FWA 'The 18th Anniversary Show' || Card & Discussion Thread.

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AON

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Thank you very much for the feed back Sully. I always like hearing those comments and it's nice to hear people enjoy what I write.

The problem is though, monologue promos like this just don't work as well in today's FWA. It's all dialog, and I think this is where debuting as a new charcter for both you and Blake put you guys at a disadvantage

Hard disagree.

I've always had this opinion and I've always railed against the idea that a monologue promo is boring. Yeah, if you want me to shoot on this-Monologues and Dio has always been my bread and butter. It's what I'm best at, but now it feels like every promo needs to have like...a big fancy set up to be considered creative and get easy creativity points in the grading. And that's fine. I have nothing against that, but I truly believe that sometimes a wrestling promo can just be a wrestling promo. And you don't need a big MVH set up to be considered creative. Creativity is in words, and how you use them to paint a picture. Nothing more, nothing less, and I fully believe, a guy talking to the camera, can be considered just as creative as a big space battle, it's all in the content.
 
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Sully

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Thank you very much for the feed back Sully. I always like hearing those comments and it's nice to hear people enjoy what I write.



Hard disagree.

I've always had this opinion and I've always railed against the idea that a monologue promo is boring. Yeah, if you want me to shoot on this-Monologues and Dio has always been my bread and butter. It's what I'm best at, but now it feels like every promo needs to have like...a big fancy set up to be considered creative and get easy creativity points in the grading. And that's fine. I have nothing against that, but I truly believe that sometimes a wrestling promo can just be a wrestling promo. And you don't need a big MVH set up to be considered creative. Creativity is in words, and how you use them to paint a picture. Nothing more, nothing less, and I fully believe, a guy talking to the camera, can be considered just as creative as a big space battle, it's all in the content.

While I don't disagree with you particularly here, I don't think recent grades or title-winning promos correlate with that line of thinking.

If you're writing a promo and enjoying what you're writing, it doesn't really matter what anyone thinks. But if you're writing to get high grades, I just don't think you can truly lean on just monologue dialog. I don't think you need to go into a whole big world-building promo either, or have some elaborate backdrop with a crazy setting or parody either.

I would agree that when done right, this kind of promo takes an extra skillset that I think the other promos lack.
 

AON

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Well, I guess we'll see when the results come in. XD

Like I don't feel comfortable doing the BIG set pieces for every promo. it's good for special occasions but I don't understand why a big space opera can't lose to ...just a wrestling promo.

I've never liked the grading system, and I've been vocal about that,.
 
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THEDEVILHIMSELF

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Jack The Clipper: Love it. This was a big Chris Kennedy type monologue where Jack did a pretty good job shooting on his opponents. I think once we get to the meat where Jack starts going in on Madison and Blake, you can feel the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. "Madison Grey, Blake Taylor. You were involved in a game of Russian Roulette that you didn't even know about, and you lost. Your life was put on the line, and now you both get tossed into the pit with the lion that's gonna rip you apart. You're gonna be lucky to just survive the pain I'm bringing your way because you need to understand, when you walk down that ramp come show time…. You're not walking into a ring where you've been honing your craft for the last year. Instead? You're walking into my house. My moment. That I've been working years to get to..and you think in one night either of you can take this moment from me? See ya gotta understand, both of ya think you're ya going be in for a fight, but you're not stepping into the ring; at the anniversary show, that ring is gonna turn into a place like this" - Ohh chills. Literal chills. The part where you absolutely tear apart Blake Taylor, the MMA, and Joe Rogan had me rolling too. Those were all good parts. The problem is though, monologue promos like this just don't work as well in today's FWA. It's all dialog, and I think this is where debuting as a new charcter for both you and Blake put you guys at a disadvantage here...because it's so hard to display character development in an opening promo. I think a vignette promo like this works for an episode of Meltdown or Fallout, but when fighting in a number one contenders match it's really hard to come in and write a winning promo out of the gate for a brand new character.

I'm also going to say, and you're not going to like this and maybe it's a hot take, but there's a recurring theme with AON characters. And it's that they don't live past their gimmicks. Gimmicks only go so long, eventually like snake skin you have to shead it and evolve. But I think with Yuna, or Jack The Clipper, or Lilith, or whoever...eventually the gimmick runs itself out, and that's what I fear for Jack. The evil barber gimmick is great, but I think the biggest thing to work on is how do you evolve that. Of course I said the same exact think to Chris fucking Peacock when he debuted and here that motherfucking is still dancing around and carrying the world championship so what do I actually know?

Tommy Bedlam: Pinning XYZ as the Riddler is great. I think Superhero promos are always fun because they definitely paint this contorted point of view that you're the hero and the guy you're facing is the bad guy. Especially when in reality the lines are much more blurred. I do think the Batman/Riddler gimmick was sort of dropped halfway through and it seemed like Tommy was just Tommy. I wasn't really picturing him as Batman without because I feel like that imagery wasn't consistent, but I think you were going for like a Bruce Wayne/Tommy Bedlam sort of thing, as by Chapter 3 we do switch back over to more of a direct Batman look when the action gets going. The presentation was pretty solid with things like the ransom notes with the different background and font, along with the comic book-type action splats towards the end. I liked the ending well, and enjoyed the comedic jabs of Tommy throwing him of the roof, but he isn't dead. Nice little parody of comic book logic. But the ending in that, even after Tommy takes care of XYZ there's still going to be threats coming after his title, it's a nice staple that sort of outlines the theme of this promo pretty nicely. Not that Tommy is Batman and XYZ is The Ridder, but that Tommy sees himself as this Superhero defending this city/title, and there's always going to be threats.

Jackson Fenix: Just going to start by saying I think this is one of your best promos of all the times. We've seen a few promos where the characters speak to a duplicate version of himself, but I enjoyed this "Bad Fenix" being more like...a personification of a bad self esteem, and not just like an evil devil on the shoulder. I also enjoyed the Snitsky reference. Jackson keep having to reassure himself and ignore those negative thoughts I think is a pretty solid introduction to the promo, one that should be looped back around. The middle part with Nate and Jackson is good and shows the history between these two friends, and also Nate sort of serves as a voice for the reader in observing that something is definitely wrong with Jackson. I like the transitions in the last part. With you not having the name but just the dialog and color you can as the reader know that the voice is just in his head at that point, but when he stands in front of him the format changes again with the name. I think when we talk presentation we think fancy colors and pictures but I also think things like that are part of presentation and have more thought behind it sometimes than just a cool gif. Overall this promo was a nice little feel good one, with Jackson battling his inner demons. It really gives major babyface vibes, The Disney Channel feel good stuff might be a little too on the nose at the end with Nate hugging him and closing it out, but overall this promo at the very least has gotten me on Team Jackson. I agree with SS that while some of the other promos in the roulette came off very listy, this promo does a good job of avoiding that and focusing on the whole.

Katsu: I think a prison promo is a pretty solid choice given the setting of Katsu's match, and I think using setting to symbolize your match setting isn't something we see enough...I mean I guess we don't get the opportunity as writers enough, but I'm glad you saw it and took it. Not sure how far that goes grading-wise, but personally I think it'd play a little bit into it for me. As far as presentation goes I think overall as far as formatting goes everything looks solid with the graphics, font, and colors. The only thing I don't like is the left alignment, maybe it's personal preference but I'm also big on centered alignment for the most part. Maybe if we're doing a flashback or I want to differentiate between scenes somehow I'd switch back and forth, but overall making everything left aligned feels off to me. Not a huge deal though, but just something I'm pointing out. The "opening credits" part of the promo I thought was creative and had solid imagery because as you read it you can sort of see it all playing out, especially if you play the song. I think each section is done pretty well, but it's clear Alyster Black and Chris Peacock took a bigger focus. I agree with SS that it gets a bit listy at parts, but I don't think it's a list promo. I've seen worse, I think if you did each section with a different opponent and then didn't loop the others back in here and there it'd be more of a list promo, and I think some characters like Jackson Fenix and Death Walker do get that treatment, but Alyster and Peacock definitely seem to have some recurring parts. I mean even Cole and Jackson keep coming back around to. Overall I think you used all your opponents as characters, and keep all of those characters overall recurring throughout as they try to work through this conflict.

I also disagree with SS in the fact that it really matters whether or not you perfectly captured the way that Chris Peacock talks or whatever, as I think this is intended to be a parody. If you were writing Chris Peacock as Chris Peacock, I'd be more concerned that you're using Chris Peacock w/o permission. I think using other characters, especially by direct name, is risky enough as it is, so you tread a thin line when it comes to writing dialog for them. I think it's safer to make it more of a parody than to try and imitate their mannerisms from head to toe.

I think my only gripe story-wise is Katsu comes in and has some major main character energy, which is probably the point, but I do think in reality she's with some very strong personalities, and I don't know if they'd have even let her have her big monologue moment at the end. But in a way I think that's sort of the message, that Katsu does see herself as big as they are. Again I'd also echo what I said earlier in that I think Alyster and Peacock sort of overshadow Cole, Jackson, and Death Walker in this story. Which is fine, I think you identified them as the two biggest threats, but it's a gamble if one of those three end up coming guns ablazing.

Overall I think this was a world title caliber promo, and did send the message that Katsu/you were trying to send which was that you're on that level.

Trixie Bordeaux: First of all from a presentation standpoint I like the way you portrayed this black and white setting. You'd think you could just do a white background black font style, but that wouldn't give me that vibe. The backgrounds, fonts, and blends you use really give off right away that this is an old timey black and white sort of deal. Your world-building of Fantasyland is really well done and I enjoy the throwback to Matty Robinson that I feel like most newbies wouldn't know, so it's clear you paid attention in FWA history class. I enjoyed the reportrayal of Blair and Celestia's loss to DSI, and Trixie's point of view. I think it does a good job of showcasing Trixie's care for her friends, and building off a stable loss that I personally was probably just going to move on from instead of using it in a productive way like this. The final chapter I think is what brings it all together with the carnival. I think the portrayal of Chris Crowe again goes back to what I said in the Katsu review, in that you don't have to portray the character you're parodying accurately, because obviously it's an exaggerated parody. Although I think the parody is more clear here, so there's less confusion. Crowe comes off as Disney villain here, and I think from Trixie's POV that absolutely makes sense. Overall I think this does a good job of showcasing Trixie as being this person, while naive and silly...is someone who is brave and willing to stand up for her friends, and that's something that's sort of been slowly developing since Trixie met The Coven girls.

Blake Taylor: I think overall this is a better promo than most dudes come in and write as their first promo in the FWA. It can take a while to adjust. I'm also surprised that you were able to utilize some FWA reporter personalities. Shake Meltzer not as much because he's pretty well known, but I don't even remember where I had posts from Ty Johnson and Nuances of Wrestling on this site, so I sort of popped when you had him show up. I think a first promo, especially on a big show, is hard but overall you did a solid introduction to the character while also referencing your opponents and the match and I think that's about as much as I would ask for from a first-time promo. Eventually, though you're going to need to evolve your story, settings, and visuals in new ways. I suggest taking a gander through and reading some other promos this show to get a solid idea on what kind of heat your opponents are going to be throwing.
Thanks so much for the feedback it was my first promo in nearly 10 years and I put alot into it, so thanks for the compliments
 

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Thanks for the feedback SS, Sully, and anyone else that has sent me their thoughts on this promo and current arc of the Fenix character.

It was around 6-7 years ago when I made this character as nothing more than a tag team partner/sidekick to Nate Savage, and here he is now as seemingly the breakout star of the team. I never intended for it to be that way but I’m happy it happened. I’ve enjoyed writing this new Jackson Fenix and being able to flesh it out more with these promos has been a joy. He was meant to be nothing more than a himbo. A good looking, dumb, cocky, obnoxious guy was what I had in mind initially for him but being able to move on from that and discover this different side of him is something that I didn’t expect to happen. He’s still the same goober but a well meaning one with a past that haunts him.

Again, I’m glad everyone else has liked what I’ve been doing with him. Thanks again for all of the kind words and let’s keep this thing going.
 

Rosie

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Thanks for the feedback SS, Sully, and anyone else that has sent me their thoughts on this promo and current arc of the Fenix character.

It was around 6-7 years ago when I made this character as nothing more than a tag team partner/sidekick to Nate Savage, and here he is now as seemingly the breakout star of the team. I never intended for it to be that way but I’m happy it happened. I’ve enjoyed writing this new Jackson Fenix and being able to flesh it out more with these promos has been a joy. He was meant to be nothing more than a himbo. A good looking, dumb, cocky, obnoxious guy was what I had in mind initially for him but being able to move on from that and discover this different side of him is something that I didn’t expect to happen. He’s still the same goober but a well meaning one with a past that haunts him.

Again, I’m glad everyone else has liked what I’ve been doing with him. Thanks again for all of the kind words and let’s keep this thing going.

He's the inspiration for Ken.
 

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@Sully /Kleio De Santos

I absolutely loved this promo, lol. The channel surfing idea is unique as fuck, and was executed extremely well, and Kleio’s arc in this promo was so well done. The fact that her jealousy drove her to wanting her underlings in The Coven to lose at BiB, due to her own insecurities of feeling as though their success somehow makes her appear weak…fucking beautiful stuff. The “shows” themselves were also very well executed. You did a fantastic job of telling Kleio’s story, and displaying her mindset, motivations and emotions heading into this match, while also still offering some focus on her opponents during the Law and Order show in particular, and I really enjoyed Kleio’s verbal rundown of them during the prosecution. So…creativity (check), QOC (check), the presentation was great, with the gif of Kleio and the TVs at the start, and the show graphics and static etc, all really added to the visual presentation of the promo, though there were a couple spelling/grammar mistakes that I noticed. Not many, though. So Presentation (check). Character Portrayal is a pretty obvious (check), along with character development (check).

I’m not a judge, and I’ve never graded a promo, but in my head, you’ve ticked all the boxes for a 32+. It was wildly entertaining, creative, emotional, and most importantly…it had Trixie AND Ethel. Any promo that has those two in it should auto-win any match EVER!;):lmao Fucking awesome stuff, dude.
 
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weaselperson

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Thank you very much for the feed back Sully. I always like hearing those comments and it's nice to hear people enjoy what I write.



Hard disagree.

I've always had this opinion and I've always railed against the idea that a monologue promo is boring. Yeah, if you want me to shoot on this-Monologues and Dio has always been my bread and butter. It's what I'm best at, but now it feels like every promo needs to have like...a big fancy set up to be considered creative and get easy creativity points in the grading. And that's fine. I have nothing against that, but I truly believe that sometimes a wrestling promo can just be a wrestling promo. And you don't need a big MVH set up to be considered creative. Creativity is in words, and how you use them to paint a picture. Nothing more, nothing less, and I fully believe, a guy talking to the camera, can be considered just as creative as a big space battle, it's all in the content.
AON not refer to SS/MvH in a negative way after apologizing & saying hed stop challenge: IMPOSSIBLE

could name any # of people in the fed who have elaborate setups but gotta go after your favorite target practice
 

AON

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AON not refer to SS/MvH in a negative way after apologizing & saying hed stop challenge: IMPOSSIBLE

could name any # of people in the fed who have elaborate setups but gotta go after your favorite target practice
Hey, I'm nothing if not consistent.

I'm building heat for your feud.
 

SupineSnake

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once more, i challenge you to find a monologue promo that clearly should've won and didn't. this discussion happens every once in a while and usually the proponents of this argument are those that don't frequently see what the grades actually are, and i've yet to see a widely accepted answer to this challenge.

biggest examples of monologue promo i can remember from recent weeks/months are cyrus cc and cyrus bib. you could argue cyrus cc isn't a full on monologue but it definitely has a sizeable element of it. cyrus cc promo beat two closest rivals - weaselperson and aly black - who had zero monologue element. even looking at just creativity, truth averaged 8.20 and black 7.94, remembering that truth wrote a promo with a sizeable monologue section and black had none. cyrus still edged black for creativity.

aon is correct that creativity is much more than a set-up or a context. it often appears in the writing itself, the flair the promoer uses, how things link together and, yes, how you relate it to wrestling and on-air storylines. he is incorrect in his implication that this is overlooked by the graders and that we exclusively favour space operas over monologues.

an abstract and elaborate set up for no reason, that doesn't further your character's story (on or off screen), isn't going to score well creatively. i sometimes think people think we dish out 8.5s for something that is set in space as a rule, which is just not true. for the record, all of my highest creativity promos have been set on earth.

just for context, average creativity score for all people in the CC was just under around 7.

wp outscored cyrus at cc (in the creativity section) with what is widely considered one of the most creative promos we've seen. he scored over 9 for that category which hasn't been done ever (consistently) since the new grading system came in. to be exact, he averaged 9.35 for creativity, which is astronomical. but remember that wp lost that match. that's because cyrus swept across the other categories against weaselperson. this almost always happens with the big 'set-up' promos (or 'space operas', as aon lovingly called them). it is much harder to hit important match focus and character points when your context is very abstract and your overall score almost always suffers, even if you get a bump in the creativity category. cyrus 13.05 vs. weaselperson 12.80 in qoc. cyrus 4.65 vs. weasel 4.20 in character portrayal. cyrus 4.50 vs. weasel 4.10 in character development. cyrus also won on presentation in that match but that's sort of irrelevant. these scores are, in my opinion from looking at grades over a long time, the normal when considering a promo that is direct (but well written and creative in its own way) vs. one that is super abstract.

cyrus back in business is the only recent big monologue promo that i think you can make a cogent argument for being 'the winner' and losing. hell, i had cyrus in that match myself in my grades. but being able to make an argument for preferring cyrus is not the same as being able to say that cyrus was the obvious and clear winner and has been done because of this creativity misconception. this was quite obviously a very close match. it was 3-2 on the graders - we had to get two members to grade the match as all mods already had with no clear conclusion other than the one in the match. the last grader actually thought they had it tied and it was still 2-2 but they had added up wrong. the scores in just creativity for that match is 7.60 for peacock vs. 7.45 for truth. remember that truth's promo in this match is, pretty much, 100% monologue. that is the point of the promo. man's set up was much more wild and abstract and he only outscored truth by a measly 0.15, averaged across five graders. the biggest difference in the grades for that match, looking at the scores now, come in the character development category. everything else has a negligible difference between truth and peacock. 'creativity' didn't decide that much.

the match itself between clipper, blake, and madison featured three monologue promos. not sure why this match specifically has caused this to come up lol.

i don't think anyone has ever said monologue promos are boring. they certainly can be. so can stuff with expansive setups. i think you dislike the grading system but it comes from a frequently expressed bugbear as opposed to how the grades actually work and how results have actually come about. at it's core i think this really has nothing to do with mvh/space operas so it's definitely weird that you would bring it up. i encourage everyone to write the stuff they enjoy writing, regardless of whether that's set in a wrestling ring or on Uranus (urs specifically, aon).
 
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The Gipper

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can I get the shortened down version? Thank you.
 

AON

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God I hate that I started this.

Yeah no bad take on my part.

SS you good.

Sorry everyone, I was out of my head on sat.
 

Tommy Bedlam

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Some random feedback just off the top of my head. Yes, I'm late. Yes, this is normal. So, if anyone's still interested, here we go.

Let me preface this by saying that once again, this show served as a reminder of just how good the writing here is. People consistently pumping out promos at this level is absolutely awesome to see.

Sawyer Xavier
Blaine, first, let me say it's good to see you getting back into this. Your first promo back was one of my favorites from that cycle, and it felt like you did a really good job building on the foundation that you laid in this one. Feels like the Sawyer Xavier character is in a unique spot in the current landscape. He's been here longer than several people, not as long as some others, but this feels like a "clean slate" for him with your heightened level of involvement. In two promos, you've shown me exactly why I should care about the character, and that's the name of the game for me. Good work, bud, and I'm looking forward to seeing where you go with Sawyer next. You mentioned in the Discord that you were cutting this one close on time, but also knew that it didn't technically matter since you were likely facing a no-show. Was this as good as your recent return promo? Not in my opinion, but it was still good work, and did exactly what you needed it to do.

Kleio De Santos
Sully pulling off a really clever idea really shouldn't come as much of a surprise. Loved everything about this promo, but the presentation really set this one apart for me. The TV title setting with the different TV shows is one of those things that seems super obvious, but it's really not. This was creative from start to finish. I found it especially impressive how you still kept Kleio's portrayal intact while doing something so original. This was one of my favorite promos from the Anniversary Show. My only knock on this is that I wanted more of it, and that's no kind of a knock at all.

YDS
Beavie dropping a Pokemon promo is as "right" as anything can be. Beavie dropping a Pokemon promo is as right to me as a cup of hot coffee in the morning. Doing it in a trios match is just a clever play. As I mentioned in Sully's feedback, sometimes you trade in some CP/CD points to pursue a certain type of promo or a certain type of creativity. I didn't leave this promo feeling like I knew anything about YDS that I didn't know before, and that's fine. I didn't need to know anything new about them. I did learn at least one new Pokemon name (or maybe I was reminded of an old one). This was fun, and I enjoyed it.

Trixie
Welshy, I've told you privately how much I've enjoyed your progression, but it should be said publicly. You're not the writer you were when you made this sign-up, and it's been fun to watch. The story about the "big mean carnival men" beating up Trixie's friends was a clever way to reference the tag match from the week before involving DS/The Coven, and gave us a reason that Trixie cared about a seemingly random match with Crowe. The presentation was VERY nice and fed into the mood of the promo. My only knock on this promo is that it felt like you kinda chopped the end off a bit early. It was super smart to throw it into an "advertisement" for the Anniversary Show, but as a reader, I would've liked to have seen more "meat" (insert AEW crowd chant joke here) around the end of it.

Chris Crowe
This motherfucker legit gets on the Discord and says, "Yea, I'm gonna start on this thing after midnight" the night before the deadline and writes THAT?!?! Thanks, BT. Thanks for reminding me that when we team up, I'm Marty to your Shawn. I'm Typhoon to your Earthquake. I'm IRS to your Million Dollar Man. For real, I loved how you continued to lay the groundwork for "where has Chris Crowe been" while still answering "Where is Chris Crowe going" in this promo. A Chris Crowe shroom trip was not what I was expecting, and it was a joy to read.

Blake Taylor
When you bring a new character into a fed, especially one like this, it's easy to get overwhelmed and kinda "shrink." You didn't do that. The Blake Taylor promo did an excellent job of telling me who this guy is and why people in the FWA should care that he's here. As far as debut promos, that's really the most important part. Overall, this promo could have probably been helped by some more content, but striking the balance between "enough" and "too much" is hard, and ultimately, it only comes from learning what works and what doesn't. I'm excited to see where this character goes next, as a guy who is leaving a successful MMA career coming into a new realm should have a learning curve. I like what you're doing with Blake. Don't be afraid to mess with some presentation stuff.

Madison Gray
I don't think any of us really knew what to expect with this promo, and that's a good thing. While Madison had been booked on cards before, this was the first time we really got to dive into her character in my opinion. I know you had done the "Dear Diary" thing in the past, but this promo definitely thrived by adding in someone for Madison to play off of. I think this is in the same vein as Blake's promo in that there could have been "more" to it, but what you did obviously worked. I'm looking forward to seeing where the character goes, as I am with this wave of new/returning characters FWA has right now.

Chris Peacock
This was a massive undertaking, and you nailed it, as evidenced in the win. Doing callbacks to past promos, especially at this level was ballsy to say the least, Mando. I don't really have a "wish you had done this" thing with this promo, as there's not much of anything to change.

Katsu
One of my favorite things about reading these promos was how everyone chose to portray the fact that there were so many opponents. The prison-concept was a smart one, but I expected nothing less. You've shown plenty of creativity, and the whole "being locked in" in the context of the steel roulette was definitely a clever play. As far as "constructive feedback," I did feel like there were a couple moments where you may have focused a bit too heavily on your other characters, which I'm sure is easy to do when you're writing for 3 active characters. It just felt like there were a couple moments where Ririko and Cali (more Ririko for me) took the spotlight away from Katsu.

Reagan Cole
Was this as good as "Fuck Reagan Cole?" Of course, not. But that promo has been GOATed and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise. Nah, for real though, knowing that you're looking to take a break (OOC) actually made this promo hit a little different for me while reading it. Cole viewing this match as a last-ditch sort of scenario was actually a good idea. I loved the ending of Cole thinking "maybe I grab the opportunity this time instead of letting someone else do it." I also enjoyed Cole kinda encouraging himself by thinking back to the people he's beaten. Would have liked to have seen a bit more specific match focus for this particular promo, but I still love how you portrayed Cole in this one. Also, I've reviewed your request for time off, and it's been denied. Sorry, chief.

Death Walker
A couple shows ago, I mentioned that I felt like a promo you had posted lacked focus on the match. That was definitely not the case with this one. For me as a reader, this was probably my favorite promo that you've shared with us so far. Felt like you struck a solid balance between building on this other-worldly, demonic character and the match that you were staring down. Nice job on this promo.