Monday Night Raw Preview & Live Discussion - 12/2/2013

[Smart Marx]

Flair doesn't deserve this but most of his title reigns were done in a time when they held the titles longer so his feat is still greater. Cena on has had that many reigns because of the hot potato championships they did plus injuries he sustained.

Flairs accomplishment is still better than Cenas.

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Even if we looked at that way I don't think WWE should even toy with Cena getting any closer to Flair's record.

I really think Cena surpassing Flair is inevitable at this point, although I don't want to see it happen. Sadly, quite a few guys have more reigns than they should because of the hot swap periods WWE likes to have.


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I don't think it's inevitable at all. John Cena is nearing in at 10 years in the main event.

There's no reason he needs to continue to hold the belt. There are new talents to be risen to the top.

 

[Wang Chung]

Even if we looked at that way I don't think WWE should even toy with Cena getting any closer to Flair's record.


I don't think it's inevitable at all. John Cena is nearing in at 10 years in the main event.

There's no reason he needs to continue to hold the belt. There are new talents to be risen to the top.

Which is all true but he sells still and that is why he will be around the main event. Honestly I would prefer it be DB or Punk over Orton or Cena that would unify the belts even though I am against it. Will anyone match the reign lengths of Bruno, Hogan, or even Flair in this oversatuated age or day of wrestling. NOPE.

Technically add up Flairs reign lengths to Cenas or Hogans or Brunos and he won't he close to amount of time wearing the strap.

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[Smart Marx]

Which is all true but he sells still and that is why he will be around the main event. Honestly I would prefer it be DB or Punk over Orton or Cena that would unify the belts even though I am against it. Will anyone match the reign lengths of Bruno, Hogan, or even Flair in this oversatuated age or day of wrestling. NOPE.

Technically add up Flairs reign lengths to Cenas or Hogans or Brunos and he won't he close to amount of time wearing the strap.

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The thing is Cena doesn't have to be the world champion to have main event matches on PPV. He was in the majority of the main events when CM Punk was champion.

That being said WWE can find new draws, they just have to put faith in other people. They have yet to see what Daniel Bryan can do with the ball.

 

[Wang Chung]

The thing is Cena doesn't have to be the world champion to have main event matches on PPV. He was in the majority of the main events when CM Punk was champion.

That being said WWE can find new draws, they just have to put faith in other people. They have yet to see what Daniel Bryan can do with the ball.

I do agree with this but I believe that this is their way of saying thank you for being so loyal and busting your ass the way you do. I would love for DB to have the belt for longer than a day. The crowd would go nuts.

This is the problem with them getting rid of belts with all the talent they have and that bottle neck being created.

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[Cyrus Riddle]

The thing is Cena doesn't have to be the world champion to have main event matches on PPV. He was in the majority of the main events when CM Punk was champion.

That being said WWE can find new draws, they just have to put faith in other people. They have yet to see what Daniel Bryan can do with the ball.

Unfortunately, WWE has huge trust issues when it comes to new top guys. I'd love for new blood to rise, but they never give anyone enough time to build before they pull the plug. They're in fear of any ratings drop or negative reviews from their target audience.


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[Smart Marx]

I do agree with this but I believe that this is their way of saying thank you for being so loyal and busting your ass the way you do. I would love for DB to have the belt for longer than a day. The crowd would go nuts.

This is the problem with them getting rid of belts with all the talent they have and that bottle neck being created.

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The problem isn't the amount of championships. There was only one championship during Steve Austin's day in the sun and he only had the belt six times. The difference is WWE knew how to build new stars while they milk the current ones. WWE right now only knows how to milk their current ones. As a matter of fact the world championship is WHY he has held the belt so many times. It was easier for WWE to give Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, The Miz, Alberto Del Rio, Sheamus, Mark Henry and CM Punk a run with the belt and still have another to hand to Edge, Orton and Cena to inflate their reigns. All three of those men have held 10 world titles and they'd have much less if there had been one world title. Edge (aka Triple H or HBK) as much as I love him would be 3 or 4 tops. Orton I'm guessing 6 (aka Austin) if you count his recent push and John Cena (aka the Rock) at about 8 or 9.

 

[Wang Chung]

The problem isn't the amount of championships. There was only one championship during Steve Austin's day in the sun and he only had the belt six times. The difference is WWE knew how to build new stars while they milk the current ones. WWE right now only knows how to milk their current ones. As a matter of fact the world championship is WHY he has held the belt so many times. It was easier for WWE to give Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, The Miz, Alberto Del Rio, Sheamus, Mark Henry and CM Punk a run with the belt and still have another to hand to Edge, Orton and Cena to inflate their reigns. All three of those men have held 10 world titles and they'd have much less if there had been one world title. Edge (aka Triple H or HBK) as much as I love him would be 3 or 4 tops. Orton I'm guessing 6 (aka Austin) if you count his recent push and John Cena (aka the Rock) at about 8 or 9.

Was it them building new stars out of necessity due to WCW pushing them or them truly wanting that new star. Austin didn't have the belt that many times because of that bottle neck and it passed around to the Rick, HHH, UT and Mandkind. With a few others tossed in there but they were the ones who held them the most.

Granted if they only had that one title the guys you mentioned might have only held that title once or twice but it also allowed us to see Daniel Bryan get elevated to the top had there not been so much opportunity we might no see him up there along with Punk. We would have had the title passed around to Cena, Orton, HBK, UT, Big Show, Mark Henry, Edge, Lesnar and possibly the likes of Sheamus, Del Rio, Mysterio, Swagger. As good as DB and Punk are they would probably have been buried deep in the IC and US title scene to this day. Same thing as when Stone Cold was around just a different group of people holding to the top.

They should have kept the brand split separate and run it like it was its own company, but we wont have that and without a lack of real competition from another company yet. We will continue to get whatever Vince and Co wants instead of real compelling stuff.

 

[Smart Marx]

Was it them building new stars out of necessity due to WCW pushing them or them truly wanting that new star. Austin didn't have the belt that many times because of that bottle neck and it passed around to the Rick, HHH, UT and Mandkind. With a few others tossed in there but they were the ones who held them the most.

Granted if they only had that one title the guys you mentioned might have only held that title once or twice but it also allowed us to see Daniel Bryan get elevated to the top had there not been so much opportunity we might no see him up there along with Punk. We would have had the title passed around to Cena, Orton, HBK, UT, Big Show, Mark Henry, Edge, Lesnar and possibly the likes of Sheamus, Del Rio, Mysterio, Swagger. As good as DB and Punk are they would probably have been buried deep in the IC and US title scene to this day. Same thing as when Stone Cold was around just a different group of people holding to the top.

They should have kept the brand split separate and run it like it was its own company, but we wont have that and without a lack of real competition from another company yet. We will continue to get whatever Vince and Co wants instead of real compelling stuff.

WCW or not WWE still needs to look to tomorrow. John Cena can't be the only star. If he were to die tomorrow, what WWE do?

And that's exactly my point... with only one championship WWE knew how to properly spread the main event scene. There was always three or more top challengers and every year someone knew was elevated to the main event. They never rested on any group of talent.

Despite having two championships it always revolved around three people. Three people who each held the championship 10 times. Of course Austin was going to be the anchor, but you still had Rock, Triple, Undertaker, Mick Foley, HBK and etc who each held the title equally as much and equally as pushed. Each superstar had an era almost where they were the top guy. Today even when CM Punk was WWE Champion, John Cena was still the star. When Miz was champion, Cena was the draw. Not to mention when you have two world titles there should be twice as many main eventers, not the same as when there was one. As for whether or not certain people would have made it to world champion, probably not. But, not everyone should. That's what made the IC title mean something. Guys who busted their ass like world champions for a championship they made their own. Although I believe CM Punk would have broke out either way. Daniel Bryan probably not though.

The brand extension failed on almost every level. The only way they ever should have attempted it is if they did what was planned from the beginning... run WCW as a separate brand altogether. No mixed shows or talent swaps. No drafts. Nothing that ties them together. Only trades once in a blue moon and if a talent was "fired" in a story, they could use that to trade the talent. But, only sparingly...

 

[Wang Chung]

But they only did it because they were losing the ratings to WCW had that not occurred the. They would have continued with the same formula that they are doing now. Those guys only rose because they had no choice but to make something. As much as we both loved that era of wrestling we both know it was only because Vince had to do something. If WCW had won the whole rating war and co tinued to be profitable would it have been sold? I doubt it. So Vince put out the best he could do and beat Turner and we have what we have now.

Crna can still be the guy without the title but its something that we probably won't see much of since he could potentially be around for another 10-15 year's. Will he still be the top dog at that time probably not he might end up like Taker. I still think we will be seeing a huge amount of talent getting the axe if they get rid if all the double titles soon. Which I have no problem with if they can all keep pace with both shows and the house shows without major injuries.

If Cena were to die tomorrow Punk would get that spot I can almost guarantee that.

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[Smart Marx]

But they only did it because they were losing the ratings to WCW had that not occurred the. They would have continued with the same formula that they are doing now. Those guys only rose because they had no choice but to make something. As much as we both loved that era of wrestling we both know it was only because Vince had to do something. If WCW had won the whole rating war and co tinued to be profitable would it have been sold? I doubt it. So Vince put out the best he could do and beat Turner and we have what we have now.

Crna can still be the guy without the title but its something that we probably won't see much of since he could potentially be around for another 10-15 year's. Will he still be the top dog at that time probably not he might end up like Taker. I still think we will be seeing a huge amount of talent getting the axe if they get rid if all the double titles soon. Which I have no problem with if they can all keep pace with both shows and the house shows without major injuries.

If Cena were to die tomorrow Punk would get that spot I can almost guarantee that.

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Because of WCW Vince LEARNED what the right thing to do is. That doesn't mean he had to get lazy and stop booking shit right because of the lack of direct competition. He still wants people to buy PPV, right? He wants a main event scene ready in case John Cena ans Randy Orton crash their plan on the way to TLC? If you listen to any WWE commentary they say the key to successful booking is always doing something new and always creating new stars. That didn't stop applying when WCW went under. As a matter of fact WWE continued to build new stars for about three years after the fact. It wasn't until John Cena that Vince McMahon went that's it. There it is! I don't need anyone else!

I don't know if you noticed, but WWE already cut the roster down. The size of the roster had to with the brand extension, not the world title. If all the same workers are working both shows, it only needs a certain amount of talent to work them. They had the same pool to work with for both championships. The only thing that's going to change is that small pool will now focus on the WWE Championship only and the lower card guys will elevate the IC and US titles.

I would hope Punk and Bryan got that spot. However it shouldn't take death for new talent to shine.

 

[Wang Chung]

Because of WCW Vince LEARNED what the right thing to do is. That doesn't mean he had to get lazy and stop booking shit right because of the lack of direct competition. He still wants people to buy PPV, right? He wants a main event scene ready in case John Cena ans Randy Orton crash their plan on the way to TLC? If you listen to any WWE commentary they say the key to successful booking is always doing something new and always creating new stars. That didn't stop applying when WCW went under. As a matter of fact WWE continued to build new stars for about three years after the fact. It wasn't until John Cena that Vince McMahon went that's it. There it is! I don't need anyone else!

I don't know if you noticed, but WWE already cut the roster down. The size of the roster had to with the brand extension, not the world title. If all the same workers are working both shows, it only needs a certain amount of talent to work them. They had the same pool to work with for both championships. The only thing that's going to change is that small pool will now focus on the WWE Championship only and the lower card guys will elevate the IC and US titles.

I would hope Punk and Bryan got that spot. However it shouldn't take death for new talent to shine.

Hence why he got Lazy no one to challenge him and why most people now shit in TNA because Vince says this is how it should be done. As much as I love TNA they have been shooting their own feet and have the right to be shit on.

If Vince kept up what he was doing he might have continued to pull better ratings but he went stupid with Cena or he just said I have the monopoly and no one is around to challenge my thought processes.

He found his next meal ticket with Cena and he continued to move forward with it after getting burned by Lesnar who would have been huge for them and Cena took the most of his opportunity and ran with it.

UFC also stole people too since its real and WWE is not. So he should have found a way to keep people but he didn't.

He might have said since the brand extension failed screw it I will keep on pushing Cena down everyone's throats until he can't go anymore. Nit saying that we haven't seen any guys pushed up because we have. It's just I think he has panicked every time Cena has become injured and the ratings have dropped when he is out.

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[JakeYourBooty]

I can't be the only one that thinks each guys grabs a belt and we still have two champions?

 

[Sabretooth]

Alright guys here we go with CM Punk

 

[Sabretooth]

Glad to see we're off to a good start

 

[Smart Marx]

Glad to see we're off to a good start

Always a great start with the GOATs.