Cena's Return?

[PHX]

First time you've mentioned the future. No one is even arguing about Punk/Bryan/ADR, they're just saying that giving Cena all the pushes won't fix anything. Stop bringing up other people when this is about Cena, yes he's a bigger draw, no one's debating that. PHX hasn't even mentioned Punk in this thread () so why the fuck do you keep bringing him up?

Read this many times please PSYCH as this is the short version of what I've been saying and save yourself pointless paragraphs so we can stay on the real topic of this thread.

[MENTION=2430]ThatGuyFromNukemHigh[/MENTION]
Never really thought about that swerve they could do. Would be pretty huge for Del Rio and make sense before Cena ultimately takes the title off of him. Wouldn't mind it going down like that at all rather than Cena just simply beating him and then beating him in multiple rematches after.

 

[SAIYANS]

First time you've mentioned the future. No one is even arguing about Punk/Bryan/ADR, they're just saying that giving Cena all the pushes won't fix anything. Stop bringing up other people when this is about Cena, yes he's a bigger draw, no one's debating that. PHX hasn't even mentioned Punk in this thread () so why the fuck do you keep bringing him up?

Reigns, Wyatt, Cody, and Big E wee in every damn post. Every post. Every post I said let Cena have the year or two and let them build steam away, those 4 and then beat him so that their first world title is all they need.

I ranted, sure, but to simplify its just ludacris to me that Punk, Randy, ADR, Dlph, and Bryan are all looking at becoming three time world champs at minimum right now and can't keep the audience or draw. Is something bad about the formula of stacking resumes. Their first world title or wwe title win should have made them like Dave and Cena as their resumes are better and they've gotten the push, so that there is never a need for part timers like Jericho, RVD, and Goldust to return to big money feuds to get people's attention when they were just midcard acts in their heyday, you always book a rock and Brock, but something is broken when guys like Jericho and RVD know they can dictate terms and are used to draw.


i keep bringing Punk, Orton, and ADR up because they are supposed to be his 2-6 along with Bryan and Dolph, yet none of them are taken serious enough to carry the ship. To me that's an indictment on them all because in past eras, the next 5 guys were Trips, Taker, Rock, Kane, and Angle or Dave, Edge, HBK, Rey, and Jeff who all were ready and able to be taken serious without half the resume stacking. To me Orton and Punk belong in the same limping because they've failed to and the formula needs to be redone. If those guys are strong and viable, Cena can sit his ass down and take a vacation from time to time but its not an actual option because they are weak, so yes they hurt Cena as much as they do the company imo

 

[Deezy]

Let's simplify this...Cena coming back....Good for business.

Why? Because everyone he tried to pass the torch to, are like that Russian guy who let the Olympic flame out. And there isn't anybody under those fumbelinas who can carry the ball either.

I'm sure glad WWE isn't run by smarks, would be like Jack Black in High Fidelity running Interscope, just run the business into the ground, signing and pushing people who a mass audience wouldn't give a fuck about.

It's like people think WWE should run and book their company like ROH.....And make NO MONEY as opposed to what they do and actually MAKE MONEY.

 

[Keith]

Let's simplify this...Cena coming back....Good for business.

Why? Because everyone he tried to pass the torch to, are like that Russian guy who let the Olympic flame out. And there isn't anybody under those fumbelinas who can carry the ball either.

I'm sure glad WWE isn't run by smarks, would be like Jack Black in High Fidelity running Interscope, just run the business into the ground, signing and pushing people who a mass audience wouldn't give a fuck about.

It's like people think WWE should run and book their company like ROH.....And make NO MONEY as opposed to what they do and actually MAKE MONEY.

Thats a funny post for two reasons, one because of the Jack Black gag.

Two because how you basically paid no attention to the the reasoned arguments which we all made. Still just carry on pretending that we said things we didn't and that the only answer to everything in wrestling for the rest of time is push Cena, push Cena, and then push him some more.

 

[SAIYANS]

[MENTION=39]Keith[/MENTION], [MENTION=483]PHX[/MENTION], [MENTION=1891]Chris[/MENTION], whoever ...

dont you think it's something wrong with 2-7, let's add sheamus too when they are still trying to be made and can't draw off their current resumes when past generations didn't have that padding?

im saying push Cena and build a new 2-7, cut bait and don't give Any of the current 2-7 the belt again to pad their bloated counts. IMO Wyatt, Reigns, Langston, and Rhodes a year or 2 from now beating Cena who has beat every challenger while defending the title and his throne, makes them in 1 world/wwe title reign. I really hope sandow loses his cash in for the simple fact he won't be part of the bs let me give you 2-10 world titles, mid card titles, and other accomplishments only to not be taken serious because he isn't believable like Randy, Punk, ADR, Sheamus, Dolph, and Bryan aren't.

You all are bypassing the fact that these guys who are Cenas next 5-6 support guys unlike his past 5-6 support guys years ago and Austin's 5-6 support guys can't draw and it's not because they lack accomplishments, pushes, or times ... They lack casual acceptance and that hurts Cena long run as well as the company because he can't afford to give them the keys when they all aren't man enough to drive a stick.

Let's be real here Jericho and RVD couldn't dictate shit in 08 as they would be laughed at, but now they can because they are more believable and more of a draw than the non Cena full timers ... That's a problem, you keep saying we are loving in the past, but they reach back to it because the current present can't be more viable and believable than old mod card acts, the formula and guys behind CEna need to change on that totem

 

[PHX]

Oh my fucking god let it go I don't give a shit to discuss your infatuation with 5 years ago, your dislike for the current crop of guys and talking about wrestlers "bloated resumes" If someone else wants to keep this up with you they can go ahead but I'm done with it and only talking about Cena here. I'll go back and fourth with you all day about Cena and his being put in the WHC picture can keep my name out of the other nonsense that I've made clear I don't care about.

 

[Defiant]

I wanted to jump in because there's a 4 page discussion going on about this... But I don't even know what we're arguing about and I skimmed every post. Whether John Cena can draw? Everyone agrees on that.

Cena is firmly the face of the company and honestly NEEDS to be the one holding the banner every now and then. However...

The problem I personally have with Cena is that he represents the status quo. Whenever Cena has the belt WWE goes into "Now we can relax, everything is fine" mode, the writers don't need to bother giving a reason to care because, the way they see it, it's John Cena so fans will tune in anyway. Then when he has to recharge WWE looks at what babyface fans are reacting to and gives him a storyline to get us invested. This is when we get fresh matches, feuds and scenarios, a glimpse into the future in a way.

The result of this pattern is that when Cena has a high profile feud WWE wants as many eyes on as possible, like vs The Rock, it's usually very "safe" and boring. Then all the risky, experimental angles and untapped talent emerge when no one's watching.

EDIT - Even if you think, hell even if you can prove, that Punk, Bryan, Sheamus, Orton and Ryback must be hacks who can never be on Cena's level, you can think that. But realize that WWE taking chances on these guys, especially given how long Cena's been around, is not just necessary but essential. Because one day WWE must find it's new John Cena.

 

[SAIYANS]

Cena returning to beat ADR and then some likely bs of ADR losing the rematch the next ppv, attacking him post match, and sandow cashing in is what we all know will unfold. Problem is that ain't helping no one. It will hurt sandow too because he becomes no different than the others. It's hamster and wheel which a talent like Sandow who shows such potential and versatility, the title, and Cena don't deserve to be wasted on. Sandow won't be made and will need another 2-4 reign to be established, the title will be devalued once again, and Cena returning early will mean fuck all. They need to do something different with the formula. Cena winning, holding it, and then meeting Sandow who loses his cash in and has to find himself a new level of physicality to avenge said loss ,makes for a better payoff IMO and gives a chance for a new star to be made so there's no need for pulling old mid card guys back for wm35

 

[PHX]

Because you lack a solution or argument, you say I'm infatuated with the past but ignore the whole point of cause and effect. The cause of part timers and Cena needing to rush back will be and always has been weak supporting stars and the same stick that hasn't made these guys but whatever ...


Cena returning to beat ADR and then some likely bs of ADR losing the rematch the next ppv, attacking him post match, and sandow cashing in is what we all know will unfold. Problem is that ain't helping no one. It will hurt sandow too because he becomes no different than the others. It's hamster and wheel which a talent like Sandow who shows such potential and versatility, the title, and Cena don't deserve to be wasted on. Sandow won't be made and will need another 2-4 reign to be established, the title will be devalued once again, and Cena returning early will mean fuck all. They need to do something different with the formula. Cena winning, holding it, and then meeting Sandow who loses his cash in and has to find himself a new level of physicality to avenge said loss ,makes for a better payoff IMO and gives a chance for a new star to be made so there's no need for pulling old mid card guys back for wm35

I don't lack anything and you know this because we've had these back n fourths for a long ass time. After having the same back n fourth we've had on this subject which by the way has little to do with the actual subject of this thread for years now since way back when SAL was a regular poster here it kind of gets to the point of annoying and useless to talk about when we've done this before already it is a broken fucking record.

Now as far as the 2nd part that is something I can agree with you on that Sandow cashing in like that wouldn't really help him. The route they seem to be going with him just is going to result in another Swagger type reign if even that. They need to go a different route with him on that esp if Cena is going to end up being champ. When it comes to the WHC I have no problem with him holding it for a while hence why earlier in the thread I said I want Cena to have a Triple H Smackdown 08 type of run. Same time don't think it would hurt if they did go the route of going the shocker route of having Del Rio beat a Cena who came back too early. Would make it far more interesting than Cena just flat out beating him and I'm not someone who is exactly a fan of Del Rio.

 

[SAIYANS]

@Defiant

My problem will always be guys like Bryan, Sheamus, Punk, Rio, Dolph, Orton, and Sheamus. Not that they lack talent, never once said it.

I said they lack believability and are failures now, all of them because they tried to make them simply by bloating resumes and achievements to make them the replacements of Edge, Dolph, Dave, Taker, Rey, hbk, and hhh as full timers. All them should have been built up and made when they won it the first time. Cena can't be blamed for that to me, he really can't because Cena didn't need his resume pumped like these guys, the managers, the stables, etc to become the man.

The formula for making him and the past guys is better. You can't make a guy a multiple time world champ and hope they are taken serious after, you have to build credibility then pad the resume, not the way things are now. It says something when more guys tune in to watch RVD, goldust, and Jericho than a bunch of multiple time world champs ... We are just talking about rock and Brock, but mid card or transition filler guys of the past being looked to to draw because they built Punk, Orton, Dolph, Sheamus, Rio, and Bryan wrong. And because they were built wrong, can't draw, can't keep viewers it stops Cena from being able to go away for a simple vacation or fade into a background fully.

so I'm saying fuck it use Cena to make the belt matter. Then away from Cena have 4-5 new guys without world titles on their resume put on 15-20 minute matches, promos, and grow as characters like the past did. My 5 will be sandow, E, Wyatt, Reigns, and Cody. I think those 5 all have different appeals to them. Let them make a name, get wins, clean wins over midcarders, part timers, Kane, and then in a year or 2 place them against Cena. Don't rush them or try to force a star out of a square. Let them gain momentum and then have Sandow win another MITB and cash in ala RVD. Let Wyatt build a cult and work his way to a SummerSlam environment. Let Cody win a rumble in 15 after months of winning. Let reigns spend a year or two in the shield as trips lackey to he gets fed up and drops their asses and then wins it later on. Let big E go in the chamber and 5 count bitches the next two years to he finally wins it and becomes number one contender. Don't give them titles in hopes the belt makes them like this generation, give them casual credibility then titles as stars

 

[SAIYANS]

Problem with ADR winning inside a hiac is his credibility though. He struggles vs mid carders, which shouldn't have happened. They painted themselves in that corner. Yeah he's champ but it is like Jericho, anyone can beat him clean. Short of them solely selling Cena still being hurt with him coming out in a sleeve it makes no sense sadly without something screwy with a new Vickie romance

 

[PHX]

Problem with ADR winning inside a hiac is his credibility though. He struggles vs mid carders, which shouldn't have happened. They painted themselves in that corner. Yeah he's champ but it is like Jericho, anyone can beat him clean. Short of them solely selling Cena still being hurt with him coming out in a sleeve it makes no sense sadly without something screwy with a new Vickie romance

Why you think i mentioned the him losing cause he came back too early thing that nuke brought up? Would make too much sense him coming back from a arm injury too early against a guy who arm submission finisher. It books itself too easy as heel 101 shit and turns into a feud. You don't need to protect Cena but it does protect Cena and make Del Rio look good in the process.

 

[SAIYANS]

Thing is I think him losing goes better over in a regular match, it fits del rios MO and gives him outs with count outs and disqualifications. Cena losing inside HIAC to a guy who hasn't been in there and isn't known for beating guys is meh. Del Rio in a normal environment can do slight things that gives him an edge as a heel with a champions advantage, in the war zone of hiac it's hard to sell del rio beating even 80% Cena. It shouldn't be a gimmick match IMO for their first encounter as ADR isn't hardcore

 

[PHX]

It's really not hard to sell at all it's already set up to be sold. They have the perfect built up excuse against the perfect opponent to exploit it doesn't get any easier than that. He doesn't need a gimmick to exploit it. Gives Del Rio tons of confidence and put doubt in Cena's head that he came back too soon.

 

[Dale]

The WHC hasn't even been confirmed to be in a Cell just so you know.

Also, it's fucking hysterical reading how these recent champions should have been made from their first title reigns and then comparing it to Batista's is just something else.