The "Ok, so I was WRONG about Christian as WHC" thread....

[nation]

And regarding Christian as a worker, I don't hate him. I just don't see him as a main event talent and disagree with the IWC love fest. He's a solid hand but lacks certain traits that make a legit main eventer. I don't see what's wrong with being a mid carder, Roberts, Rude, Owen,Muraco, Anderson and so many other successful legends made their bones in the mid card their entire careers and I don't see a single one of those names that are ill remembered for not winning a world title.

Rick Rude was a major player in WCW up until Sting was careless and ended his career. He is a two time world champion. It replaced the NWA championship and for awhile it was one of the two world championships in WCW up until the merger. Not sure how credible the WCWA championship is but in it's defense Kerry Von Erich held the belt numerous times but the WCW International championship was definitely a world championship during the classic days of WCW and it was merged with one of most well known championships. If you mean strictly WWE, then yes Rick Rude was one of the best midcarders who should have moved further up the ladder but I guess that's what his WCW run was for.

Btw, related to Rick Rude but not the argument, the guy is legitimately one of the best fucking heels ever. I knew all about his WWE run but his best work by far was in WCW, still the man had an incredible run as a mid carder in the WWE.

 

[...god...]

Anyways, I don't even care anymore, I'm just about 100% sure that he's going to turn heel this week or the coming PPV and then commence into a proper feud with Orton. Mainly for one reason, think about CM Punk. Christian, since returning, and CM Punk have almost went through identical motions in their career. They were both the top guys in their respective companies and proved themself to the WWE and the fans, whom both knew how good they were. However, they never got their opportunity to truly shine (and nowadays in the WWE, turning heel is the only way to actually develop a character, sadly) until after 2 years. They also both had their runs with the ECW title. Still, fuck Orton, I hope the PROBLEM SOLVER comes back and kicks his fucking teeth in.

 

[Hometown Kid]

Why is everyone saying a heel turn will save Christian? Like I said in the SB, he's way more suited to be a babyface as a top guy. All his WWE heel characters were almost strictly comedic mid-card gimmicks and he was pretty much "Face constantly feuding with other faces = heel". The reason why Christian isn't as over is they NEVER GIVE HIM PROMO TIME! Which is by far his strength. Heel or Face. If he gets time to talk and make fun of people, he'll be fine. If they book him like they have been since ECW ended, he'll be a jobber, no matter what he is.

 

[...god...]

Uh.. obviously he'd get promo time if he turns heel, that's the ENTIRE point. And also was literally the entire point and comparison to CM Punk, who ALSO never got promo time and could never shine until he got his opportunity.

 

[Hometown Kid]

Punk got promo time on ECW and Raw, he just sucked.

And if that's the "entire point", why can't they just give him more promo time at his natural position in the company? I don't wanna see Christian as a goofball again, that's been played out. A more serious heel character would also be a total miscast. AND the face side is just as weak as the heel side on SD, they can't afford to be turning anybody atm, they just need to make new stars.

 

[...god...]

Nah, hardly, he got the same amount of time Christian did and that was to cut generic face promos.

Because like I just alluded to, nowadays in the WWE, if you're not Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, etc. you have to be a generic, one dimensional face. You don't get promo time to get over, and if you do, from what I hear creative basically tells you what to say word for word (as opposed to telling you what point to get across). It's a joke to hear guys like R-Truth, Morrison, Kingston, etc. speak. Punk's face promos were God awful and generic as well. I mean, what side of Christian do you want to see then? This is like me saying "oh I don't want to see the comedy-instilling, joke-around Rock!" or "I don't want to see the badass, don't trust anyone Stone Cold Steve Austin!". It's his character.. he got serious when it was needed, but it was fucking entertaining as hell. He was a cocky, brash, chicken-shit type heel with a big ass enforcer and he played it perfectly, it's just all part of his character. Do you want him to play a monster heel or something? And I get what you're saying in your initial question, he COULD get that character over as a face, that's the route I THOUGHT they were going when they let him win the title, but obviously the WWE won't let him. And honestly, he was playing that type of heel-face character who broke the rules and was cocky as hell, etc. on ECW, but it was just horrible and watered down.

 

[Hometown Kid]

I seem to remember him literally getting promo-time every week as WHC (Specifically cutting promos on Batista, Kane, JBL, Jericho, Orton, way more time than Christian's got on SD. Punk's just not that good in WWE, sorry. :/

I just wanna see the Christian similar to what we saw on TNA when he was babyface. Even his ECW character wasn't that bad, just half of what it could be. Like I said chicken-shit goofball isn't a main event gimmick. He can still be his entertaining self while fighting bad guys, he's just not meant to be a ME heel in WWE. He probably won't be a true Main eventer anyway, but definitely shouldn't turn unless necessary (like you're saying) to let him be himself again, which will probably just get him cheered, unless they turn him into a chicken-shit. which would get him heat, but would suck. He deserves better than that.

 

[...god...]

Didn't he basically do that in TNA? That's the character I see that he should be, cutting awesome promos, sorta like a Rock type face. Christian gets cheered all the time, but maybe it's not consistent enough for the WWE, Idk. Just like in 2005, there would be shows like in the UK where he had the crowd in the palm of his hands he'd be just tenfolds more over than everyone, including Batista who they were trying to get over as the top face. And he'd instantly just get all the cheers to turn to boos like Rock use to, it was lol. He was over as fuck, then got drafted to SD and it all kinda went downhill from there, you could tell there was some problems backstage as he went from main eventing (right as he got drafted) to just drifting around on fucking HEAT. All in all, you have to remember, the heel turn is probably the only sensical thing they could be doing, which is mainly why I'm speaking as if it's already happened. I mean, why the fuck else do you fulfill your life-long goal as a wrestler, in the WWE, after 13+ YEARS by winning the world title and then lose it almost literally the next night? There's like next to no way he could have fucked up, could you imagine creative pitching this idea to Edge with absolutely no plans to do anything else with Christian? I still think there are big plans for Christian, and if it involves him turning heel to begin to unfold and like you said, eventually get cheered like Jericho was (and Punk/Miz do quite a bit) then so be it.

On a side note, did you watch SD in 2010 at all through when CM Punk started the Straight Edge Society from start to finish? That shit was all gold as far his mic work and promo ability goes, seriously, should check it out if you haven't.

 

[Hometown Kid]

Hey, man, I agree with you. My main point was he's awesome as a babyface, and the perception around here seems to be "He's no good as face, heel's his strongsuit" while he was awesome as a heel, I always got the sense his real personality slanted towards face, and he seemed way more natural that way. Plus the formentioned SD. I think we both agree how this should turn out in the end. I just don't see creative pushing him like you are as a heel. Like, by SummerSlam he'll be in the same boat of doing nothing. D:

The SES got a bunch of cheap heat, just like Edge did in '06-'09. I don't like characters that just insult the audience over and over, and go so extreme to just do heelish things. Which is probably my main problem with Punk. BTW his feud with Big Show was really bad, and not entertaining. Granted it's Big Show, but still. The only time I enjoyed Punk was on commentary, when he really shined as a more natural heelish guy. Obv. that's a whole 'nother thing, but he really impressed me at that time.

 

[...god...]

But.. you like R-Truth.. and were praising R-Truth. When all that guy does is attack the audience, lol. You enjoyed that youtube video of his and it was 5 minutes of him insulting individual members of the audience?

Oh yeah, for sure, that whole thing was dead by the time he started feuding with Show, fuck him, I don't even think I was watching much then. It was awesome in the beginning with DX and Rey Mysterio, etc.

 

[Hometown Kid]

But.. you like R-Truth.. and were praising R-Truth. When all that guy does is attack the audience, lol. You enjoyed that youtube video of his and it was 5 minutes of him insulting individual members of the audience?

Oh yeah, for sure, that whole thing was dead by the time he started feuding with Show, fuck him, I don't even think I was watching much then. It was awesome in the beginning with DX and Rey Mysterio, etc.

Tee-hee. ;D Tbf those were just individual promos that were just straight jokes and one-liners. A little less extreme than calling people drug addicts and shaving heads. That stuff just wasn't entertaining personally.

Can't diss his feud with Rey too much though, he did some good work mic-wise. Maybe there's just little subconscious things I don't like about Punk overall, or the fact I think his ROH work is better, or I just don't like the guy. It might just be who he works with. Even I'd love a WM28 SCSA/Punk feud that Airfixx mentioned in the other thread.

 

[...god...]

Have you been keeping up on Tough Enough? Such an awesome show, seriously look forward to it FAR more than Raw every week. Austin is just pure gold.

 

[Hometown Kid]

Yeah, Austin is amazing. Pretty lame about the eliminations and how it works. (Miss USA over Matt Cross? WTF!?) The reasons change for criticizing the guys, and all of trainers are horrible. the show actually sucks 90% of the time, but the last 5 minutes of just Austin grilling people not only makes up for it, it's the best 5 minutes of TV all week. Such a great talker.

 

[...god...]

Lol, when he's following em and harassing them in the little golf caddy thing as they ran that HUGE distance up a mountain.

 

[Airfixx]

There was a HUGE difference between Benoit and Christian's opportunities. Benoit was in the mainevent of the 20th Mania against the top heel and MR. Mania himself. Benoit worked his ass off to he point where he was completely over because he was the best worker alive. Christian is slightly over and has more charisma than Benoit ever had but he has never reached where Benoit was in 03-04. Benoit, in his in ring work alone, had the ability to make people care about him and buy into his character. Christian is totally hit and miss with audiences. But to answer the question at hand, before Chris jumped off the deep end, it was my favorite moment of that decade.

To me it's varying degrees of the same thing.... They were more thank you/respect reigns (also see Kane last year) than anything.... I mean beforehand he'd only ever featured in a 3-way at SSlam00 and in the textbook midcard title shot at RR03 and after became the quintessential US champ once he'd dropped the WHC to Orton... Did he ever so much as challenge for a world title on PPV again? Not as far as I recall...

Punk got promo time on ECW and Raw, he just sucked.

In his defense, it's the same old complaint.... How can you exhibit your mic skills without anything of weight to chat about..... As IC champ he never really got a proper fued aside from all the bullshit they pulled when he was facing Regal. As tag champ with Kofi, I don't remember them getting any time to talk (Missed opportunity... Shoulda had a long term fued with Priceless... Same old grumble... Set up a stable/team only to do nothing of consequence with them). In fact can't think of anything he was booked to do that would have facilitated him getting significant promo time. As WHC on Raw, again he didn't get a notable fued... They didn't even let him go on a rampage to take revenge on Orton... Just a quick backstage 'interview' and DQ victory on Raw.

Oh yeah, for sure, that whole thing was dead by the time he started feuding with Show, fuck him, I don't even think I was watching much then. It was awesome in the beginning with DX and Rey Mysterio, etc.

SES only really sucked cos they were booked like UTTER shite and the personel he had were little more than extras. Punk didn't win a single match in a feud whilst they were a unit (*)... Think how amazing it would have been if they'd forced Rey to become one of them (only they gave that same storyline to Cena & Nexus that summer intead)... Same now he's with Nexus.... Poor Punk what should have happened is that when there was all this talk of a secret Nexus leader, they should have revealed Punk as the true leader then; thus making Barret his right hand man and merging the best bits of both angles to form a brainwashed, straight-edge Supa-Nexus!.

(*Cannot over-estimate the value of workers/characters that, whilst losing the bulk of their significant matches, still stay over..... See Jericho, Jake The Snake, later-period Razor Ramon.)