SmackDown Live Live SmackDown Discussion thread, August 11th 2023: Austin Theory defends the US Championship

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Comrade Khan

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No I meant like WWE allowed her to run with an idea and gave her a push for a gimmick she came up with. She wanted to get herself over and WWE allowed it except that she didn’t actually get over :lol
ah yes. I am sure there are other examples but I can't remember any

an AEW example would be when they let Miro do his Gucci Gamer gimmick :heston terrible
 
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Cwalker

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To this day that’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen. I don’t even care.
It’s literally watching someone’s push get pushed off a cliff in real time
 

Deezy

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You're not wrong.

But WWE in the last 2 decades has been particularly bad at this. The lack of competition means they dont have to appease the fans because there's nowhere else for the fans to turn too, except turning off. So they've stubbornly pushed who they want too push and generally ignored any/everyone that gets organically over.

This matters greatly when it comes to LA Knight. In all likelihood they'll do nothing at all with him, hence why he's just working with comedy jobbers like Hit Row and Miz. No one the WWE actually cares about is being used to put Knight over, and no one credible is putting him over.



He didn't need to have credible matches with Orton though. He just needed to be pushed. The fans were chanting for Zack Ryder during segments featuring The Rock when Ryder wasn't even on the show at all. We just wanted to see Ryder get utilised and pushed, he busted his ass by himself to get over and was punished for it. We just wanted to see the guy get utilised and get to amount to something being so over. Instead WWE kept him off TV for the most part, jobbed him out when he was on TV and then had Cena cuck him and Kane kill him.

And if WWE had of gotten behind him they could have tweaked the character and made him into a more serious Main Event character anyway.

But that said, speaking of dork characters. Seth Rollins current character is the dorkiest character to ever hit the Main Event and most people accept him being at the top of the card endlessly.

Whats your problem with Wrestlers getting organically over? Do you prefer Vince and HHH picking your favourite wrestlers for you and just liking who they want you too like?



I wouldn't complain if WWE completely gave up on him and turned him into a comedy character.

Its then up to him to hit the Indys and do every steroid he can find and get himself rehired several years down the line.
Getting tv time even if you lose matches isn't a "burial".

Getting TV time is enough of a push.

Also, Triple H handpicks over the past 5 years in NXT :nah2

Sorry, I don't think scrawny midgets who spam superkicks are stars.......Yeah, I'm those guys.
 

Deezy

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LOL Miro........not on TV for almost a year......totally not a burial.
 

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Getting tv time even if you lose matches isn't a "burial".

Getting TV time is enough of a push.

Also, Triple H handpicks over the past 5 years in NXT :nah2

Sorry, I don't think scrawny midgets who spam superkicks are stars.......Yeah, I'm those guys.

Cool, so you're just going to ignore most of my points and post some arrogant gif...

As far as scrawny midgets who spam superkicks go, you're preaching to the quire there. Modern Wrestling has so many issues, but near the top of the list is the abundance of bland charisma vacuum failed gymnasts, as is the repetitive movesets where everyone spams the exact same moves like superkicks.

But the people that WWE dont push, particularly in the modern era are the opposite of that. LA Knight being a prime example, is he really a scrawny midget who spams superkicks, or is he the opposite? Its the charismatic workers like Knight that get over on their own and are buried for it because WWE would rather push some insomnia cure like Damien Priest or Drew McIntyre or put a stream of failed circus acrobats all over their programming.

When you're talking about Wrestlers getting over and not being pushed its not the sort of wrestlers you're dismissing here, its the guys with charisma, personality, mic skills, and that intangible quality. I genuinely believe though WWE dont want actual Stars anymore, they dont want anyone who could outshine the WWE brand itself so they hold back anyone with those Star making qualities and push clowns like Seth Rollins instead, who makes Zack Ryders Long Island Iced Z Character seem like a serious gimmick.

The simplest of things in WWE should just be that if someone gets over, they get pushed as a result. If someone is connecting with the fanbase give that person to the fanbase. Dont punish that wrestler and piss of the fans by just continuing to shove the same few tired, bland people down the fans throats.

Because you can see the building blocks that they are taking with him now. He's had the momentum building matches against the Hit Row jobbers, Sheamus on SmackDown and the battle royal win at SummerSlam. Now we get to see how he can do on the mic against a proven guy in The Miz, where he isn't just firing off zingers on guys and not getting anything thrown back.

Maybe they go back to their old ways or maybe they don't, I understand the scepticism but I think already putting him alongside missed opportunities of the past is very harsh.

But why would I have any faith in this time being different? Why should I give the WWE the benefit of the doubt when the vast, VAST majority of the time when there's an LA Knight situation they punish that wrestler for getting over and do less than nothing with them? Whys this time different? Why should I think its different? So far nothing they've done with Knight should give anyone any reason to think it'll be different.

He's squashing Hit Row every other week, thats meaningless. Throw away 2 minute segments with Knight squashing people that the WWE seem to detest. A jobber Battle Royal, the most pointless of wins. Even Miz, as much as I wish Miz was a somebody in WWE and had some credibility he's probably just the most prominent jobber in WWE, and has only ended 1 match/segment in the last year not being jobbed out. Feeding Miz to Knight means nothing, because he's someone that WWE have zero plans for and beating Miz means nothing and doesn't impact anyone that the WWE cares about. I mean as @Jeff Valley Driver pointed out, Feuding with and even beating Miz hasn't benefitted anyone in a long time. I honestly cant remember the last person that looked good after beating The Miz. Miz is irrelevant and has been for 5 years or so now.

Until Knight gets a win over one of the WWE's chosen ones, or gets TV time over one of the WWE's chosen ones, until they show that they value LA Knight at least on, if not above the level of theur hand picked, overpushed, forced chosen ones they're doing nothing with him.
 
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Comrade Khan

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@Savage I would not bother debating anything with Deezy, he is not capable or doing so in good faith and mostly just wants to be a douchebag contrarian, it's his whole shtick. half the forum has him on ignore because he's a massive loser.
 
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Dale

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But why would I have any faith in this time being different? Why should I give the WWE the benefit of the doubt when the vast, VAST majority of the time when there's an LA Knight situation they punish that wrestler for getting over and do less than nothing with them? Whys this time different? Why should I think its different? So far nothing they've done with Knight should give anyone any reason to think it'll be different.

He's squashing Hit Row every other week, thats meaningless. Throw away 2 minute segments with Knight squashing people that the WWE seem to detest. A jobber Battle Royal, the most pointless of wins. Even Miz, as much as I wish Miz was a somebody in WWE and had some credibility he's probably just the most prominent jobber in WWE, and has only ended 1 match/segment in the last year not being jobbed out. Feeding Miz to Knight means nothing, because he's someone that WWE have zero plans for and beating Miz means nothing and doesn't impact anyone that the WWE cares about. I mean as @Jeff Valley Driver pointed out, Feuding with and even beating Miz hasn't benefitted anyone in a long time. I honestly cant remember the last person that looked good after beating The Miz. Miz is irrelevant and has been for 5 years or so now.

Until Knight gets a win over one of the WWE's chosen ones, or gets TV time over one of the WWE's chosen ones, until they show that they value LA Knight at least on, if not above the level of theur hand picked, overpushed, forced chosen ones they're doing nothing with him.
You don't have to have faith in this time being different, nor did I say you should. You're free to feel however you like, I just merely pointed out that there's visible building blocks being put down and whether you want to believe anything will come from it is your choice.

He's not likely to get a win over any of "the chosen ones" any time soon because he has virtually zero credibility, hence the need to build him up and not just force him into the picture.

It honestly just seems like you want everything right off the bat and if you don't get it then it's not good enough or they're being wasted and don't see any value in them.
 

Sabretooth

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Yeah @Savage i agree with you about WWE not pushing stars who get themselves over but you’re jumping the gun with Knight. WWE are allowing him to do his thing right now. They can’t throw him into a main event feud immediately. There’s nothing wrong with how he’s been booked. You might say Miz is irrelevant but he’s one of the most decorated superstars of all time and can go toe to toe with knight in promo battles so I’m all for it now.
 

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@Savage I would not bother debating anything with Deezy, he is not capable or doing so in good faith and mostly just wants to be a douchebag contrarian, it's his whole shtick. half the forum has him on ignore because he's a massive loser.

Oh look, someone getting away with insulting members because they are mentally unstable and allowed to get away with it again. :fplam:
 

ETE

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You don't have to have faith in this time being different, nor did I say you should. You're free to feel however you like, I just merely pointed out that there's visible building blocks being put down and whether you want to believe anything will come from it is your choice.

He's not likely to get a win over any of "the chosen ones" any time soon because he has virtually zero credibility, hence the need to build him up and not just force him into the picture.

It honestly just seems like you want everything right off the bat and if you don't get it then it's not good enough or they're being wasted and don't see any value in them.

But those building blocks aren't building anything though. He's toiling away working with the people at the absolute bottom of the WWE's totem pole. Nothing is lost to the WWE by having Knight squash the likes of Hit Row and Miz because those guys are worthless, and in all honestly may as well be released because WWE has zero plans for them. Geeking out The Miz, or worse yet having The Miz cost him matches doesn't give Knight credibility. You could book LA Knight to squash The Miz in 5 seconds every week for a year straight and it wouldn't make Knight anymore credible because as much as The Miz deserves so much better, the WWE treat him like he's a dog turd on HHH's boot.

Be honest here, why shouldn't Knight go over Austin Theory? Give me one good reason why Knight who is insanely over shouldn't go over Theory who is one of the least over people on the entire roster? Theory's a chosen one, and if WWE had Knight go over him that would be a step towards showing that they will push LA. Now like many of the anti-organically over crowd you seem to think that fans like me want the likes of LA Knight pushed to the moon instantly and given the World Title. Which is the impression I get from you talking about Knight needing to be built up. But he doesn't need to be built up, the guy is over enough to be a solid upper midcarder and US Title guy. I dont need to see LA Knight pushed to the moon immediately, I just want to see something that tells me that this time WWE are actually going to get behind an organically over Wrestler and not punish them for getting over without Vince/HHH's permission. I'd be happy to see Knight get a US Title run, I want Knight to get a US Title run before a World Title run.

I have a long list of things I hate about the mess that is modern Pro Wrestling, and Super pushes is on there. Too many guys are rushed to the World Title and do so very little before getting to the Main Event. Most of WWE's Main Event scene for the last 10-15 years never had a great midcard Title run or even a midcard feud that set them on the path to the top. They just debut and are instantly pushed to the moon.

So I dont actually need everything right off the bat, I just need to see that this time is different. Squashing Hit Row and Miz doesn't make me think its different. Hell if it was 2016-19 Miz it'd mean something but WWE stopped caring about the Miz 4-5 years ago. Knight going over him doesn't raise his credibility or build him up to anything.

Yeah @Savage i agree with you about WWE not pushing stars who get themselves over but you’re jumping the gun with Knight. WWE are allowing him to do his thing right now. They can’t throw him into a main event feud immediately. There’s nothing wrong with how he’s been booked. You might say Miz is irrelevant but he’s one of the most decorated superstars of all time and can go toe to toe with knight in promo battles so I’m all for it now.

Again though who said anything about the Main Event scene? Give Knight a feud that means something, give him a win that means something. Do something with LA Knight that they do with their chosen ones. If WWE is going to push someone they never have them wasting their time toiling away with The Miz.

Because that's the thing with WWE when they get behind someone its obvious, and they haven't shown that with Knight. They've shown that they're willing to do just enough with him, keep him on TV sure, but not have his booking interfere with the pushes of any of the bland ass chosen ones who combined on their best days couldn't out promo LA Knight on his worst day.

Thats the thing with this as well for me.

I'm still a Wrestling tragic. I still remember how fun it used to be, and we get glimmers of that occasionally. But for the most part modern Pro Wrestling feels like you're watching the worst people on the roster get pushed to the top. I look at Raw in particular with Rollins, Judgement Day and Cody Rhodes 80's throwback Babyface gimmick and its just such a dull, bland, lifeless, non-entertaining scene. Its the most boring people that get pushed the hardest, like Priest getting MITB he's just another tall, greasy haired, bearded blob of blandness that WWE have gotten behind. None of these guys seem to light the World on fire or anything. Even when WWE get behind someone new, its a Damien Priest who is exactly the same as all the other people they push, instead of getting behind someone different and fresh and organically over like LA Knight.

I said it before but the simplest thing in Pro Wrestling should be that if someone gets over, you push them. But that's not the case anymore. When someone gets over they go nowhere while same few people, or worse carbon copies of the same few people take up all the pushes.



Who said anything about the Main Event scene?
 

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I get that this was Edge's anniversary thingy but only four matches ? :francis