Hard to Kill Discussion Thread

[Petty]

okay, let's leave it at this. Some like it, some don't. But, we got a good ass event and the main event was on fire!

 

[Chris]

This argument is killing me because I liked Tessa winning...

...that said I feel spending disbelief is fine when the rules of wrestling say you can Irish whip someone or you want to believe Undertaker is a zombie because it's part of the general story, but it's harder to forget the general difference in size and strength between men and women when you see them fighting. And for the record I also found Rey Mysterio fighting larger people weird.

I think you're allowed to say you don't like an intergender match bc it's hard for YOU to suspend YOUR disbelief, that's a perfectly acceptable opinion as long as it's acknowledged that crazy shit happens in wrestling all the time and some of it is so good that you don't mind suspending that disbelief.

 

[Hidden Blaze]

This argument is killing me because I liked Tessa winning...

...that said I feel spending disbelief is fine when the rules of wrestling say you can Irish whip someone or you want to believe Undertaker is a zombie because it's part of the general story, but it's harder to forget the general difference in size and strength between men and women when you see them fighting. And for the record I also found Rey Mysterio fighting larger people weird.

I'm mad because I didn't like she won, but here I am defending the fact that she did win.

 

[utvolzac]

The whole argument is made pointless very easily. Any one of us can go on YouTube and search "girl beats boy" and bam... girls beating boys in everything from basketball to MMA to high school wrestling.

Terrible terrible terrible terrible terrible argument.

We’re not talking about some podunk high school event.

Th

See I actually disagree with your point here even though I do agree it's also a terrible argument. He was bringing up PEAK women athletes and PEAK male athletes which the real kicker here is assuming Sami is that bc he was champion but that's besides the point. He wasn't talking about any woman beating any man, but a woman beating a TOP male athlete so slightly different than what you're saying, he'd probably agree a random woman could beat a random man at stuff.

This.

I’m not talking about some podunk high school event.

These are supposed to be elite professional athletes.

Show me an example of this occurring at at a high level event

 

[Petty]

drink it innnnnnnn....

 

[Smart Marx]

I think you're allowed to say you don't like an intergender match bc it's hard for YOU to suspend YOUR disbelief, that's a perfectly acceptable opinion as long as it's acknowledged that crazy shit happens in wrestling all the time and some of it is so good that you don't mind suspending that disbelief.

True, nobody can speak for everyone but I would say most times this is polled the majority of the general audience agrees it's hard to suspend the disbelief of 125-pound women competing with men generally 70-120 pounds heavier.

 

[Grimoire Lenin]

This is stupid.

 

[Hoss]

See I actually disagree with your point here even though I do agree it's also a terrible argument. He was bringing up PEAK women athletes and PEAK male athletes which the real kicker here is assuming Sami is that bc he was champion but that's besides the point. He wasn't talking about any woman beating any man, but a woman beating a TOP male athlete so slightly different than what you're saying, he'd probably agree a random woman could beat a random man at stuff.

Even so... Sami is not a PEAK male athlete, as we've all acknowledged.

And these are two people who are at the same level of competition, regardless of divisions.

I can find proof of girls winning boys high school wrestling tournaments. As in, beating multiple boys in a row without losing.

No one would argue that it's a 50/50 thing where girls can win just as often as boys. But the fact remains that it can happen. And that's more than you could say for a large percentage of things that happen in wrestling.

 

[Chris]

True, nobody can speak for everyone but I would say most times this is polled the majority of the general audience agrees it's hard to suspend the disbelief of 125-pound women competing with men generally 70-120 pounds heavier.

And I agree with you as that poll is probably accurate...but I'd also blame a lot of that fact on some mild conditioned sexism that a lot of America (including women themselves) kind just have ingrained in them...bc those same people would MOST LIKELY be okay with suspending their disbelief to men doing even crazier shit. My opinion on the matter is just am I entertained by it or not and can I rationalize in my VERY LOOSE headcanon if something is possible lol so I'm all about suspending disbelief whenever I need to, I just need to be entertained first.

 

[Petty]

I just don't think it's as big a deal as it's being made out to be IMHO. In other words, this is indeed stupid.

 

[Chris]

Even so... Sami is not a PEAK male athlete, as we've all acknowledged.

And these are two people who are at the same level of competition, regardless of divisions.

I can find proof of girls winning boys high school wrestling tournaments. As in, beating multiple boys in a row without losing.

No one would argue that it's a 50/50 thing where girls can win just as often as boys. But the fact remains that it can happen. And that's more than you could say for a large percentage of things that happen in wrestling.

I can already tell you he won't accept any high school argument, he wants you to show an example of women beating men at the highest level possible in a physical sport. Ain't no point in debating when you give him easy posts to reply to so he can ignore my questiosn

 

[Smart Marx]

I'm mad because I didn't like she won, but here I am defending the fact that she did win.

That's not even remotely what I said.

You guys realize you can talk about specifics versus the general, right?

 

[Smart Marx]

And I agree with you as that poll is probably accurate...but I'd also blame a lot of that fact on some mild conditioned sexism that a lot of America (including women themselves) kind just have ingrained in them...bc those same people would MOST LIKELY be okay with suspending their disbelief to men doing even crazier shit. My opinion on the matter is just am I entertained by it or not and can I rationalize in my VERY LOOSE headcanon if something is possible lol so I'm all about suspending disbelief whenever I need to, I just need to be entertained first.

I really don't think it's entirely sexism. Almost every combat sport has gender and weight classes as it does make a difference.

As for that latter part EXACTLY. I'm highly entertained by Tessa and this match. So I'm not sure why people don't see why I was talking in generality. I hope to continue to see Tessa main event against men and retain her title for the foreseeable future.

 

[Petty]

this segment of the discussion...

 

[Hidden Blaze]

That's not even remotely what I said.

You guys realize you talk about specifics versus the general right?

I wasn't trying to imply that's what you said. It was more to the part you said it's killing you.


So it's killing me(or I'm mad) that I'm defending it, when I didn't want it to happen..