Samoa Joe

[CenaMark54]

Who said we hated it because it's "boring"? Kurt Angle, Jeff Jarret, and Hulk Hogan's feuds are/were not boring. Want to know why we hate Cena and call him boring? It's the same damn thing, over and over, for 380 days. Cena gets destroyed by the heel a few times, says some really inspirational speech to said heel and/or to the audience in one of the final RAWs before the PPV, and finally picks up his first win against the heel for the title at the PPV, at which point everyone in the audience who has yet to reach puberty cheers, jumping out of their seats and spilling their Rey Mysteri-O's. We don't hate Cena because we think champions retaining titles is boring. We hate him because he spent the past year and a half servicing 8 year olds on national television.

This thread is supposed to be about Joe. Not about how much you hate Cena for being the most entertaining wrestler in the world today. Nor is it about how much you hate a booking style that the WWE has been using for the better part of 50 years.

Lets keep all Cena bashing to the all purpose Cena thread in the WWE section.

 

[Kaedon]

Who said we hated it because it's "boring"? Kurt Angle, Jeff Jarret, and Hulk Hogan's feuds are/were not boring. Want to know why we hate Cena and call him boring? It's the same damn thing, over and over, for 380 days. Cena gets destroyed by the heel a few times, says some really inspirational speech to said heel and/or to the audience in one of the final RAWs before the PPV, and finally picks up his first win against the heel for the title at the PPV, at which point everyone in the audience who has yet to reach puberty cheers, jumping out of their seats and spilling their Rey Mysteri-O's. We don't hate Cena because we think champions retaining titles is boring. We hate him because he spent the past year and a half servicing 8 year olds on national television.

Oh what a bunch of bullshit. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE wanted JJ to drop that god damn belt. But he kept going with it for whatever reason.

HHH had the belt for how long? People wanted him to drop it.
Cena had it for almost two years, people wanted him to drop it.
JBL had it for 9 months and from DAY FUCKING ONE, people were shitting all over his title reign. 2 months in, drop the belt, 4 months in drop the belt.

According to your logic, only TNA is allowed to have prolonged title reigns.

And by the by, if you don't want a wrestling show that appeals to a young audience, turn off the fucking WWE. They dont see you and me as a major audience, so they try to get the kids. That's business. If you were as "smart" a fan as you think you are, you'd realize that.

 

[chessarmy]

Great the next invincible John Cena is going to win the championship and hold the championship for 2 years.

Tell me you didnt just say that...

I could right a 50 page essay on how Joe is better than Cena and Joe's title run will be 999,999,999 better than Cena's, but instead I'll make it simple so people like you can understand...


Joe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other wrestler in the world>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>JOHN CENA

Which means, even if Joe wins the title (if he does I'll mark out like a little girl), his title run will be NOTHING like Cena's, because Joe can wrestle and has been in ***** star matches, Cena hasnt. Joe deserves the World Title, Cena doesnt, its that simple. Joe as champion=ratings and I hope to god that this report is true because if Samoa Joe wins the World Title I think not only will TNA benefit, but the entire Wrestling world will because for the first time in a while, the best wrestler in the world will finally be WORLD CHAMPION!

TNA, do it...give Joe the world title

 

[CenaMark54]

Tell me you didnt just say that...

I could right a 50 page essay on how Joe is better than Cena and Joe's title run will be 999,999,999 better than Cena's, but instead I'll make it simple so people like you can understand...


Joe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other wrestler in the world>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>JOHN CENA

Which means, even if Joe wins the title (if he does I'll mark out like a little girl), his title run will be NOTHING like Cena's, because Joe can wrestle and has been in ***** star matches, Cena hasnt. Joe deserves the World Title, Cena doesnt, its that simple. Joe as champion=ratings and I hope to god that this report is true because if Samoa Joe wins the World Title I think not only will TNA benefit, but the entire Wrestling world will because for the first time in a while, the best wrestler in the world will finally be WORLD CHAMPION!

TNA, do it...give Joe the world title

I'm sorry but please do not compare Samoa Joe to the biggest and most popular wrestler in the world today. You will look foolish every time.

Cena = Biggest draw since The Rock.
Samoa Joe + 20 other guys in the impact zone = Samoa Joe fanclub

Joe may draw in 20 people to the impact zone once a month, but Cena sells out stadiums. Samoa Joe having the world title will do nothing for impacts ratings.

 

[PeepShow]

Samoa Joe having the world title will do nothing for impacts ratings.

You honestly might be surprised. I've known quite a few people who don't watch TNA just b/c they are using Joe wrong. And I'm saying prolly about 25 % of the people out there that aren't watching it now. A combination of him with the title and the new video game, TNA will EASILY surpass ECW by the summer.

 

[chessarmy]

I'm sorry but please do not compare Samoa Joe to the biggest and most popular wrestler in the world today. You will look foolish every time.

Cena = Biggest draw since The Rock.
Samoa Joe + 20 other guys in the impact zone = Samoa Joe fanclub

Joe may draw in 20 people to the impact zone once a month, but Cena sells out stadiums. Samoa Joe having the world title will do nothing for impacts ratings.

I dont care who draws or who sells merchandise or any of that shit. If I was a booker or an owner of a wrestling promotion then ofcourse I would care, because wrestlers who draw always equals more popularity for the product which equals money (probably why Angle is TNA champ right now) but I dont give a rats behind if one wrestler draws more than the other, to me its about who is better in the ring and in my post I wanted to make it clear that Joe's title run will be much better than Cena's 18 year run because Joe isnt as boring and is a much better wrestler. Sure, Cena is the bigger draw but that doesnt mean I need to like him. And as Peepshow said, lots of people are pissed off at the way Joe is being booked, if he wins the World Title not only will the hardcore wrestling fans, the internet fans, and the ROH fans take notice, but all the former TNA fans who are pissed will come back to the product to see Joe with the title...and if I'm not mistaken, the combination of all those fans equals ratings

 

[HHHforever]

This thread is supposed to be about Joe. Not about how much you hate Cena for being the most entertaining wrestler in the world today. Nor is it about how much you hate a booking style that the WWE has been using for the better part of 50 years.

Lets keep all Cena bashing to the all purpose Cena thread in the WWE section.

Hahaha good luck with that. I've been attempting to lead Roxxi to the HHH hate thread and the Cena bitch thread for about week or so, but I don't think that Roxxi leads the title of threads before posting, just assumes that all threads are designed to bitch about Cena, HHH, or WWE booking in general.

Joe is greater than every other wrestler in the world? That's a very bold statement.

 

[Barurot]

Arguing on who is a better wrestler is really pointless, people who like Cena will defend Cena, people who like Joe will defend Joe... Both wrestlers work for different companies and in different conditions... Some people may have gotten tired of Cena as champ, or think its Joe time to become champ, but reality is shows/wrestlers are not booked to appeal to smart wrestling fans, they are booked to gain the widest possible audience...

Going back on topic... Joe being champ may be a fresh thing for TNA, if it does happen I HOPE they book his reign properly...

 

[CenaMark54]

I dont care who draws or who sells merchandise or any of that shit. If I was a booker or an owner of a wrestling promotion then ofcourse I would care, because wrestlers who draw always equals more popularity for the product which equals money (probably why Angle is TNA champ right now) but I dont give a rats behind if one wrestler draws more than the other, to me its about who is better in the ring and in my post I wanted to make it clear that Joe's title run will be much better than Cena's 18 year run because Joe isnt as boring and is a much better wrestler. Sure, Cena is the bigger draw but that doesnt mean I need to like him. And as Peepshow said, lots of people are pissed off at the way Joe is being booked, if he wins the World Title not only will the hardcore wrestling fans, the internet fans, and the ROH fans take notice, but all the former TNA fans who are pissed will come back to the product to see Joe with the title...and if I'm not mistaken, the combination of all those fans equals ratings

Yea, and thats your opinion. 99% of wrestling fans prefer to watch Cena perform than Joe. The ability to draw PV buys, increase ratings and sell merchandise are indicators of how over a wrestler is with fans. They shouldn't be just brushed off to the side because they don't fit into your arguement. If Cena was boring he would not be the most popular active wrestler in the world today. Just because you think Joe is a better wrestler doesn;t matter. Joe may have a more extensive moveset right now and he may be better in the ring. Thats doesn;t make him a better professional wrestler.

Cena has the intangibles that Austin, The Rock and Hogan had. Those intangibles are the factors that make you great. The Rock was never great in the ring and few would argue that Joe is a better professional wrestler than the Rock.

The simple fact of the matter is that Cena had the belt because the majority of wrestling fans wanted him to be champ and enjoyed his run of overcoming the odds and retaining the belt. Your opinion on his title run does not chnage that.

 

[gashface]

The reason Cena draws more fans is because Cena is more attractrable to casual fans, to kids, and to entertainment fans not wrestling fans.

Giving Samoa Joe will bring in some more of the hardcore wrestling fans but not the general mass audience - however if you were to book him against a mass audience oponent then that would be a good way to improve ratings.

I think Joe's title run will be deserved, Kurt Angle is not entertaining me as a champion.. I think Joe will be a refreshing change and bring a lot to the table... his outspokeness of late reminds me a bit of ECW type promos and I think that is a chemistry for sucess, whether it has since been scripted or not.

 

[Kaedon]

The reason Cena draws more fans is because Cena is more attractrable to casual fans, to kids, and to entertainment fans not wrestling fans.

Giving Samoa Joe will bring in some more of the hardcore wrestling fans but not the general mass audience - however if you were to book him against a mass audience oponent then that would be a good way to improve ratings.

I think Joe's title run will be deserved, Kurt Angle is not entertaining me as a champion.. I think Joe will be a refreshing change and bring a lot to the table... his outspokeness of late reminds me a bit of ECW type promos and I think that is a chemistry for sucess, whether it has since been scripted or not.

Too bad IT WONT MATTER. TNA already has a core of hardlined fans who want to see what TNA has to offer. They have the fans of places like ROH because they use their talent regularly. Do you honestly think someone who knows of Samoa Joe, the "hardcore wrestling fans" dont already watch TNA just to see him? That is a Blue argument. TNA NEEDS to bring in the casual fan. They NEED to bring in those people you smarks all despise so much because THEY pay the bills. Any "hardcore wrestling fan" who doesn't already watch TNA or the WWE really isn't worth having anyway. Because more than likely they will just sit there and fucking whine about why Joe is so much better than the rest of the roster and how he is "underutilized".

 

[gashface]

Do you think TNA arnt trying? The set up of TNA has dramatically changed since they went to two hours, they have much more comedy and are conforming much more to a WWE type promotion... I actually think that is the wrong thing to do, if people wanted to see WWE they'd watch that. TNA needs to be different... but still appealing to the casual fan. They've been trying and true enough it isn't working, we all know that.. I'm simply saying there is still a base of hardcore fans who would tune in that might not normally if Joe was champion.

 

[Kaedon]

Do you think TNA arnt trying? The set up of TNA has dramatically changed since they went to two hours, they have much more comedy and are conforming much more to a WWE type promotion... I actually think that is the wrong thing to do, if people wanted to see WWE they'd watch that. TNA needs to be different... but still appealing to the casual fan. They've been trying and true enough it isn't working, we all know that.. I'm simply saying there is still a base of hardcore fans who would tune in that might not normally if Joe was champion.

Then they arent that "hardcore" of a fan.

 

[CenaMark54]

Then they arent that "hardcore" of a fan.

Exactly, its the hardcore fans that will watch no matter what. Right now thats all TNA really has.

The casuals are the fans you have to attract and maintain. Making Joe champion will really do nothing to attract casual fans because most casual wrestling fans have never heard of him before.

They have to do something truely amazing to capture the attention of casuals.

 

[monkeystyle]

No, no, no.

Its stupid fans who watch no matter what. Why the hell would you sit there and watch something that's not entertaining you? The fact that these other fans watch another wrestling company does not make them any less a wrestling fan.

Example, Person A enjoys the work of Samoa Joe, however Person A does not enjoy TNA, so Person A does not watch it despite the fact that Samoa Joe is on there, because you see Person A has better things to do with his time than watch garbage. So instead Person A decides to watch RoH instead. Does that make them any less "hardcore"? Absolutely not. It makes them discerning. So let's cut this argument short right here.