Calling it now.

[...god...]

Triple H is going to return to put over/give Drew McIntyre a rub. It'll be by/at Summerslam. Main reason he was drated to Raw.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

...and don't rule out the possibility of Drew McIntyre actually becoming a big-time player over on Raw here in the next couple months.

Yup...

 

[...god...]

Kinda feel bad for Swagger/Morrison/Dolph, though. Yet another year where they stack Raw and screw young guys over. Two of those guys are actually former world champions in the record books, lololol, I'm afraid that may be their claim to fame forever.

 

[Rell]

Can't feel bad for Zig, he's simply not over. Vickie is his crutch.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Can't feel bad for Zig, he's simply not over. Vicky is his crutch.

Managers returning to WWE >_>... for that purpose.

It's like people forgot we used to have managers for a LOT of main event talent, and guys people actually considered good. Granted, Andre drew crowds no matter what, but he did need a manager to be his mouthpiece. Yokozuna? Shit without Mr. Fuji. Hogan NEEDED Jimmy at one point in his career. And there's been a helluva lot of talent that rode around under Jim Cornett.

The problem with the WWE nowadays is them projecting this idea that guys need to get over on their own, with no help, from anyone. Had it not been for Shawn Michaels and DX, I really don't know that Triple H ever would have established himself with the crowd, even if he did establish himself with Stephanie's pussy. They might have tried to shove him down our throats but he got established with the audience because of DX and HBK.

These guys don't grow through anything anymore. It's just, "get out there and spew what we tell you and hopefully it gets you over. If it doesn't, then you're future endeavored and we'll just blame your lack of charisma." What they're doing with Dolph, with Vickie, is the correct way to try and establish this young man. Give him some credible wins, and let him get the "cheap heat" you all like to refer to it as, and then let him do what they used to do... break away from the bitch manager and really shine by getting his ass kicked by her new employee, returning from injury a month or two later and getting his revenge.

They just DON'T BUILD anyone or anything anymore. Everything is just sloppily thrown together.

 

[Airfixx]

^^^Good post!!!! (Y)

...Anyway, in the case of Swagger, whilst his character would blatantly suit a 'coach' type manager, he doesn't need one.

I thought he carried the mic well as WHC.

I'm hoping the Cole rub will do the biz for Swagger atm, but unfortunately Cole's nowhere near on his nuts (whilst commentating) as much as he was Miz's.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

Managers returning to WWE >_>... for that purpose.

It's like people forgot we used to have managers for a LOT of main event talent, and guys people actually considered good. Granted, Andre drew crowds no matter what, but he did need a manager to be his mouthpiece. Yokozuna? Shit without Mr. Fuji. Hogan NEEDED Jimmy at one point in his career. And there's been a helluva lot of talent that rode around under Jim Cornett.

The problem with the WWE nowadays is them projecting this idea that guys need to get over on their own, with no help, from anyone. Had it not been for Shawn Michaels and DX, I really don't know that Triple H ever would have established himself with the crowd, even if he did establish himself with Stephanie's pussy. They might have tried to shove him down our throats but he got established with the audience because of DX and HBK.

These guys don't grow through anything anymore. It's just, "get out there and spew what we tell you and hopefully it gets you over. If it doesn't, then you're future endeavored and we'll just blame your lack of charisma." What they're doing with Dolph, with Vickie, is the correct way to try and establish this young man. Give him some credible wins, and let him get the "cheap heat" you all like to refer to it as, and then let him do what they used to do... break away from the bitch manager and really shine by getting his ass kicked by her new employee, returning from injury a month or two later and getting his revenge.

They just DON'T BUILD anyone or anything anymore. Everything is just sloppily thrown together.

Andre needed a mouthpiece as a heel because he was a Frenchman and couldn't speak clearly enough to complete the biggest feud of the first boom period. It wasn't that he couldn't draw, but Heenan was easily the most over heel on the company and they saddled the company's longest running face to complete an epic heel turn. Although vikki is probably the most over heel in the company, she gets cheap heat, they need Heenans and Harts, not Coles and Vikkis. The difference between the two is that your Harts and Heenans could establish and turn people on the flip of a dime while Cole and Vikki can generate some heat but that's about it.


The HHH push thing...he WAS pushed down the fans throats. Dude went from mid carding to headlining in two months. The thing is, while he was being pushed down peoples throats the company's top stars were putting him over HUGE. If Rock , Foley and Austin hadn't done the honors in the ways they did, how would Trips look today? Probably similar to Sheamus and Miz's positions. If the E wasn't so affraid to have Cena, Orton, Taker and Trips look vulnerable to upcoming guys things would be aot better and we'dhave some next HhHs instead of Sheamuses and MIzs.

 

[...god...]

Swagger's title run was so underrated and criticized for stupid reasons. He was perfect on the mic and people forget they even gave him a fucking CLEAN victory of Orton, the first and only I can remember. The problem was, he was left to feud with people like Big Show and no one even gave a fuck about Swagger from the start because he was being jobbed in the low-card, then he randomly becomes world champion? Just awful. He held his own perfectly on the mic and formulated his character. It's pretty much a travesty what's happened to him lately, but thankfully, the Cole/Lawler storyline got him some attention again.

 

[...god...]

Also, uhh, I don't see where this need to include Miz with Sheamus mentality is coming in. Miz is a fuckin star now. He lost the title? Big fucking deal, he's still one of the main parts of the show and has created a fantastic character, far greater than Sheamus' ever was, lol. Miz is never going away, we won't mindlessly see him win the US title next year, it won't happen and you're stupid if you think it will. Miz actually got over on incredible, possibly the best, mic work and promos in the company for one whole year before he got his chance to shine. What the fuck did Sheamus ever do? Sheamus never got reactions even mildly CLOSE to Miz's nor was he nearly as over in any way. I like Sheamus, but the guy came out and said the same 9-10 words (Miz has been saying remotely the same stuff lately, but his promos are still dead-on and at least somewhat diverse and thoughtful) and that whole fact that they basically just threw a random guy in the main event. Triple H wasn't a random guy they threw in the main event, he was aligned with Shawn Michaels for a long time, then created a retardedly over faction by himself, and THEN was aligned to the Corporation where he'd run around and rape people to get even more heat. There really isn't THAT many differences with how Miz's run has went. The thing that actually fucking matters, is what happens afterwards. Triple H continued to get legitimized and even when he dropped the title, he was inserted in the most interesting storyline going; the storylines are what really keep people interested in someone and if they can make em work. Obviously, they COULD have had it work with Sheamus, but they did shit with him and he quickly became irrelevant just like he ALWAYS was, even when he had the fucking WWE title. Miz is the exact opposite, he's always been relevant, he always gets reactions, he always sells merchandise (Sheamus did none of these things, btw), and he'll always continue to. They COULD fuck it up and have him start facing Kofi for the IC title in a few months, but like I said, that won't happen, so there really is no need to feel bad and cry about him losing the WWE title and pretend like he's been damaged and booked so badly oh so much in the past year, especially coming from me who DESPISES John Cena.

Btw, if you wanna continue on the HHH references and comparisons, guess who won at Wrestlemania (in a cheap manor) and lost the title at the next PPV to the top face as well? LOLOLOL. Where was the IWC to bitch about that? Wahhh HHH not getting a chance to carry the show and being booked poorly.

 

[1chiban]

Swagger's title run was so underrated and criticized for stupid reasons. He was perfect on the mic and people forget they even gave him a fucking CLEAN victory of Orton, the first and only I can remember. The problem was, he was left to feud with people like Big Show and no one even gave a fuck about Swagger from the start because he was being jobbed in the low-card, then he randomly becomes world champion? Just awful. He held his own perfectly on the mic and formulated his character. It's pretty much a travesty what's happened to him lately, but thankfully, the Cole/Lawler storyline got him some attention again.

I think they took the ball away from him too early. Fact of the matter was that he hadn't been built up as a main eventer in the ruin up to the title win (I swear he had been having a mini feud with Santino ahead of the Rumble), so it was going to take a while for people to start taking him seriously. Okay, it didn't set the world on fire, but I was enjoying his run as world champion. Shame they have seemingly blamed him for it being a bit of a damp squib when it was WWE who a) failed to do Swagger justice with what they put in front of him and b) didn't really give him enough of a chance. Had he continued to hold the belt and continued to defeat people, by whatever means, then he would've slowly but surely become credible. There is absolutely no patience in wrestling these days.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Andre needed a mouthpiece as a heel because he was a Frenchman and couldn't speak clearly enough to complete the biggest feud of the first boom period. It wasn't that he couldn't draw, but Heenan was easily the most over heel on the company and they saddled the company's longest running face to complete an epic heel turn. Although vikki is probably the most over heel in the company, she gets cheap heat, they need Heenans and Harts, not Coles and Vikkis. The difference between the two is that your Harts and Heenans could establish and turn people on the flip of a dime while Cole and Vikki can generate some heat but that's about it.

I was in no way denouncing Hart and Heenan, and I said Andre could draw anywhere. But the fact of the matter is, they addressed his weakness with a manager, and while Andre could have pulled it off without being vocalized, Heenan helped elevate that feud into possibly the most epic feud wrestling has ever seen. My point is that, while Vickie will get Dolph cheap heat, they're actually using a proven formula for success with the kid... it's on THEM to establish it at the critical turning point though, which they've failed to do repeatedly with other stars in the last decade.

But I'm making the point that WWE NEEDS to go back to the formula of mouthpieces... and good ones at that. I'm honestly looking forward to the Tyson Kidd/Michael Hayes tandem we've got brewing... because love him or hate him for his work backstage, Hayes as a manager was always incredible. We need managerial roles for these guys... it's not a be all and end all for a guy to not be able to work the mic as well as someone else. There was a time when Undertaker ONLY used "Rest In Peace" after Paul Bearer ranted for 9 minutes about the crematorium ad nauseam... and this was even after he was main eventing and winning titles.

The HHH push thing...he WAS pushed down the fans throats. Dude went from mid carding to headlining in two months. The thing is, while he was being pushed down peoples throats the company's top stars were putting him over HUGE. If Rock , Foley and Austin hadn't done the honors in the ways they did, how would Trips look today? Probably similar to Sheamus and Miz's positions. If the E wasn't so afraid to have Cena, Orton, Taker and Trips look vulnerable to upcoming guys things would be aot better and we'd have some next HhHs instead of Sheamuses and MIzs.

Triple H was not main eventing in 2 months, he was brought in with his Pedigree moniker, the womanizer, and then eventually got his role with DX where he undercarded Shawn Michaels and they repetitively hinted at him (as IC champion) taking on Shawn Michaels (as WWE champion) but using it to keep others from the belt. Then he feuded with the Nation and Mankind for months and months... then he got his break with the feud with Shane & Test and Vince and started the McMahon-Helmsley era.

The fact of the matter is though, he established himself with the crowd because of DX and HBK, not because of anything he did prior.

But yes, they need to have Cena lose a feud... they need to have Orton get destroyed in the ring... they simply don't do enough to establish the young guys other than hoping they strike promo oil, when the reality is the promos they write really can't be delivered much better by anyone.

 

[PeepShow]

No fucking way. He just lost to CHRIS MASTERS on SUPERSTARS. Not a chance.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

I was in no way denouncing Hart and Heenan, and I said Andre could draw anywhere. But the fact of the matter is, they addressed his weakness with a manager, and while Andre could have pulled it off without being vocalized, Heenan helped elevate that feud into possibly the most epic feud wrestling has ever seen. My point is that, while Vickie will get Dolph cheap heat, they're actually using a proven formula for success with the kid... it's on THEM to establish it at the critical turning point though, which they've failed to do repeatedly with other stars in the last decade.

But I'm making the point that WWE NEEDS to go back to the formula of mouthpieces... and good ones at that. I'm honestly looking forward to the Tyson Kidd/Michael Hayes tandem we've got brewing... because love him or hate him for his work backstage, Hayes as a manager was always incredible. We need managerial roles for these guys... it's not a be all and end all for a guy to not be able to work the mic as well as someone else. There was a time when Undertaker ONLY used "Rest In Peace" after Paul Bearer ranted for 9 minutes about the crematorium ad nauseam... and this was even after he was main eventing and winning titles.



Triple H was not main eventing in 2 months, he was brought in with his Pedigree moniker, the womanizer, and then eventually got his role with DX where he undercarded Shawn Michaels and they repetitively hinted at him (as IC champion) taking on Shawn Michaels (as WWE champion) but using it to keep others from the belt. Then he feuded with the Nation and Mankind for months and months... then he got his break with the feud with Shane & Test and Vince and started the McMahon-Helmsley era.

The fact of the matter is though, he established himself with the crowd because of DX and HBK, not because of anything he did prior.

But yes, they need to have Cena lose a feud... they need to have Orton get destroyed in the ring... they simply don't do enough to establish the young guys other than hoping they strike promo oil, when the reality is the promos they write really can't be delivered much better by anyone.

I know you weren't denouncing the guys. I was trying to kind of show what amanagers use can be. Not onlyh to establish talet, but to turn top talent as well. Anyone can benefit from a skilled manager.

R.e Trips..
Been viewing this place on the cell so thughts are jumbled and typos galre but I meant that he was midcarding all of 99 then BAM he is pushed HARD down the fans throats and over the next 16 months he goes repeatedly over Foley, rock and austin, AND gets to work with the top heel in the company in Vince. I never said it was a bad idea, I'm merely saying they should push heels today like that. But they don't. And having bankable heels is as essential to wrestling as bankable faces.



G1...your looking at Trips thru rose tinted lenses, vato.

 

[Airfixx]

Enzo, mere days ago, you dodged approaching the HHH-thing with me in any detail in another thread, but now you're stirring up the same debate with another person in another thread...? Hmmmmmmmmm...

 

[...god...]

wtf? My post was comparing Miz to HHH, nowhere did I present bias for him, if anything the opposite.