The Political Thread

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Smart Marx

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I don't know what the interpretation is going to be. I don't know what he is basing it on.

Once again, us debating it means nothing.

The ruling is all that matters.
I’m not sure why you keep saying interpretation when the language of the 14th isn’t unclear.

Either this country means equal protections or it doesn’t. Not saying that it might not be ruled that way, but if it does, they intentionally disregarded an already established amendment, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and their own decision two years ago.
 

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I’m not sure why you keep saying interpretation when the language of the 14th isn’t unclear.

Either this country means equal protections or it doesn’t. Not saying that it might not be ruled that way, but if it does, they intentionally disregarded an already established amendment, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and their own decision two years ago.
That is why we have a Supreme Court. Their whole job is to interpret the Constitution in matters that is not laid out explicitly within the text.

You believe the 14th Amendment does that. Your opinion does not matter.

The Supreme Court's opinion is all that matters.

Thomas argued that using the due process clause to uphold these rights is a “legal fiction” that’s “particularly dangerous,” and believes the court should issue a ruling saying the court cannot grant civil rights using that legal argument.
Will his argument fly? We shall see.
 

Grimoire Lenin

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Yes. Straight people are allowed to get marry so you can’t deny that same law or protection to same sex attracted people.

And we already ruled separate but equal was discriminatory.
Using Brown vs. Board of Education and the 14th Amendment as bases for any future decision regarding Obergefell, you would think that it would be an easy slam-dunk. When speaking of the "equality" of "legal union" between two homosexuals and a marriage between two heterosexuals...

Brown vs. Board of Education dictates that Separate but Equal Education is discriminatory (and yet it still happens through diversionary funding from inner-city schools to predominantly white neighborhoods), but I'd argue by extension, it should make other institutions the same, including marriage, which as we have established, is a legal procedure in the United States of America.

Secondly, the 14th Amendment is not and should not be up for debate. The language itself is clear as crystal, as frank as Frankenstein, as blunt as an atom bomb. If the argument is that the 14th Amendment was in regards to laws that were racially discriminatory, then why does it not spread to laws that are sexually and orientationally discriminatory? Because those things weren't at the forefront of the debate when the 14th Amendment passed? If states are attempting to (and have) passed laws that directly discriminate against minorities, like homosexuals and other LEGALLY PROTECTED CLASSES, then why does the 14th Amendment magically not protect them from the government? Because a 2000-year old book "implies" that it is a sin against their religion? The Bible is not a precedent for a code of ethics, for ethics have existed long before the Bible's codification in the 200 ADs. The Code of Hammurabi has existed a full millennia and 3 quarters before this book, and was based almost entirely on secular law. Corpus Juris Civilis, the greatest legal book in the world, was written as a secular basis on how law should not only be interpreted, but also how it should be applied. The Bible can not, and should not be the definitive factor in deciding what happens in a nation with hundreds of millions practicing different religions and with wholly different ideals. To do so would infringe on freedom of religion, as established by the 1st Amendment of the United States, therefore, laws dictated upon by the United States Congress, President, and Supreme Court must be based entirely within the realm of equal and fair secularism.

The 14th Amendment then makes it plain, Homosexuals, African-Americans, and Transgender people should be protected classes of the United States, and therefore, fall under the protection of said amendment. If they are not equally protected, then once again, the 14th Amendment doesn't work, and is thusly a dead and shallow work.
 

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I also forgot to mention that during the rise of Christianity, homosexuality was still an extremely common thing up to 300 years after the death of Christ in the Roman Empire, and early Christians never had much to say about it, even when they took over as the predominant religion.
 

Smart Marx

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That is why we have a Supreme Court. Their whole job is to interpret the Constitution in matters that is not laid out explicitly within the text.

You believe the 14th Amendment does that. Your opinion does not matter.

The Supreme Court's opinion is all that matters.


Will his argument fly? We shall see.
It’s laid out explicitly in the text. It couldn’t be more clear.
 

Smart Marx

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That is why we have a Supreme Court. Their whole job is to interpret the Constitution in matters that is not laid out explicitly within the text.

You believe the 14th Amendment does that. Your opinion does not matter.

The Supreme Court's opinion is all that matters.


Will his argument fly? We shall see.
It’s also not the due process clause. Equal protections.
 

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It’s also not the due process clause. Equal protections.
I am not sure what was argued in that case.

But he wouldn't have called for a challenge if he didn't think it could be overturned.

We'll have to wait and see.
 

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Also, I would like to point out that Smark has not once called me a name during our discussion.

Quite refreshing even though we are at a stark disagreement.
 

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Also, I would like to point out that Smark has not once called me a name during our discussion.

Quite refreshing even though we are at a stark disagreement.
And I never did either :lmao but you can’t damn admit that.
 

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For the record, I still think that anyone who doesn't believe gay people and straight people can both get married if they want is asshole
 

Dakstang

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And I never did either :lmao but you can’t damn admit that.
You didn't technically call me a name I suppose.

But you said I didn't deserve niceness. So that was not very.....nice.

:Cocky
 

Dakstang

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For the record, I still think that anyone who doesn't believe gay people and straight people can both get married if they want is asshole
For the record, I respect your opinion and your right to have it.

:Cocky2
 

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You didn't technically call me a name I suppose.

But you said I didn't deserve niceness. So that was not very.....nice.

:Cocky
When I said that, I meant unlike normally I would tell folks to debate without name calling. Even if I disagree with the one being attacked. But yeah, here I’m not going to because it’s a pretty fucked opinion and anyone who reacts the way they do, I understand.
 

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Dakstang said:
For the record, I respect your opinion and your right to have it. :Cocky2
you can think I'm an asshole for calling you an asshole for not wanting gay people to be able to marry each other, that's okay. I'm not trying to stop you