Cops: Man dies after punch from Burger King worker
- Thread starter Kairi
- Start date
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Well we have courts and judges set up for this very reason, to debate such issues. Two judges will argue different perspectives with the same degree, I'm not going to begin to pretend I know much about the law, especially in America.
But back on topic, is this murder? Well I think it is even if the intent wasn't necessarily there, the over exaggeration aggression was enough. Put it this way, I work part time at a McDonalds, and I've had every customer but an angry, punching 67 year old man. Now I'm 17 and I'm in pretty good shape and if one was to take a swing at me, I would know that he's probably in some shape or form altered. I'd also be aware that I can more than take this guy so I'm looking to restrain him not punch him in the head. Look, if I punch a guy in his nose, it'll break. I punch him in his eye, it could have at best, a big black eye. I punch him in the crown area, he is going to hurt, especially an older gentleman with which he could have been restrained. In fact to do such damage, I'd have to think the following.
1) The man is fragile
2) The 20 year old guy is in good shape.
Punching the man was an aggressive and needless act, fulfilling his macho needs has resulted in death and there was a strong intent to hurt the man. Manslaughter I do lean towards, but I wouldn't be all bothered if this guy got murder charges.
By the way, I'd never discourage someone from arguing with me. I'm so embroiled in the system that I need people with independent opinions to straighten me out from time to time.
You're right to think about it in terms of the victim, a presumably frail old man. It is the kind of thing that will come into play when a jury decides whether it was reasonable to punch back, or whether the kid could/should have foreseen that the punch would kill the guy or cause him serious bodily injury. But generally speaking, in a situation where one person punches first and the killer responds by punching back? No jury would convict for murder. I think even manslaughter is in doubt.
You're right to think about it in terms of the victim, a presumably frail old man. It is the kind of thing that will come into play when a jury decides whether it was reasonable to punch back, or whether the kid could/should have foreseen that the punch would kill the guy or cause him serious bodily injury. But generally speaking, in a situation where one person punches first and the killer responds by punching back? No jury would convict for murder. I think even manslaughter is in doubt.
Yes generally, but now we have to take the situation into serious specifics. It isn't one man pulling a knife on another, it's not one man attacking another. It's a frail (I'd imagine), and hell I'd assume altered also against a young man in his peak. Should have known better really, what would you have done?
I'm assuming the old man was physically weak too, but for all we know we're wrong. Maybe he wasn't frail. Maybe the kid didn't get a chance to see that he was frail. Self-defense is about acting reasonably from your subjective point of view. I looked around for more information on the case, but I don't see anything new, other than that a witness said the old man caused a disturbance, yelled at the kid, and took a swing.
I don't like the "what would you have done?" question, because it's not about meeting a high standard of behavior. You can do something that is wrong but not necessarily illegal. And I can tell you what I'd do, but I wouldn't really know until I was in the kid's position.
I don't like the "what would you have done?" question, because it's not about meeting a high standard of behavior. You can do something that is wrong but not necessarily illegal. And I can tell you what I'd do, but I wouldn't really know until I was in the kid's position.
Well the causing disturbance gives me the impression something was that matter, possibly altered behaviour. Yelling at the kid tells me the kids has spoken to him and that he's had a good chance to understand what's going on. That's all I can say on that.
Damn shame that it came to a person's death, but we don't know the circumstances. Irrespective of the victims age and physical capacity, it's the facts of the matter that will determine what action will be taken. For all we know, the 67 year old man knew how to handle himself.
We can all sit here and say what the young kid should have done, but at the end of the day, until we're put into that position, we don't have a clue. Yeah in hindsight, the logical thing to do is to subdue the man until police arrive, but put yourself in this guys shoes. If you were faced with an angry person (forget the age for a minute), who was causing a disturbance and then took a swing at you, how do you know that your first instinct won't be to take a shot back?
We can all sit here and say what the young kid should have done, but at the end of the day, until we're put into that position, we don't have a clue. Yeah in hindsight, the logical thing to do is to subdue the man until police arrive, but put yourself in this guys shoes. If you were faced with an angry person (forget the age for a minute), who was causing a disturbance and then took a swing at you, how do you know that your first instinct won't be to take a shot back?