Samoa Joe

[CenaMark54]

^^^I disagree. If casuals are not given a reason to watch they won't. If the show sucks they will be the first to leave. The difference between right now and 1999 is that there are less casual fans following wrestling.

Hardcore fans, while being more critical, find it harder to stop watching. They would rather bitch about having to watch a shitty show than not watch it at all.

 

[Kaedon]

No, no, no.

Its stupid fans who watch no matter what. Why the hell would you sit there and watch something that's not entertaining you? The fact that these other fans watch another wrestling company does not make them any less a wrestling fan.

Example, Person A enjoys the work of Samoa Joe, however Person A does not enjoy TNA, so Person A does not watch it despite the fact that Samoa Joe is on there, because you see Person A has better things to do with his time than watch garbage. So instead Person A decides to watch RoH instead. Does that make them any less "hardcore"? Absolutely not. It makes them discerning. So let's cut this argument short right here.

We are having a fundamental difference on what the definition of "hardcore" is. To me, a hardcore fan is someone who is loyal to the product or the wrestler no matter what. How hardcore of a fan can they be if they are willing to cut and run during the bad times? Not saying that its smart, but it is what it is. I equate it to a guy or a girl who sticks with a person despite it turning bad. I mean what does it say about the person who leaves his/her spouse when they get Cancer or become paralyzed? Or even something simpler. Say your spouse loses their job. Eventually it will turn back around, but do you cut and run because your immediate gratification cant be met? No, because more than likely they provide something else to you. I wasn't a big fan of the WWE during the attitude era other than the main event scene. I rarely ever watched the undercard and just tuned in for the ME, but I still tuned in because there was SOMETHING I liked.

 

[monkeystyle]

^^^I disagree. If casuals are not given a reason to watch they won't. If the show sucks they will be the first to leave. The difference between right now and 1999 is that there are less casual fans following wrestling.

Hardcore fans, while being more critical, find it harder to stop watching. They would rather bitch about having to watch a shitty show than not watch it at all.

We are having a fundamental difference on what the definition of "hardcore" is. To me, a hardcore fan is someone who is loyal to the product or the wrestler no matter what. How hardcore of a fan can they be if they are willing to cut and run during the bad times? Not saying that its smart, but it is what it is. I equate it to a guy or a girl who sticks with a person despite it turning bad. I mean what does it say about the person who leaves his/her spouse when they get Cancer or become paralyzed? Or even something simpler. Say your spouse loses their job. Eventually it will turn back around, but do you cut and run because your immediate gratification cant be met? No, because more than likely they provide something else to you. I wasn't a big fan of the WWE during the attitude era other than the main event scene. I rarely ever watched the undercard and just tuned in for the ME, but I still tuned in because there was SOMETHING I liked.

Okay two things.

First off Kaedon, wow. Comparing wrestling to someone having cancer. Or being paralyzed? I don't exactly see this conversation ever happening. "Sir, I'm sorry to tell you this but you're paralyzed." "Oh, my God! You mean I can't move!?... Oh wait, can I still watch wrestling? Yeah, I can? Okay then we have no problems here."

Just a little bit silly don't ya think?

Secondly after reading your posts you've inspired me enough to make a thread of my own...

Coming soon.

 

[Kaedon]

Okay two things.

First off Kaedon, wow. Comparing wrestling to someone having cancer. Or being paralyzed? I don't exactly see this conversation ever happening. "Sir, I'm sorry to tell you this but you're paralyzed." "Oh, my God! You mean I can't move!?... Oh wait, can I still watch wrestling? Yeah, I can? Okay then we have no problems here."

Just a little bit silly don't ya think?

Secondly after reading your posts you've inspired me enough to make a thread of my own...

Coming soon.

It's not just wrestling, its everything. From the brand of toothpaste you use to the TV shows you watch, to whatever shoes you wear. It's called loyalty. Some people, like you obviously, dont believe in loyalty as much as your needs being met, and thats fine. Live how you wanna live.

 

[monkeystyle]

It's not just wrestling, its everything. From the brand of toothpaste you use to the TV shows you watch, to whatever shoes you wear. It's called loyalty. Some people, like you obviously, dont believe in loyalty as much as your needs being met, and thats fine. Live how you wanna live.

At least call a spade a spade and call it blind foolishness.

 

[thedeadite]

I have to agree with Monkeystyle on this. There's alot of wrestlers in both tna and wwe that I really enjoy watching. I, however, don't have too much time to watch alot of wrestling. Both wwe and tna had gotten to the point that it wasn't worth it to me to waste my time watching them in hopes I'd get to see the talent I like actually get to do something. My gf doesn't like wrestling so when I watch it's taking time away from us spending time together. I'll watch ROH shows still because i always am satisfied with nearly 100% of every show.

Just because I consider myself a "hardcore" (as has been put) wrestling fan..doesn't mean that wrestling supercedes everything else in my life. I'll keep up with the results and dl a show if i read anything that interests me. I won't waste a 6 hours a week wading through the possible crap of all the wwe/tna shows just because i'm a fan.

 

[HHHforever]

I think that this hardcore argument would be better put in these terms opposed to having cancer or being paralyzed:

I am a huge Pittsburgh Steelers fan. Now typically the Steelers are very good and make the playoffs, for the sake of this argument we'll consider them to be the WWE of football. They make good money, they win, they have a lot of fans, always sell out games, etc.

Now this year the Cleveland Browns had a great season and went 10-6, so one could say that they're up and coming. They're starting to draw more fans, win games, people are starting to pay attention, etc. So we could call them the TNA of this discussion. I live in Ohio so all of my friends root for the Browns and think I'm a freak for rooting for the Steelers.

So let's say next year the Steelers go 6-10, 5-11 which would be a down year, which is what some have called the past year for the WWE w/ the Cena reign. Well let's say that the Browns go 9-7 win the wild card, kind of like TNA having a solid year some say poised to completely take over the WWE.

Well since I'm a hard core Steelers fan do I start rooting for the Browns because the Steelers sucked for a little while and the Browns look good. NO!! I think it's the same thing with the WWE and TNA. If you're truly a hardcore WWE fan then you won't switch over to TNA. I may be wrong, but that's the way that I look at this argument.

 

[monkeystyle]

These are two TV shows. Not sports teams. Despite what people try and tell you they are not in competition. Aside from that one generally doesn't root for one TV show over another.

Well, there are reasons that one might, but we won't get into those.

 

[HHHforever]

I understand their not sports teams, but I think a comparison can be drawn. At least it can be related closer than comparing it to your spouse having cancer imo.

 

[monkeystyle]

You can probably draw a comparison to anything you want if you try hard enough. Doesn't mean its right.

 

[gashface]

BS that hardcore fans will always stick with wrestling, I'd consider myself quite a hardcore fan but not really a mark - yet I gave up on WWE around 2004. It was so bad that even as a seven year wrestling fan I could not bear to watch, then I started watching TNA in 2006 regularly, and it pisses me off... and yes I stick with it, why? Because I want something to challenge WWE and make the industry exciting again. But I abandoned wrestling for two or so years, only watching it every other month to see what I was missing, which was never much.

Hardcore fans don't always stick with the product, otherwise there'd be much higher ratings for wrestling programmes in general. They're human, and they have times in their lives when they might not think it's worth their time to watch it.

Anyway.. this topic got very off topic didn't it?

 

[Kaedon]

At least call a spade a spade and call it blind foolishness.

I dont think it's blind foolishness. I am searching for something to like in the program. Do I have to like everything on the show to be a fan? Am I not allowed to say "I like Nigel McGuinness and the rest of ROH sucks" and watch it just to see him?

 

[This Guy]

um, since no one can seem to stay on topic this is now being moved to Street Fight where you can continue to argue over Hardcore vs. Non Hardcore.

 

[Great One]

Tbh, I think it's perfectly reasonable to just a watch a show for one or two wrestlers. That's practically what I did with SD at one time. I basically just watched the show for MVP (or at least paid attention the times of his air time more). And ECW for Punk.

Also, lol, if you guys think Samoa Joe getting the title will suddenly bring in some magical new ratings you're sadly mistaken. BUT, what will and I agree with bring in some good exposure and possibilities will be the new TNA video game.

 

[chessarmy]

^ agreed, I watched WWE for a long time just for HBK because I used to be a huge mark of his, I think after a while my I just lost interest in him and WWE as a whole so I turned on TNA in 2004 and got hooked. Now I watch TNA for Samoa Joe mainly, everyone else is just icing on the cake lol