Big Brother is HERE!

[John McHenry]

The National Security Administration is secretly collecting phone record information for all U.S. calls on the Verizon network. “Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls,†reports The Guardian, which broke the story of the top-secret project after it obtained record of a court order mandating Verizon hand over the information.

The contents of the call are not recorded and it is also not known whether Verizon is the only cell-phone carrier complying with the massive spying project. The court order concerns all calls to, from, and within the United States.

With this so-called “metadata,†the government knows “the identity of every person with whom an individual communicates electronically, how long they spoke, and their location at the time of the communication,†explains the Guardian.

The Senate’s tech-savviest member, Ron Wyden (CrunchGov Grade: A), has been discretely warning citizens of these kinds of secretive government projects. “There is now a significant gap between what most Americans think the law allows and what the government secretly claims the law allows,†wrote Wyden and Senator Mark Udall to embattled Attorney Eric Holder.

The order apparently draws from a 2001 Bush-era provision in the Patriot Act (50 USC section 1861). The revelation dovetails similar exposes on massive government spying projects, including one project to combine federal datasets and look for patterns on anything which could be related to terrorism.

Late last year, I wrote about a few actual harms that citizens should be worried about from these types of big-data spying programs. Blackmailing citizens critical of the government seemed like a distant hypothetical, until we learned that the IRS was auditing Tea Party groups and journalists were being wiretapped. Nefarious actors inside the government like to abuse national security programs for political ends, and that should make us all (even more) suspect of government spying.

Some government secrecy is necessary for national security purposes. But it’s justified based on our trust that the information will be used with care. With every passing scandal, the justification for these types of programs becomes more and more questionable.

Either way, this is a massive PR disaster for Verizon. While it’s true that AT&T had it’s own spying scandal, misery still loves company. It’s in Verizon’s interest to somehow implicate other carriers in the spying program. If Verizon is, indeed, not the only carrier, I suspect we’ll be finding out in the near future.

It's inevitable anyone that doesn't realize that is stupid. Personally I don't have much of a problem with it as I'm doing nothing wrong. Do I think it's necessary not really. If it goes overboard and laws are starting to be influence behavior modification and all that then I'll raise a fuss.

 

[Troy]

It doesn't bother me that much either, I know that I haven't done anything wrong so I don't need to worry about it. It is like people complaining about speed cameras being everywhere or being hidden, I simply don't speed and that has meant that I have never had a speeding fine in my life. Also if I was going to be hyper critical of the Australian government I wouldn't be dumb enough to voice my discontent over the phone either.

Just on that article though one thing that bugs me is the complaint about "IRS was auditing Tea Party groups". I read the stories about that "scandal" and I still can't figure out what they did wrong. They had a surge in groups applying for tax exempt status and that status doesn't extend to political groups. It is common sense to search for groups with the words Tea Party in it since they would be politically affliliated just like they, presumably, search for words like Democrats and Republicans. Seems like an efficient way to sort through the excess data and if those groups weren't politcally linked then they had nothing to worry about anyway.

 

[We Are Legion]

Let's be serious though, this was always going to happen eventually. Watch some old futuristic-movies from the 80's and early 90's before everyone actually had a cellphone and even Hollywood saw this coming. This is seriously no surprise. And unless you're a drug-dealer, you don't have anything to worry about. Yet.

The only problem I could see possibly coming from this later is if it starts flagging you for suspicious activity, such as constantly talking to different numbers and driving to several residences a day, basically something that could peg you as a drug-dealer or something. Even if you're a legit salesman or vendor. I can't think of any negative way it could affect me though.

But it's sort of like in that movie "SE7EN" where they talked about the FBI flagging certain books in the public library so they know who's reading books on terrorism, Hitler, and bomb-making, etc. It's not stuff that could be used directly in court, but it would help with investigations so authorities could at least start looking in the right direction.

 

[John McHenry]

Even the drug dealers are worry free right now it's all about terrorist

 

[We Are Legion]

Well, I don't make any phone calls to Saudi Arabia either, so I guess I'm good there too lol

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

Legion reminded me of the time I had to fill out an info sheet just to be able to buy a Hunter S. Thompson book for my friends birthday, Fear & Loathing on the Campaign Trail.

I have nothing to worry about, since none of my calls ever go to, or from the states. However, this is still an invasion of privacy, and against the basic rights the citizens are told they have in their constitution. This is just another example of you losing your rights, along with the "Occupy Wallstreet" movement where your freedom of speech, and right to an assembly were both taken back, yet Hitler & The Nazi's were able to assemble at Madison Square Gardens.

 

[John McHenry]

First off nowhere in the Constitution does it say the right to unmonitored cell phone calls. As far as the freedom of assembly yeah they still have the right to deny you especially when what you're doing tries to inhibit others from what they do (trying to prevent them from getting into work etc). Don't try to make it a rights issue cause it's not. It's a morale issue. Simple solution to it too. Go to a cellphone company that doesn't give up your shit.

 

[We Are Legion]

I don't really think you could call this "invasion of privacy" just yet because the content of your calls won't be recorded or monitored. It's no different than a police officer watching you drive into a McDonalds. He knows where you're going, but he's not invading your privacy. This is pretty much the same thing, only with a cell phone. When the content of your calls starts being encroached on, then we can start freaking out, but I don't think we're headed there yet.

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

Monitoring phone calls is a violation of basic privacy. The right to bare arms didn't include semi automatic rifles with extended mags and options for rpg attachments, so on that argument, wouldn't that right only include blunderbusses, flintlock pistols etc. All I ask of you is to think, you do not have to agree with what I say, but simply think about it.

As a rule, if your basic rights are being attacked, you should be offended, and attempt to make your voice heard. Have you ever studied WW2?, the Hebrews living in Germany as Hitler was rising to power believed their government would step in and stop the ongoing issues, but we all know how well that ended for them. "Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it"

And to your point on public assembly, The Westboro Baptist Church denies people their right to grieve when they protest a funeral, preach hatred, and are allowed to continue. A protest about fairness, and equality was stopped.

 

[John McHenry]

Monitoring phone calls is a violation of basic privacy. The right to bare arms didn't include semi automatic rifles with extended mags and options for rpg attachments, so on that argument, wouldn't that right only include blunderbusses, flintlock pistols etc. All I ask of you is to think, you do not have to agree with what I say, but simply think about it.

As a rule, if your basic rights are being attacked, you should be offended, and attempt to make your voice heard. Have you ever studied WW2?, the Hebrews living in Germany as Hitler was rising to power believed their government would step in and stop the ongoing issues, but we all know how well that ended for them. "Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it"

And to your point on public assembly, The Westboro Baptist Church denies people their right to grieve when they protest a funeral, preach hatred, and are allowed to continue. A protest about fairness, and equality was stopped.

A protest that had occured it's not like they stopped it before it happened. Also they didn't have the proper paperwork from what I read it's not the same thing.

I've bolded what you have that is exactly my point you should be offended. But it isn't a right. Nowhere in the constitution is there a right to privacy. You can argue that AKs etc aren't under the right to bare arms but arms they are so the rights are inherited. Where is that for expectations of privacy?

Just because I'm not concerned about recording metadata that says who I called. As WAL said not calling Pakistan so I think I'm ok. When they start monitoring each and every call I make and try Behavior modification I'll get up in arms. This, this isn't anything.

I mean of all the things the government does this is what we should worry about?

 

[We Are Legion]

Well I doubt if someone murdered the Westboro Baptist Church with automatic weapons, anyone would give a rat's ass. In fact, I doubt even the local PD would even press charges. I'm actually surprised no one has thought about this before.

 

[Keith]

Legion reminded me of the time I had to fill out an info sheet just to be able to buy a Hunter S. Thompson book for my friends birthday, Fear & Loathing on the Campaign Trail.

I have nothing to worry about, since none of my calls ever go to, or from the states. However, this is still an invasion of privacy, and against the basic rights the citizens are told they have in their constitution. This is just another example of you losing your rights, along with the "Occupy Wallstreet" movement where your freedom of speech, and right to an assembly were both taken back, yet Hitler & The Nazi's were able to assemble at Madison Square Gardens.

Couldn't agree more.

Another way to look at it is that it is just another way to distance the public from those in power, it creates a even greater sense of paroniania. Also how often would they actually catch someone, once in a blue moon is my guest.

 

[John McHenry]

A top-secret National Security Agency program gives the federal government surreptitious access to customer information held by Microsoft, Yahoo, Apple, Google, Facebook, and other Internet companies, the Washington Post disclosed today.
The program, code-named PRISM, reportedly allows NSA analysts to peruse exabytes of confidential user data by typing in search terms. PRISM reports have been used in 1,477 items in President Obama's daily briefing last year, according to an internal presentation to the NSA's Signals Intelligence Directorate that the newspaper obtained.
This afternoon's disclosure of PRISM follows a report yesterday that revealed the existence of another top-secret NSA program that vacuums up records of millions of phone calls made inside the United States.
Other companies that are part of PRISM include PalTalk, AOL, and soon Dropbox.
Here's more from the Post's report:
Analysts who use the system from a Web portal at Fort Meade key in "selectors," or search terms, that are designed to produce at least 51 percent confidence in a target's "foreignness." That is not a very stringent test. Training materials obtained by the Post instruct new analysts to submit accidentally collected U.S. content for a quarterly report, "but it's nothing to worry about." ...
Like market researchers, but with far more privileged access, collection managers in the NSA's Special Source Operations group, which oversees the PRISM program, are drawn to the wealth of information about their subjects in online accounts. For much the same reason, civil libertarians and some ordinary users may be troubled by the menu available to analysts who hold the required clearances to "task" the PRISM system.
There has been "continued exponential growth in tasking to Facebook and Skype," according to the 41 PRISM slides. With a few clicks and an affirmation that the subject is believed to be engaged in terrorism, espionage or nuclear proliferation, an analyst obtains full access to Facebook's "extensive search and surveillance capabilities against the variety of online social networking services."

I find some of the discussions hilarious. The television show 24 was a great success and on the show they did this and more. Yes it was a show but people found it completely acceptable and within the suspension of disbelief.


Remember Yesterday, when the television show "Person of Interest" seemed a whole lot more science-fictiony?

 

[ThatGuyFromNukemHigh]

A protest that had occured it's not like they stopped it before it happened. Also they didn't have the proper paperwork from what I read it's not the same thing.

I've bolded what you have that is exactly my point you should be offended. But it isn't a right. Nowhere in the constitution is there a right to privacy. You can argue that AKs etc aren't under the right to bare arms but arms they are so the rights are inherited. Where is that for expectations of privacy?

Just because I'm not concerned about recording metadata that says who I called. As WAL said not calling Pakistan so I think I'm ok. When they start monitoring each and every call I make and try Behavior modification I'll get up in arms. This, this isn't anything.

I mean of all the things the government does this is what we should worry about?

And if you put a frog in cold water, and slowly bring it to a boil, the frog never decides to jump. By the time it becomes all encompassing it could be too late.

 

[John McHenry]

All the companies are denying these reports.

Here's an interesting graphic.

Dunno how much of this I now believe. Not as I said before that this bothers me to much at this step. It's bound to happen soon.