Hard to Kill Discussion Thread

[utvolzac]

I can already tell you he won't accept any high school argument, he wants you to show an example of women beating men at the highest level possible in a physical sport. Ain't no point in debating when you give him easy posts to reply to so he can ignore my questiosn

Sorry, I wasn’t ignoring your question. Was leaving work after my last post.

I understand their needs to be a certain level of suspension of disbelief to enjoy pro wrestling. I.E. a piledriver not crippling someone. And theres a fairly established baseline for what’s acceptable, like Chair Shots not being finishers.

But I prefer it to be presented as “realistic” as possible.

I hated the Fiend no selling a dozen Curb Stomps at HITC.

I’m not a fan of these no psychology Meltzer 5 star spotfests like Gargano vs Cole where they spam finishers with constant false finishes for 25 minutes.

I dislike Rey Mysterio going over Heavyweights due to the ridiculous size/strength disadvantages.

And I hated the cartoonish supernatural shit WWE always did with the Undertaker.

Because the optics of these things seem ridiculous. Inter gender wrestling falls into this category for my personal taste.

I was a competitive athlete all the way thru college and I’m well aware of the MASSIVE speed/strength/durability advantages between men and women, which becomes even greater as the levels of competition get higher. It’s literally why the separate the sexes in the first place. So my brain can’t uncondition these biological facts to enjoy Tessa beating men. It becomes as corny as the Undertaker shooting lightning bolts from his hands. Regardless of what you think about Sami Callahan, Impact is presenting him as a top level competitor, in which Tessa would have no chance.

There’s a reason why the UFC never tried to capitalize on intergender fights with Ronda Rousey at the height of her popularity or why no governing body would sanction it. Ronda vs a slob off the couch, sure she would win. Ronda vs a trained 135lb male, forget it, she’d get killed.

I do not hate women or women athletes. I’ve always supported Title IX at the amateur level and think it’s a good thing for sports.

I enjoyed the Wonder Woman movies as much as the next guy because in that universe she’s an amazon with super strength. If this was Lucha Underground and Tessa’s character was a space alien with super powers than I could get behind it.

But as far as I know, pro wrestling is supposed to be set in the real world in real world conditions. So telling me Tessa Blanchard could beat the World Champion man despite overwhelming biological disadvantages is like saying Brittany Griener could beat LeBron in a game of 1 on 1.

 

[Smart Marx]

What's weird is I support Tessa being the Impact Champion and hated most of the Lucha Underground intergender matches.

 

[Chris]

Sorry, I wasn’t ignoring your question. Was leaving work after my last post.

I understand their needs to be a certain level of suspension of disbelief to enjoy pro wrestling. I.E. a piledriver not crippling someone. And theres a fairly established baseline for what’s acceptable, like Chair Shots not being finishers.

But I prefer it to be presented as “realistic” as possible.

I hated the Fiend no selling a dozen Curb Stomps at HITC.

I’m not a fan of these no psychology Meltzer 5 star spotfests like Gargano vs Cole where they spam finishers with constant false finishes for 25 minutes.

I dislike Rey Mysterio going over Heavyweights due to the ridiculous size/strength disadvantages.

And I hated the cartoonish supernatural shit WWE always did with the Undertaker.

Because the optics of these things seem ridiculous. Inter gender wrestling falls into this category for my personal taste.

I was a competitive athlete all the way thru college and I’m well aware of the MASSIVE speed/strength/durability advantages between men and women, which becomes even greater as the levels of competition get higher. It’s literally why the separate the sexes in the first place. So my brain can’t uncondition these biological facts to enjoy Tessa beating men. It becomes as corny as the Undertaker shooting lightning bolts from his hands. Regardless of what you think about Sami Callahan, Impact is presenting him as a top level competitor, in which Tessa would have no chance.

There’s a reason why the UFC never tried to capitalize on intergender fights with Ronda Rousey at the height of her popularity or why no governing body would sanction it. Ronda vs a slob off the couch, sure she would win. Ronda vs a trained 135lb male, forget it, she’d get killed.

I do not hate women or women athletes. I’ve always supported Title IX at the amateur level and think it’s a good thing for sports.

I enjoyed the Wonder Woman movies as much as the next guy because in that universe she’s an amazon with super strength. If this was Lucha Underground and Tessa’s character was a space alien with super powers than I could get behind it.

But as far as I know, pro wrestling is supposed to be set in the real world in real world conditions. So telling me Tessa Blanchard could beat the World Champion man despite overwhelming biological disadvantages is like saying Brittany Griener could beat LeBron in a game of 1 on 1.

These are all fair points for sure. I can just agree to disagree with you on it if you're cool with the fact that I don't have a problem with this. You dislike pretty much everything I'd use as an example of being more unbelievable than Tessa winning already, so fair enough overall, I just still think you're overanalyzing things a tad and you could be a bit more looser with that suspension of disbelief lol the only side effect would be you enjoying the business more instead of getting upset with decisions being made.

 

[Smart Marx]

These are all fair points for sure. I can just agree to disagree with you on it if you're cool with the fact that I don't have a problem with this. You dislike pretty much everything I'd use as an example of being more unbelievable than Tessa winning already, so fair enough overall, I just still think you're overanalyzing things a tad and you could be a bit more looser with that suspension of disbelief lol the only side effect would be you enjoying the business more instead of getting upset with decisions being made.

I'd say those things are more unbelievable, but for me I think character and story unbelievability is easier to swallow than biological.

I just have to roll with it when Taker ascends to the top of the TitanTron. I also thinking booking is key.

I found the booking of most of the LU intergender matches to be awful. WrestleCircus does them well and now Impact does.

 

[Chris]

I'd say those things are more unbelievable, but for me I think character and story unbelievability is easier to swallow than biological.

I just have to roll with it when Taker ascends to the top of the TitanTron. I also thinking booking is key.

I found the booking of most of the LU intergender matches to be awful. WrestleCircus does them well and now Impact does.

So really I think you could easily be a fan of intergender wrestling as a whole and not just exceptions like Tessa if they were all booked better, and with the right men and women involved. It's not intergender wrestling you specifically don't like, it's how it's been being done by LU and other companies that you're not a fan of. I mean I'm basically just arguing the semantics of your own opinions now but that's mostly just bc I like picking other people's brains But really it just always comes back to that point on if something is entertaining then it's not hard to suspend your disbelief, but if it's just whatever then suspension of disbelief comes into play more.

Personally, I'm just not a fan of the term but that's bc I think wrestling fans suspend their belief every single time they watch wrestling, it just some people are willing to suspend it more than others

 

[utvolzac]

These are all fair points for sure. I can just agree to disagree with you on it if you're cool with the fact that I don't have a problem with this. You dislike pretty much everything I'd use as an example of being more unbelievable than Tessa winning already, so fair enough overall, I just still think you're overanalyzing things a tad and you could be a bit more looser with that suspension of disbelief lol the only side effect would be you enjoying the business more instead of getting upset with decisions being made.

Fair enough. Everyone has a line where suspension of disbelief stops being entertaining.

For me, this is not a good look for Impact and really hurts the credibility for their men’s roster.

 

[Deezy]

 

[utvolzac]

Are you sexist? Just admit it, man. You've been proven wrong like three times now.

How so? Its not sexist to say that at the highest levels of athletic competition women cannot compete with men it’s a fact.

You don’t think it’s odd that in the history of sports there’s never been a women good enough to play in the NBA (or division 1 college for that matter)? Or be able to hit a fastball at any level of professional baseball? How come Serena Williams never tried the men’s tour? Because her flat serve would get demolished and she self admitted that she couldn’t handle the spin the men put on the ball.

Forget combat sports, that’s out of the question. Michelle Wie and Annika Sorenstam couldn’t even make the cut in the PGA and Golf requires almost no physical strength. They had to get sponsors exemptions in order to compete.

You may question the effort of Team USA but at the end of the day they got beat badly (5-2) vs some random teenage boy. By the way same thing happened when the #5 ranked Australian women’s team played an exhibition against a teenage boys club team (7-1)

Saying women can’t compete with men athletically is not sexist it’s reality.

Here’s a link to a Duke Law study where they were trying to determine if it is ethical to allow transgender women who were born biological males to compete with biological females. They went through great lengths to compile statistical data to show the overwhelming biological advantages of male athletes vs female athletes. Is that sexist too, or is it science.

Comparing Athletic Performances: The Best Elite Women to Boys and Men

by Doriane Lambelet Coleman and Wickliffe Shreve This document is currently being updated. Please contact the above-listed authors for a copy of the original.

web.law.duke.edu

The whole argument is made pointless very easily. Any one of us can go on YouTube and search "girl beats boy" and bam... girls beating boys in everything from basketball to MMA to high school wrestling.

Terrible terrible terrible terrible terrible argument.

Any of these examples would be at very low levels of competition and nowhere near the level of professional/High Level competitive athletes which is what Tessa and Sami are presented as. Whatever your personal opinion of Sami, he’s still a professional that competes at a high level in his “sport”. (Not that I consider pro wrestling a sport, but for this sake of this argument)

 

[Jimmy King]

It’s cool Tessa that won because the story of her and Sami has been one of the best things in wrestling in recent memory, but I feel like it’s been kind of marred at least to me by the things she said in the past coming out.

Her theme still goes hard af though imo

 

[Deezy]

How so? Its not sexist to say that at the highest levels of athletic competition women cannot compete with men it’s a fact.

You don’t think it’s odd that in the history of sports there’s never been a women good enough to play in the NBA (or division 1 college for that matter)? Or be able to hit a fastball at any level of professional baseball? How come Serena Williams never tried the men’s tour? Because her flat serve would get demolished and she self admitted that she couldn’t handle the spin the men put on the ball.

Forget combat sports, that’s out of the question. Michelle Wie and Annika Sorenstam couldn’t even make the cut in the PGA and Golf requires almost no physical strength. They had to get sponsors exemptions in order to compete.

You may question the effort of Team USA but at the end of the day they got beat badly (5-2) vs some random teenage boy. By the way same thing happened when the #5 ranked Australian women’s team played an exhibition against a teenage boys club team (7-1)

Saying women can’t compete with men athletically is not sexist it’s reality.

Here’s a link to a Duke Law study where they were trying to determine if it is ethical to allow transgender women who were born biological males to compete with biological females. They went through great lengths to compile statistical data to show the overwhelming biological advantages of male athletes vs female athletes. Is that sexist too, or is it science.

Comparing Athletic Performances: The Best Elite Women to Boys and Men

by Doriane Lambelet Coleman and Wickliffe Shreve This document is currently being updated. Please contact the above-listed authors for a copy of the original.

web.law.duke.edu

Any of these examples would be at very low levels of competition and nowhere near the level of professional/High Level competitive athletes which is what Tessa and Sami are presented as. Whatever your personal opinion of Sami, he’s still a professional that competes at a high level in his “sport”.

Where were you when she beat roided up Brian Cage

 

[Smart Marx]

Where were you when she beat roided up Brian Cage

I still need to see that match.

Tessa and Cage had a great match at WrestleCircus.

 

[Jimmy King]

I still need to see that match.

Tessa and Cage had a great match at WrestleCircus.

They had a pretty fun match at Bar Wrestling awhile back too. I think it was either last year or the year before

 

[utvolzac]

Where were you when she beat roided up Brian Cage

She beat Brian Cage? Thats even more laughable. That dude is legit 260lb of roided muscle.

That’s ridiculous, no wonder he quit and left the company.

So Impact shits on their men’s division having them no being able to beat a 120lb female, but they have completely shit on their women’s division as well.

They might as well throw the women’s belt in the trash now. They’ve basically said it and the women in the division are inferior since it wasn’t good enough for Tessa and she needed to compete in the men’s division.

Say what you will about WWE/NXT but they’ve at least tried to present the women’s championships/division as having equal prestige as the men’s title. And that was without insulting the audience’s intelligence, which is a rarity for Vince & Co.

 

[Swamps]

If a fat guy can wrestle in the AEW women's division then this broad can wrestle dudes.

All y'all soy boys trip me out. Three of the five people who still watch impact maybe posting in here.

 

[Deezy]

I don't like seeing men punch women....must be because I've witnessed that growing up.

Guess I'm weird for that.