Seth Rollins : The Modern Showstopper

[edge4ever]

You all love Rollins and will mark for
Him.

 

[Marcus Snowden]

Honestly, you can't really compare recent wrestlers to legends. It's too much hype to live up to.

 

[Jacob Fox]

I love Seth Rollins and think he is pretty great, but it's difficult to compare anyone to Shawn Michaels. HBK could have a match with almost anyone and make it into an interesting match. And he did this from really early on. He was clearly the more talented of the Rockers and when the team broke up, his Intercontinental run is still one of the best in company history. Hell, the guy had good matches with frickin Hacksaw Jim Duggan and that's pretty shocking in itself. Shawn Michaels could ALWAYS make the person he was wresting look so much better than he really was. This is something that not many guys can do. And no one, IMO, could do it to the level that only HBK and Ric Flair have been able to in American wrestling.

Rollins, on the other hand, is a really good wrestler, but watching his run with the WWE title last, he didn't really elevate the guys he faced. He faced Kane and Kane seemed like Kane, Orton seemed like Orton and Sting seemed like Sting. I love Rollins, but it was a pretty boring title run in my view.

In order to be considered on the level of Shawn Michaels, he would really have to consistently elevate other talent and I haven't seen him do that. In American wrestling, both he and Ric Flair are on a level all their own in that regard. Don't get wrong, other guys can make their opponents look good, but these two men could do it in their sleep over and over and over again. Rollins has a long, long way to go before he can be spoke of as being on their level.

 

[Roadster]

Rollins, on the other hand, is a really good wrestler, but watching his run with the WWE title last, he didn't really elevate the guys he faced. He faced Kane and Kane seemed like Kane, Orton seemed like Orton and Sting seemed like Sting. I love Rollins, but it was a pretty boring title run in my view.

You can't compare champion runs like that.

Seth Rollins was a first time champion. Young and fresh. He was going to be one of the biggest stars of the newer generations along with Reigns and Ambrose. He's not mean't to elevate others. The people he worked with are mean't to elevate him. That's the reason he was working with seasoned veterans for the most part. His run with Orton, Cena, Sting and Kane was to make him a more viable and prominent threat in the WWE. A common saying nowadays is that, in the past, the champion was mean't to elevate the title - and now the title is mean't to elevate the champion. That's a clear case here. He was being elevated and didn't need to make anyone else look stronger. Why would he need to? He was facing multi-time champions who already have secured their place among fans and in the industry.

Shawn Michaels was the same in his initial run. He faced Bulldog, for the most part, and he was coming out on-top. Bulldog went straight down to the midcard, but it solidified Shawn Michaels. However, later down the line, with his 3rd WWE title run, he did what every seasoned champion does and that's elevate and solidify the heir to the throne. And he did that with Steve Austin.

Bottom line is, Seth Rollins doesn't need to elevate anyone nor was he intended to. As his career progresses, and he racks up more title wins, the need to give a rub to newer talents will grow.

 

[Jacob Fox]

You can't compare champion runs like that.

Seth Rollins was a first time champion. Young and fresh. He was going to be one of the biggest stars of the newer generations along with Reigns and Ambrose. He's not mean't to elevate others. The people he worked with are mean't to elevate him. That's the reason he was working with seasoned veterans for the most part. His run with Orton, Cena, Sting and Kane was to make him a more viable and prominent threat in the WWE. A common saying nowadays is that, in the past, the champion was mean't to elevate the title - and now the title is mean't to elevate the champion. That's a clear case here. He was being elevated and didn't need to make anyone else look stronger. Why would he need to? He was facing multi-time champions who already have secured their place among fans and in the industry.

Shawn Michaels was the same in his initial run. He faced Bulldog, for the most part, and he was coming out on-top. Bulldog went straight down to the midcard, but it solidified Shawn Michaels. However, later down the line, with his 3rd WWE title run, he did what every seasoned champion does and that's elevate and solidify the heir to the throne. And he did that with Steve Austin.

Bottom line is, Seth Rollins doesn't need to elevate anyone nor was he intended to. As his career progresses, and he racks up more title wins, the need to give a rub to newer talents will grow.

Actually, I didn't compare, I contrasted. And yes, I can contrast because there is plenty to contrast.

It's completely irrelevant what stage in their career the opponent is as to whether or not a wrestler should elevate them or not. I am not talking about helping them in their career or putting them over. I'm talking about having the ability to put on a match with somebody who may not regularly put on four star matches and make them look like four star performers IN THAT MATCH. And yes, there is good reason to do it and it's because fans find it entertaining.

Throughout Ric Flair's career, he faced plenty of older guys who had nothing to gain by Flair putting them over and Flair still went out and put on great matches by making them look better than they were. And HBK did that throughout his career.

Shawn Michaels did this very early on and throughout his IC run. He didn't have much a run with the Bulldog at all... that was pretty much over quickly. He spent more time feuding with Marty Jannetty than anyone else during that run. And after defeating the Bulldog, he was immediately placed in a champion vs champion feud with Bret Hart. He put on matches with Marty Janetty, Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Tatanka and Razor Ramon of the caliber that those guys had never before or since put on. There was no reason for him to make Duggan look good other than the fact that he was putting on a good match. HBK did this with Ric Flair in Flair's retirement match.

So yes, there is plenty of reason for Seth Rollins to be able to do this: it makes individual matches more entertaining. And Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair did that throughout their careers whether they were facing older guys or younger guys. And that is why I put them in a class all their own.

 

[Roadster]

Actually, I didn't compare, I contrasted. And yes, I can contrast because there is plenty to contrast.

It's completely irrelevant what stage in their career the opponent is as to whether or not a wrestler should elevate them or not. I am not talking about helping them in their career or putting them over. I'm talking about having the ability to put on a match with somebody who may not regularly put on four star matches and make them look like four star performers IN THAT MATCH. And yes, there is good reason to do it and it's because fans find it entertaining.

Throughout Ric Flair's career, he faced plenty of older guys who had nothing to gain by Flair putting them over and Flair still went out and put on great matches by making them look better than they were. And HBK did that throughout his career.

Shawn Michaels did this very early on and throughout his IC run. He didn't have much a run with the Bulldog at all... that was pretty much over quickly. He spent more time feuding with Marty Jannetty than anyone else during that run. And after defeating the Bulldog, he was immediately placed in a champion vs champion feud with Bret Hart. He put on matches with Marty Janetty, Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Tatanka and Razor Ramon of the caliber that those guys had never before or since put on. There was no reason for him to make Duggan look good other than the fact that he was putting on a good match. HBK did this with Ric Flair in Flair's retirement match.

So yes, there is plenty of reason for Seth Rollins to be able to do this: it makes individual matches more entertaining. And Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair did that throughout their careers whether they were facing older guys or younger guys. And that is why I put them in a class all their own.

You could've made it clearer as to what you mean't. :dawg:

Thought you mean't, helping them in making them look stronger. Elevate isn't the greatest choice in vocabulary, either.

Also, his feud with British Bulldog in 1996 didn't end quickly. It ran for months and was the precursor to the Vader vs. Shawn feud that also led to Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels.

 

[Marcus Snowden]

You could've made it clearer as to what you mean't. :dawg:

Thought you mean't, helping them in making them look stronger. Elevate isn't the greatest choice in vocabulary, either.

Also, his feud with British Bulldog in 1996 didn't end quickly. It ran for months and was the precursor to the Vader vs. Shawn feud that also led to Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels.

I thought that Michaels' feud with Mankind was the precursor to the Vader vs. Shawn feud.

 

[Marcus Snowden]

Shawn Michaels was one of a kind. People say Rollins isn't the next anyone, because there never will be a next HBK. Y2J is the only candidate.

People are on their high horses claiming their favorite to be the greatest of all time. Shawn Michaels had a 2 decade career. Numerous 5* matches. Amazing storytelling attributes. Seth Rollins is a wrestler, a different talent. I will never put anyone above HBK when it comes to in-ring work. You can have as many 60 minute spot fest and technical masterpieces, and it still won't match up to a 20 minute HBK match. And when HBK went 60 minutes, he was that much better.

Give the man another decade or two before people start assuming him to be the heir to the GOAT throne.

Well, you can argue that Misawa was a better in-ring worker than Shawn.

 

[Roadster]

I thought that Michaels' feud with Mankind was the precursor to the Vader vs. Shawn feud.

Nope. Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind happened at Mind Games in September 1996. not exactly sure. Just going off the top of my head. And it was hardly a feud. It was just a plot point in the Camp Cornette vs. Michaels feud. That was also the backdrop for Michaels vs. Bulldog, Vader and Sid.

 

[Marcus Snowden]

Nope. Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind happened at Mind Games in September 1996. not exactly sure. Just going off the top of my head. And it was hardly a feud. It was just a plot point in the Camp Cornette vs. Michaels feud. That was also the backdrop for Michaels vs. Bulldog, Vader and Sid.

Oh, OK. Got ya.

 

[Marcus Snowden]

Shawn Michaels was one of a kind. People say Rollins isn't the next anyone, because there never will be a next HBK. Y2J is the only candidate.

People are on their high horses claiming their favorite to be the greatest of all time. Shawn Michaels had a 2 decade career. Numerous 5* matches. Amazing storytelling attributes. Seth Rollins is a wrestler, a different talent. I will never put anyone above HBK when it comes to in-ring work. You can have as many 60 minute spot fest and technical masterpieces, and it still won't match up to a 20 minute HBK match. And when HBK went 60 minutes, he was that much better.

Give the man another decade or two before people start assuming him to be the heir to the GOAT throne.

I completely agree. You can't really compare a modern wrestler who has, like, five years of experience t

I love Seth Rollins and think he is pretty great, but it's difficult to compare anyone to Shawn Michaels. HBK could have a match with almost anyone and make it into an interesting match. And he did this from really early on. He was clearly the more talented of the Rockers and when the team broke up, his Intercontinental run is still one of the best in company history. Hell, the guy had good matches with frickin Hacksaw Jim Duggan and that's pretty shocking in itself. Shawn Michaels could ALWAYS make the person he was wresting look so much better than he really was. This is something that not many guys can do. And no one, IMO, could do it to the level that only HBK and Ric Flair have been able to in American wrestling.

Rollins, on the other hand, is a really good wrestler, but watching his run with the WWE title last, he didn't really elevate the guys he faced. He faced Kane and Kane seemed like Kane, Orton seemed like Orton and Sting seemed like Sting. I love Rollins, but it was a pretty boring title run in my view.

In order to be considered on the level of Shawn Michaels, he would really have to consistently elevate other talent and I haven't seen him do that. In American wrestling, both he and Ric Flair are on a level all their own in that regard. Don't get wrong, other guys can make their opponents look good, but these two men could do it in their sleep over and over and over again. Rollins has a long, long way to go before he can be spoke of as being on their level.

Rollins has to REALLY kick some ass and have some five star matches to compare to HBK in the next several years. Also, he may need to have the ability to carry greener opponents that Shawn does. I mean, Michaels carried Sycho Sid to his greatest match ever at Survivor Series in 1996. Shawn's 1996 WWF Championship was one of the greatest in-ring title reigns in history. He had so many great matches over the seven months he was WWF Champion. I love Seth, but his title reign was terrible, though through no fault of his own.

 

[Roadster]

Well, you can argue that Misawa was a better in-ring worker than Shawn.

That can be said, but that's even harder to compare/contrast, in my opinon.

Comparing someone who is a veteran of the Japanese style of wrestling to a veteran of the American style of wrestling, is really hard because the styles are different, and warrant different talents for someone to be considered amazing.

Michaels has qualities that Misawa didn't have and Misawa had talents Michaels didn't have.

But this is a topic for another time.

 

[Marcus Snowden]

That can be said, but that's even harder to compare/contrast, in my opinon.

Comparing someone who is a veteran of the Japanese style of wrestling to a veteran of the American style of wrestling, is really hard because the styles are different, and warrant different talents for someone to be considered amazing.

Michaels has qualities that Misawa didn't have and Misawa had talents Michaels didn't have.

But this is a topic for another time.

Maybe I should create a thread on this topic.

 

[Roadster]

Maybe I should create a thread on this topic.

Go ahead. Could be interesting to see other peoples take on the situation.

 

[Jacob Fox]

You could've made it clearer as to what you mean't. :dawg:

Thought you mean't, helping them in making them look stronger. Elevate isn't the greatest choice in vocabulary, either.

Also, his feud with British Bulldog in 1996 didn't end quickly. It ran for months and was the precursor to the Vader vs. Shawn feud that also led to Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels.

I'll try harder in the future

And sorry, I thought you were talking about the feud HBK had with the Bulldog over the IC title when Michaels won the IC title from him and then moved on to Bret Hart.