For the people against the "part time" wrestlers

[Darth Shizzel]

For all those complaining about Rock being champ check the raw ratings best they have been in a long time these part timers draw more then the full timers because only about 8 of the full timers are worth watching the rest are all the same.

 

[Tapout]

For all those complaining about Rock being champ check the raw ratings best they have been in a long time these part timers draw more then the full timers because only about 8 of the full timers are worth watching the rest are all the same.

If he can KEEP those ratings, that's when I'll accept it. Right now this is just the Rumble fall out, and people are tuning in to see Rock with the belt. They did that. Now next week will be different story. Lesnar may help ratings as well.

 

[Darth Shizzel]

Yeah but even before that ratings have been rising because the Rock was there now Lesnar being there it looks like we have a faction of Paul Heyman Guys meaning maybe HHH gets his rematch with Lesnar at Elimination Chamber leaving the match with Undertaker open.

 

[Defiant]

I'm starting to wonder if John Cena would ever have gotten anywhere near as over today if he had stuck with the tights. If WWE hadn't tried something drastic and weird with his gimmick and committed to him over a few years and gave him hot fueds with Eddie, Taker, Angle and Lesnar? Because that's how you create a star and its not that complicated.

Trying new things. Sometimes it works, ladies and gentlemen!

But when Ryback doesn't carry the ratings in his first PPV headline, its justified to dismiss whatever potential he may have as a draw, drop the whole thing and revert back to status quo because he's worthless to us?

 

[Defiant]

False, Lashley was made feeder for Cena after his push didn't pan out and they saw he wasn't going to be a huge star.

It just reinforces what I've been saying all along. If WWE could get Bobby freakin' Lashley to the level that they did, I'm convinced they can make a star out of damn near anybody when they set their minds to it. Putting in a half arsed effort to put mid-carders over while Cena continues to hog all the segments and fueds with actual depth... Of course your ratings aren't going to budge unless The Rock shows up or something.

 

[PHX]

Exactly people have to remember Rock didn't become a star overnight. He was some generic clean face guy who debuted. Took time and effort to make him into the guy he became. Just because a guy doesn't seem like a star now doesn't mean he can't become one.

 

[We Are Legion]

WWE Championship: John Cena v. Samuel L. Jackson
WHC: Sheamus v. Ziggler v. Ryback v. George St Pierre (Hell in a Cell)
Rob Van Dam v. Jean Claude Van Damme
CM Punk v. The Crypt Keeper
Randy Orton v. Justin Beiber (Beiber must tie one hand behind his back)
Kaitlyn v. Katie Couric
Kane v. Bane
Eli Manning v. Peyton Manning (in the spirit of Bret v. Owen and Jeff v. Matt)


There you go. A Wrestlemania booked exactly how WWE wants to do things. Lots of big time draws in there, I'm sure the buyrates would be through the roof. Of course, none of these familiar Hollywood faces would actually stick around the next day, all serious storylines absolutely must come to a halt to accommodate their presence, and their participation really has no bearing on anything that happens before or after the actual Wrestlemania event... but these are celebrities people will pay $70 to see.

Sound ridiculous? So does Rock and Brock Lesnar doing the same thing.

 

[Chris]

Kane v. Bane

Would mark like crazy.

 

[We Are Legion]

Exactly people have to remember Rock didn't become a star overnight. He was some generic clean face guy who debuted. Took time and effort to make him into the guy he became. Just because a guy doesn't seem like a star now doesn't mean he can't become one.

It really wasn't a whole lot of time tbf.

Less than a year.

 

[Chris]

It really wasn't a whole lot of time tbf.

Less than a year.

Eh, not really. He was the stupid, generic face for a year and then he turned heel and joined the Nation. Still wasn't really a huge star though until Survivor Series '98 when he won the belt, he was over as fuck a couple months before that, but not in the caliber he would be from SS98 and afterwards. Took him two years.

 

[PHX]

Yeah and also by time I also meant they never stopped pushing him. Never pulled the rug from under him and let him develop in front of us. There are better cases that took more time and effort like Edge just used Rock.

 

[We Are Legion]

Eh, not really. He was the stupid, generic face for a year and then he turned heel and joined the Nation. Still wasn't really a huge star though until Survivor Series '98 when he won the belt, he was over as fuck a couple months before that, but not in the caliber he would be from SS98 and afterwards. Took him two years.

Dude Rock was over as fuck the second he turned heel in mid 97. Remember like it was yesterday because Shawn Michaels was the only guy I hated more than him. He hadn't perfected his character yet, but you could tell with utter certainty it was only a matter of time. Austin chucking his IC belt off the bridge into the river was priceless. And when he turned on Farooq in early 98, that was it, he was gone. My point is, compared to the guys today, Rock was someone you foresaw as a champion extremely early. The Rocky Miavia shit didn't work, but he didn't stick to that long enough for it to typecast him. Thank God.

 

[The Cork]

Exactly people have to remember Rock didn't become a star overnight. He was some generic clean face guy who debuted. Took time and effort to make him into the guy he became. Just because a guy doesn't seem like a star now doesn't mean he can't become one.

Wheres the "overnight" thing come from?

The Rock was in the WWE full time for 6 years, Lesnar just 2........CM Punk is in his 7th year, Ziggler too.

Not WWE's fault Punk after 4 years as a main eventer still can't carry a show without the ratings tanking and Raw getting beat by a dog show, and Ziggler is still a midcarder. They've had more than enough TV time and chances to seize their spot and haven't done shit.

It just reinforces what I've been saying all along. If WWE could get Bobby freakin' Lashley to the level that they did, I'm convinced they can make a star out of damn near anybody when they set their minds to it. Putting in a half arsed effort to put mid-carders over while Cena continues to hog all the segments and fueds with actual depth... Of course your ratings aren't going to budge unless The Rock shows up or something.

Lashley was never, ever a star though.

I hate Punk but can admit he has his fan base and was hot during 2011, at no point was Lashley ever well recieved and he basically got placed at the top of the card for what I can only assume WWE being so thirsty for a black headliner they pretended he already was one.

WWE Championship: John Cena v. Samuel L. Jackson
WHC: Sheamus v. Ziggler v. Ryback v. George St Pierre (Hell in a Cell)
Rob Van Dam v. Jean Claude Van Damme
CM Punk v. The Crypt Keeper
Randy Orton v. Justin Beiber (Beiber must tie one hand behind his back)
Kaitlyn v. Katie Couric
Kane v. Bane
Eli Manning v. Peyton Manning (in the spirit of Bret v. Owen and Jeff v. Matt)


There you go. A Wrestlemania booked exactly how WWE wants to do things. Lots of big time draws in there, I'm sure the buyrates would be through the roof. Of course, none of these familiar Hollywood faces would actually stick around the next day, all serious storylines absolutely must come to a halt to accommodate their presence, and their participation really has no bearing on anything that happens before or after the actual Wrestlemania event... but these are celebrities people will pay $70 to see.

Sound ridiculous? So does Rock and Brock Lesnar doing the same thing.

I have no idea what your point is here, and I've got a feeling you don't know either.

 

[Defiant]

I probably shouldn't have used Lashley in the same sentence as "star" because I never considered him one either, and the IWC certainly resisted him. But I do remember him being over. Every vague wrestling fan (I'm not above calling them casuals) that I personally know really ate him up. I agree he had probably hit his ceiling by the time he was finished and wasn't particularly main event material. My point remains that WWE can theoretically pick almost anyone up and place them around the card if they were so bold. I think Lashley can be used as evidence for this, though he is more an infamous example of an extremely hasty push.

Adding on here, I could argue the reason guys like Dolph, Punk and Kofi who have around for so long aren't huge draws by now like Cena has much to do with the way they have been used. Dolph and Kofi are two of the most talented in-ring people WWE have imo but they have no defining career moments, they have always been booked like they were mid-card title contenders. You could only conceivably break the audience's cemented perceptions of them by now is to devote a lot of thought and time, months or years, to turn them into someone that the audience cares about. And that's the point I'm trying to make.

CM Punk has a damn cult, but the amount of time he spent as champion just doesn't feel weighty and again I believe it has to do with the way he was being booked in 2012. The fact that John Cena headlined half the PPV's during Punk's reign, particularly while Punk was a babyface, truly reveals to the audience WWE's lack of willingness to elevate Punk as high as they could, or pretty much anyone else. Cena is a safe bet, but you can't bank on that forever.

 

[PHX]

Wheres the "overnight" thing come from?

The Rock was in the WWE full time for 6 years, Lesnar just 2........CM Punk is in his 7th year, Ziggler too.

Not WWE's fault Punk after 4 years as a main eventer still can't carry a show without the ratings tanking and Raw getting beat by a dog show, and Ziggler is still a midcarder. They've had more than enough TV time and chances to seize their spot and haven't done shit.






Lashley was never, ever a star though.

I hate Punk but can admit he has his fan base and was hot during 2011, at no point was Lashley ever well recieved and he basically got placed at the top of the card for what I can only assume WWE being so thirsty for a black headliner they pretended he already was one.







I have no idea what your point is here, and I've got a feeling you don't know either.

It came from me trying to make a point that he and other stars for the most part weren't stars in such a short time but took consistent effort over periods of times to become a star. Wasn't talking about Punk at all so don't know why you brought him into it. Not even gonna get into the ratings BS esp when Cena is the biggest star in wrestling that wrestles full time and often the focus of the show and isn't some big time rating draw.

But anyways for some guys it has taken longer to become a main eventer and Dolph is in that slow push boat as he should become one this year if they stick with it which has been WWE's problem not sticking with pushes. You're only going to be able to turn to these part timers for so long so it's important to do the best with what you have. You won't know what you have if all you're gonna do is half ass push guys until you can bring back a short term fix.