ROH Supercard of Honor - April 1, 2022 live on PPV

[Comrade Khan]

You keep trying to separate Elite from ROH and that’s an irrelevant point. If Elite stayed, they’re still part of the ROH roster lol

ROH didn’t need to draw without Elite because that’s not my point. My point is losing the Elite caused ROH to lose its main draws lol

Ok dude lol. U dont get it its fine.

 

[Apoho Creed]

After all these Shows these past 2 days this is me. Joe returns to ROH to put on classics vs Lethal, Gresham, and vs that Roster in AEW yes please.

 

[Smart Marx]

Ok dude lol. U dont get it its fine.

Nah. You don’t get it. And it’s also fine.

 

[Comrade Khan]

This is like Impact losing Josh Alexander, Moose, VBD, Ace Austin and Sami Callihan and acting like it shouldn’t hurt business.

Things i never said for 100. Please stop. Im saying roh werent a draw outside the elite, whom they didnt create , book well or even have under ft contract. Those guys got over in japan n ppl wanted to see them. Watch the msg show n tell me whos over in roh n in njpw. Imo ur being revisionist n not realising roh was coasting off those guys n njpw while failing to up their brand. Tjats why they failed. They were already dead without njpw in 2018 , n before that wen they lost way more to nxt . But its like nah its cuz dudes who got over in japan didnt resign + an old ass tag team. Cmon man, they had way more problems than that n if aew didnt kill them wwe would have. Done repeating myself, sorry u disagree n think its aew fault. I think its wrong

 

[Comrade Khan]

Ig joe, bryan, punk , roderick hero, steen and co wasnt a factor

 

[Smart Marx]

Things i never said for 100. Please stop. Im saying roh werent a draw outside the elite, whom they didnt create , book well or even have under ft contract. Those guys got over in japan n ppl wanted to see them. Watch the msg show n tell me whos over in roh n in njpw. Imo ur being revisionist n not realising roh was coasting off those guys n njpw while failing to up their brand. Tjats why they failed. They were already dead without njpw in 2018 , n before that wen they lost way more to nxt . But its like nah its cuz dudes who got over in japan didnt resign + an old ass tag team. Cmon man, they had way more problems than that n if aew didnt kill them wwe would have. Done repeating myself, sorry u disagree n think its aew fault. I think its wrong

Weren’t not going to agree here. I don’t think it matters who “created” the Elite. They were still their top draws at the time.

I feel the Elite leaving put then in a vacuum they were never able to pull out of and you don’t. We’re at an impasse and that’s fine.

It’s also not revisionist because I actually watched ROH and NJPW at the time. I thoroughly enjoyed their product at the time. The Elite, Bullet Club, SoCal, Kingdom, etc were all highly entertaining.

So let’s just drop it.

 

[CakeWalker]

NXT 2014 was the start of the the decline of ROH - for good while NXT and ROH could even have been seen as direct competition - but only of them was acquiring talent from the other promotion including Impact and Japan.

The truth is NXT was only created to kill off secondary tier promotions like ROHs.

AEW creation was just the final nail in the coffin.

 

[Smart Marx]

Ig joe, bryan, punk , roderick hero, steen and co wasnt a factor

Those first three names were gone like 10 years before this.

 

[Smart Marx]

NXT 2014 was the start of the the decline of ROH - for good while NXT and ROH could even have been seen as direct competition - but only of them was acquiring talent from the other promotion including Impact and Japan.

The truth is NXT was only created to kill off secondary tier promotions like ROHs.

AEW creation was just the final nail in the coffin.

I would even mostly agree with this. NXT started the damage and AEW finished it off.

Shows like ROH and ECW back in the 90s could survive being poached if they had enough time to build new stars, but they can’t lose too many of their top stars all once while building new ones.

 

[CakeWalker]

Truth is - in a saturated market, a competitor will always lose its place if its doesn't have the finances, there is controversy or a new arrival is more appealing. The real WHAT IF question is - what would the scene look like if Chikara hadn't been forced to close down and what if TK had allowed the Forbidden Door to be open for ROH, rather than double bolting them out in the cold whilst doing deals with Impact and GCW instead

 

[Smart Marx]

I’ve said for years AEW coming in definitely stretched the entire market thinner than was necessarily good.

MLW, ROH, Impact, NWA etc all had to fight for whomever WWE and AEW didn’t take. If MLW and Impact merged or Impact and ROH, they’d have been in a stronger position. At least AEW does the forbidden door.

 

[CakeWalker]

In terms of business sense. I actually think, it was a ruthless - but clever decision for TK - to not open the door to ROH though. Whether the product had dipped or not dependent on your opinion of what is good wrestling. Covid was drowning them - and there was no benefit in aiding them at all.

 

[CakeWalker]

Indie workers 100% used to aspire to work for ROH though

 

[CakeWalker]

in a way that companies like GCW - have now taken over that roll as an indie pull.

 

[Smart Marx]

In terms of business sense. I actually think, it was a ruthless - but clever decision for TK - to not open the door to ROH though. Whether the product had dipped or not dependent on your opinion of what is good wrestling. Covid was drowning them - and there was no benefit in aiding them at all.

Yes and no. The benefit to AEW probably wasn’t there at first, but if their boost helped them swim maybe their continued partnership could have yielded results, but AEW is big it didn’t even stick with their Impact deal.

So yeah, one with ROH wasn’t never in the cards.