was an ok talker, but to even compare him to Roberts, who almost everyone in the industry has praised as one of the best promos ever, is asinine.

*And why was Rude the no.2 heel? Because after no.2 the depth dropped the fuck off the face of the planet. Vader. Know what Roberts did faster in WCW than Rude ever did, get a main event after one month in the company. Goes to show who WCW thought was the bigger name.

*And I can tell you wiki'd some shit too. I don't care, best to be prepared like them boy scouts do. LMFAO. NWA Champion in 93 is like being the ECW Champ in 2009, it didn't mean shit.

I could continue to rip your terribly disguised and thinly veiled arguments apart, but honestly your just continuing for your own benefit. At the end of the day, it is what it is. Rude is a guy who was a great heel, average talker and could have gone a bit farther. Roberts is ridiculously influential, both directly and indirectly, one of the greatest heels, talkers and minds not only of his, but of ALL time. You can keep puffin up you chest. I don't care anymore.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

Um, no, just no. Firstly, you realize Austin was a heel before 2001, right? You must have missed all of that work because it was sure as hell better than Edge doing the same old shit routine over and over again unless you prefer that since its easy on the attention span, repetitive, and boring and obviously by your standards, memorable. Playing the cowardly heel with a woman manager he was dating... yeah that hadn't been done before. His best feuds were with Cena/Taker. Secondly, he didn't become 'pussified' he still never ran away from a fight, he was basically the same with but the twist that he was aligned with Vince.

Actually, Edge's main event heel persona is a rip off of Austin's 2001 heel turn. Both characters revolved around being champ. Austin's dynamic was just so much deeper because he was aligned with his greatest foe in what was the greatest feud of all time. Austin in 2001 is easily one of the greatest heel runs of all time. It's there with Vince, Hollywood, Piper (which is arguably the greatest of all time), Gorgeous George and the Freebirds. Edge was great, but at his best I don't associate him with the aforementioned names. It's not even HBK in 97 good.

 

[nation]

Nation, even I can't write that much and fall so flat on my arguments.

I'll just say this.

*Stop hanging on to that "Rude gave Warrior one of his greatest matches". Warrior only had two great matches, one was with Hogan, the other with Savage. Hogan was slovenly, so he carrying Warrior would be something to hang on to. Rude was competent in the ring. It was an average match at BEST. Get over it.

*And saying Roberts didn't have any memorable promos? Are you serious? Guess who was expected to fill the void created when Piper vacationed and there was no Pipers Pit? Roberts. Why? Because Vince thought Roberts was the best talker by a far margin. When the greatest promoter of all time gives you that kind of endorsement, that holds water.

*And HBK's "I lost my smile" promo is memorable for all the wrong reasons. You can only pinpoint Rude being memorable for being simulcast. He was an ok talker, but to even compare him to Roberts, who almost everyone in the industry has praised as one of the best promos ever, is asinine.

*And why was Rude the no.2 heel? Because after no.2 the depth dropped the fuck off the face of the planet. Vader. Know what Roberts did faster in WCW than Rude ever did, get a main event after one month in the company. Goes to show who WCW thought was the bigger name.

*And I can tell you wiki'd some shit too. I don't care, best to be prepared like them boy scouts do. LMFAO. NWA Champion in 93 is like being the ECW Champ in 2009, it didn't mean shit.

I could continue to rip your terribly disguised and thinly veiled arguments apart, but honestly your just continuing for your own benefit. At the end of the day, it is what it is. Rude is a guy who was a great heel, average talker and could have gone a bit farther. Roberts is ridiculously influential, both directly and indirectly, one of the greatest heels, talkers and minds not only of his, but of ALL time. You can keep puffin up you chest. I don't care anymore.

That's Blue logic, it was one of Warrior's best matches? Was it a classic? No but I never called it that. Did Roberts ever carry Warrior to one of his best matches? Did Roberts have a great feud with Sting which led to one of the longest US title reigns? Was Roberts a top heel in several different promotions? Was Roberts one of the greatest IC and US champs ever? No. Way to not touch any of those points, logical fucking points in an argument. Apparently a few of you here like to pretend that was never mentioned or out right ignore it because it doesn't do your argument any favors?

Personally, yeah Roberts did have amazing promos and he was one of the best talkers ever and he was a better talker than Rude, I never said he wasn't. I said he wasn't a better heel. But name some hugely memorable Roberts' promos. Rude was a better heel, one of the greatest heels ever. Roberts was one of the best psycho heels ever but how many fucking guys imitated, were inspired and influenced by his heel character? How many guys were inspired, influenced and tried to initiate Rick Rude? Fucking christ, you really already know this but let's throw out a bunch of names to prove my point. Val Venis(pornstar Rick Rude), Dolph Ziggler(Rockstar Rick Rude), Dashing Cody Rhodes, Chris Masters, Alberto Del Rio, Bobby Roode, Mark Jindrak, Buff Bagwell, etc, etc. Rick Rude influenced every fucking heel that followed after him really. Those are just a few guys who really took a lot of inspiration from him and a few who actually tried to imitate him. On a quick point about Hennig, while Hennig has always influenced/been imitated by many guys, there has been far more influence from Rick Rude. One reason why he was a better heel, look how many fucking guys attempted to be like him.

This whole argument is about who was the better heel, now you're switching subjects to talker? I never said Rude was a better talker, ever. You want that point? Fine you got it but it's reaching how you're switching subjects.

How the hell does it matter if Vader left? Fact is, Rude was a top guy and a top heel in WCW up until his career ending injury and again, he would have made it HUGE if Sting didn't end his career.

Uh what? What makes you conclude I wikied anything? I know when WCW and NWA parted ways and the whole circumstance with Rude becoming international champion. I'm well aware of it all. The NWA belt is one of the most prestigious belts in wrestling, it is still that same belt that Ric fucking Flair held at the peak of his career and that same guy was the same guy that Rude technically defeated to win the NWA belt but isn't recognized because of the NWA/WCW split. Was the International belt the most prestigious titles ever? No, never said it was but it was created from the NWA belt which Ric Flair was holding at the time. So it certainly meant something.

I guess you admit defeat again but I'll be fair and give you Vader and DiBiase out of your 5 even though we never argued about them. As for Hennig and Anderson though, get the fuck out. Love them both but hell no.

If you want this wrap this all up though, I want to be clear. I sure as hell wasn't saying Rude was a better talker or better than Roberts, he was a better heel. Kinda hard not to be when you're one of the most influential and imitated heels ever but yeah. Jake Roberts was one of the greatest talkers, characters and one of the few masters of psychology in the most elite fucking class. As for Anderson, he sure as hell is in top 3 most underrated guys ever who should be remembered for much more than just being in the Horsemen and being Ric Flair's best friend.

 

[nation]

Um, no, just no. Firstly, you realize Austin was a heel before 2001, right? You must have missed all of that work because it was sure as hell better than Edge doing the same old shit routine over and over again unless you prefer that since its easy on the attention span, repetitive, and boring and obviously by your standards, memorable. Playing the cowardly heel with a woman manager he was dating... yeah that hadn't been done before. His best feuds were with Cena/Taker. Secondly, he didn't become 'pussified' he still never ran away from a fight, he was basically the same with but the twist that he was aligned with Vince.

just no....Austin was an amazing heel before he blew up and a great heel back in WCW but Edge blew up as a fucking heel, led Cena to his greatest feud, carried SD for years and he was the top heel on RAW during his blow up.

?

Can anyone here not put words into the other persons argument? I never said Edge never got/did anything that wasn't repetitive, "easy on the attention span", incredibly memorable(I said the Rude promo on nitro was memorable not an epic legendary moment in the history of wrestling, really? Bad reaching, G1). Somehow beating up Hart every other week and constantly taunting and berating him has far less repetition than Edge repeating himself in anything? Really stupid argument. Who cares that Edge had Vickie and Lita around for awhile? Pretty sure Austin was keeping the same routine up until his 2001 turn. Edge played one of the best cowardly heels ever, his ultimate opportunist gimmick was genius. That goes with his gimmick and character, you can't knock that shit for repetition just like I won't knock Austin for any repetition because it all went with his character and was always epic and awesome. But it's just really stupid to knock Edge for repetition and he wasn't even always doing the same shit. Edge would beat the shit out of Cena a lot during their feud and berate him badly while in other feuds he played the classic cowardly ultimate opportunist role. Point is, Edge wasn't always doing the same shit and when he was it was due to his character. He did get a little stale on SD briefly but that's about it.

 

[nation]

Actually, Edge's main event heel persona is a rip off of Austin's 2001 heel turn. Both characters revolved around being champ. Austin's dynamic was just so much deeper because he was aligned with his greatest foe in what was the greatest feud of all time. Austin in 2001 is easily one of the greatest heel runs of all time. It's there with Vince, Hollywood, Piper (which is arguably the greatest of all time), Gorgeous George and the Freebirds. Edge was great, but at his best I don't associate him with the aforementioned names. It's not even HBK in 97 good.

So basically you're saying that every cowardly power hungry heel backed by anyone with stroke after the first guy who had that gimmick is a rip off by that logic? Right. Just so I don't get any more misunderstandings, I'm sure as hell not saying Austin's heel run in 2001 was bad. I was pissed when he turned on The Rock, it was great but hardly the most original thing ever and eventually you knew it was going to happen. But it kept one if not the greatest rivalry of all time fresh so I won't complain.

I've always been meaning to ask you about HBK btw, since you're his biggest mark I know.