Are you serious? (Decided to watch TNA tonight)

[Beer]

While Cena is still obviously a huge face draw, Orton is the biggest and a Orton vs. Cena feud with Cena as a heel and Orton as the face this time means fucking money. That's a WrestleMania main event you want to have. Who cares if Cena turns heel? Orton is the top draw now. Cena doesn't need to stay a face because he's no longer the top face in the company and he will still make a ridiculous amount of merchandise sales as a heel. Kane is a psychological master for him to get owned every week by Edge is just Blue. Yes he is reliant on Bearer but he isn't Blue.....and every week he failed to get him. It was a terrible storyline and it made Kane look like shit.

Cena isn't the biggest face? :roflmao: And to say that ORTON of all people is bigger than him is also a joke. He WON'T get big merchandise sales if he's a heel; kids buy WWE stuff, and believe it or not, they only want to wear the stuff of the good guy. And you're sounding like a noob on the Kane point - as if you've never seen WWE programming before 2010. When Bearer is in trouble, or when something traumatic happens, Kane gets all hot and unpredictable and upset; he doesn't know what he's doing. Eg. Kane vs Taker WM20, Kane was like, omgwtf? at Taker returning and as a result got absolutely destroyed breaking the run of hot ass wrestling he had leading up to it.

 

[Lady Redfield]

lol like watching the E isn't a mistake. When TNA has better booking you know you're absolute fucking shit. TNA still sucks just not as much as the E at the moment.

Never implied that WWE was the best and totally amazing or anything, lol, but I can't stand watching TNA for even a fraction of a minute. I personally dislike SD since Punk left but I think Raw is great, for the most part.

 

[Beer Money Army]

i record weekly TNA/WWE Programs, Because it saves me watching the shit in which i can just fast forward . I don't record NXT

 

[Luke Flywalker]

I'm sorry to go back to an argument from before - but Kane shouldn't have been in the cat and mouse games with Edge because of who Kane is!?

Are you completely discrediting Edge now? The Ultimate Opportunist? Do we forget that even Taker couldn't pin Edge's every move and Edge outsmarted the Deadman... unarguably the BEST psychological worker the E has probably ever had... and he's not allowed to go over Kane psychologically?

Man... that right there devalues everything you've said about the E in this thread.



As far as Orton, the guy is a pretty huge draw... people mark for him, and he has been a merchandise machine. But no, he's nowhere close to the draw Cena is on the card and on the shelves.

 

[Veritas]

As far as Orton being the top draw in the company right now, that's just rediculous. He may draw good crowd reactions but there is a huge difference between being a top star and a top draw. Nation, you keep saying he's a top draw without giving any details as to why other than he gets good reactions and his stuff is on the front page of the ShopZone site. OK, well he's a top star being booked in top angles, that explains the reactions he gets. Kofi was getting good reactions against Orton last year, does that make him a top draw, too? And his stuff is on the front page of WWE's sales website - couldn't that mean that since WWE is pushing him as the top star at the moment, they also want to push his stuff heavy?

As far as being legit ticket movers, merchandise sellers, PPV attractions, etc there are really only three guys on the roster who've proven themselves, time and again, to actually have earned the title of "draw." They've already been named in this thread by someone else - Cena, Taker, and Mysterio.

Cena is the curent hot ticket and face of the company. He's the guy that the company pushes to all the kiddies as the best in the world today and they believe that, causing them to cry to mommy and daddy until they open their wallets. Mysterio is the niche icket. WWE has never really done well with minorities since Vince Jr. took over but, Mysterio is lucky enough to represent what is likely the largest minority currently in the US - the Mexican and Latino market. Mysterio brings in those fans in droves and is also critical to WWE as they continue to expand their enterprise into Mexico. Undertaker is the man the company pushes as the current living legend and has earned his current position through tenure. The guy has been in the company for almost 20-years at this point and has basically always been a featured main eventer. The audience really seems to buy his current schitck, especially during WrestleMania season, as his Streak -vs- whatever angles are usually one of the most popular programs on the card.

At best Orton would be the 4th best draw in the company and even that I'm not certain about.

 

[nation]

As far as Orton being the top draw in the company right now, that's just rediculous. He may draw good crowd reactions but there is a huge difference between being a top star and a top draw. Nation, you keep saying he's a top draw without giving any details as to why other than he gets good reactions and his stuff is on the front page of the ShopZone site. OK, well he's a top star being booked in top angles, that explains the reactions he gets. Kofi was getting good reactions against Orton last year, does that make him a top draw, too? And his stuff is on the front page of WWE's sales website - couldn't that mean that since WWE is pushing him as the top star at the moment, they also want to push his stuff heavy?

As far as being legit ticket movers, merchandise sellers, PPV attractions, etc there are really only three guys on the roster who've proven themselves, time and again, to actually have earned the title of "draw." They've already been named in this thread by someone else - Cena, Taker, and Mysterio.

Cena is the curent hot ticket and face of the company. He's the guy that the company pushes to all the kiddies as the best in the world today and they believe that, causing them to cry to mommy and daddy until they open their wallets. Mysterio is the niche icket. WWE has never really done well with minorities since Vince Jr. took over but, Mysterio is lucky enough to represent what is likely the largest minority currently in the US - the Mexican and Latino market. Mysterio brings in those fans in droves and is also critical to WWE as they continue to expand their enterprise into Mexico. Undertaker is the man the company pushes as the current living legend and has earned his current position through tenure. The guy has been in the company for almost 20-years at this point and has basically always been a featured main eventer. The audience really seems to buy his current schitck, especially during WrestleMania season, as his Streak -vs- whatever angles are usually one of the most popular programs on the card.

At best Orton would be the 4th best draw in the company and even that I'm not certain about.

You can't compare the reactions that Kingston was getting to what Orton is getting....Orton gets the biggest pop ups and Cena seems to be the central star on RAW at the moment yet Orton is still getting the biggest pops. Why do you think his merchandise is on the front page of the shop? It has to do with the basics of business. You put your top selling merchandise on the front page to advertise it and to make more profit. There is a reason why say I guy like Big Show doesn't have his merchandise on the front page yet guys like Orton and Cena do. Because they're draws and they make the company money. "Pops" are the reactions from the audience which is based on how over and popular you're. I'm sure Cena does make the most money in the kids demographics but anything older I'll bet is all Orton.

Now I'm certainly not going to argue that Mysterio is a huge draw but how come SD has been falling lower and lower in the ratings department? I'm sure it's because the product is terrible at the moment but if Mysterio is such a massive draw why does SD continue to do poorly? It can't be the network. Syfy is one of the biggest primetime networks. Hardly anyone even knows what MyNetwork TV is and if they do they know it's the network that never has shit on ever.

 

[Veritas]

Now I'm certainly not going to argue that Mysterio is a huge draw but how come SD has been falling lower and lower in the ratings department? I'm sure it's because the product is terrible at the moment but if Mysterio is such a massive draw why does SD continue to do poorly? It can't be the network. Syfy is one of the biggest primetime networks. Hardly anyone even knows what MyNetwork TV is and if they do they know it's the network that never has shit on ever.

To see what Mysterio means to SmackDown! you only have to look as far back as a few years ago when he was drafted to RAW. The RAW rating didn't improve with Mysterio's jump but the SmackDown rating decreased significantly. At least by a .3 from what I can remember. His return to SmackDown! saw a minor return in the ratings. The Latino audience, for one reason or another and I don't know what that is, seems to associate Mysterio with the blue brand and there are returns on that.

Why does SmackDown! do so poorly? Maybe it's the night. They were doing really good ratings (during a heightened period mind you) on a weaker station on Thursday nights. Friday and Saturday nights are typically not good viewing nights for any show because it's the nights of the week most people are likely to be out and about, not watching TV. The term "Friday Night Death Slot" is even common in the TV industry - it's where shows go to die. The fact that SmackDown! hasn't (yet) should be seen as a positive. Since the show was originally moved to Fridays, there have been 2 network changes that, for whatever reason, decided to continue airing the show on Friday instead of returning to Thursday or, really, any other week.

As for your claims of SyFy being one of the biggest primetime networks - that's wrong. And comparing them to MyNetwork is offbase because one is, like you claim, a network and the other is a broadcaster - they syndicate x-hours of programming a day to other networks and local stations to supplement their current programming. And, as a broadcaster, MyNetworkTV actually had deeper penetration than SyFy, by a couple tens of thousands of homes actually.

My guess as to why the SmackDown! rating is so low is a combination of 3 things - network, night, and perception. The recent live Tuesday SmackDown on USA , in a way, proves my first two theories correct. That show did something like a 2.5, well above what SmackDown is currently doing on SyFy on Fridays, which is like a 1.7 I believe. USA is a stronger network and Tuesday is a much, much better night. SyFy could try experimenting and moving SmackDown! to another night and see if that helps the rating any but constantly shuffling times and nights has never been a positive to any show, wrestling or otherwise.

The perception thing, well, it breaks down like this - WWE paints SmackDown! as the B-brand and the audience reacts accordingly. A number of casual fans can get their weekly wrestling fix on Monday with the A-show because, when WWE all but tells them that's where the big stars are, why even bother with the other show? If WWE could get SmackDown on a stronger network, on a stronger night, and actually treated it as a show equal to RAW, I don't think there would be any problems with the rating there.

 

[nation]

To see what Mysterio means to SmackDown! you only have to look as far back as a few years ago when he was drafted to RAW. The RAW rating didn't improve with Mysterio's jump but the SmackDown rating decreased significantly. At least by a .3 from what I can remember. His return to SmackDown! saw a minor return in the ratings. The Latino audience, for one reason or another and I don't know what that is, seems to associate Mysterio with the blue brand and there are returns on that.

Why does SmackDown! do so poorly? Maybe it's the night. They were doing really good ratings (during a heightened period mind you) on a weaker station on Thursday nights. Friday and Saturday nights are typically not good viewing nights for any show because it's the nights of the week most people are likely to be out and about, not watching TV. The term "Friday Night Death Slot" is even common in the TV industry - it's where shows go to die. The fact that SmackDown! hasn't (yet) should be seen as a positive. Since the show was originally moved to Fridays, there have been 2 network changes that, for whatever reason, decided to continue airing the show on Friday instead of returning to Thursday or, really, any other week.

As for your claims of SyFy being one of the biggest primetime networks - that's wrong. And comparing them to MyNetwork is offbase because one is, like you claim, a network and the other is a broadcaster - they syndicate x-hours of programming a day to other networks and local stations to supplement their current programming. And, as a broadcaster, MyNetworkTV actually had deeper penetration than SyFy, by a couple tens of thousands of homes actually.

My guess as to why the SmackDown! rating is so low is a combination of 3 things - network, night, and perception. The recent live Tuesday SmackDown on USA , in a way, proves my first two theories correct. That show did something like a 2.5, well above what SmackDown is currently doing on SyFy on Fridays, which is like a 1.7 I believe. USA is a stronger network and Tuesday is a much, much better night. SyFy could try experimenting and moving SmackDown! to another night and see if that helps the rating any but constantly shuffling times and nights has never been a positive to any show, wrestling or otherwise.

The perception thing, well, it breaks down like this - WWE paints SmackDown! as the B-brand and the audience reacts accordingly. A number of casual fans can get their weekly wrestling fix on Monday with the A-show because, when WWE all but tells them that's where the big stars are, why even bother with the other show? If WWE could get SmackDown on a stronger network, on a stronger night, and actually treated it as a show equal to RAW, I don't think there would be any problems with the rating there.

Again, I'm not disputing the fact that Mysterio is a huge draw. Just pointing out how poorly SD has been doing lately. Of course SD pulled over better numbers on Thursdays. This is a fact. SD actually beat RAW in the ratings for quite awhile during the Lesnar/Angle era. The reasons why the ratings were much higher on a Thursday? Like you said the weekend is the worst time to air a show versus airing on weekdays where people aren't out spending their free time with no school and work days off. The biggest reason however is that the audience was much larger back in the early 00's and the 90's especially when the attitude era was one of the hottest things going on primetime television.

Now obviously it's a different story and the majority of the prior audience has since stopped watching the product through various different reasons. Every cable company has SyFy while not every company carries MyNetworkTV. I recall some people here saying they don't get it. To put it simply more people know what SyFy is than MyNetworkTV. Millions more. Everyone knows that it is. Anyone who has MyNetwork knows it carries local programs and random fox shows. Obviously there are bigger networks and I am not going to argue USA versus SyFy because obviously USA is a bigger network but many people know it's the sister channel of USA(they're both owned by NBC) and especially within the last year the change in programing SyFy has had to look similar to USA.

Anyways, yes there are better networks to air it on but SyFy has a much larger audience(that tunes in to the channel) then MyNetworkTV does so it's strange to see the ratings drop so much though to be brutally honest the quality of the product has dropped significantly since the move to SyFy. So if Mysterio is such a huge draw why have the ratings been dropping on a larger station? Maybe it's because the quality has dropped like I mentioned but the drop in ratings does question Mysterio's ability to draw(Yes of course he is a draw for the company I am not implying he isn't).

Once upon a time SD was actually the A brand during late 2002-early 2003 but that was a long time ago and sadly it's just not going to get the support it deserves. Why it doesn't go back to it's original time slot is beyond me. Obviously it was cause competition with another company which has been battling SD in the ratings but with the move it will bring huge growth. If they're really threatened so much about competition though competition is proven to be good for the wrestling business, move it to Tuesday or Wednesday. Stop limiting your audience.

 

[Airfixx]

@ Nation: I won't bother shitting all over your last response to me... Bases have quite clearly been covered by the other members.


Enjoy your failed grasp of what drawing power is and your dirt sheet derived 'knowledge' ( : P ) of TNA & WWE - I'm sure it will serve you equally as well in future debates.

 

[nation]

@ Nation: I won't bother shitting all over your last response to me... Bases have quite clearly been covered by the other members.


Enjoy your failed grasp of what drawing power is and your dirt sheet derived 'knowledge' ( : P ) of TNA & WWE - I'm sure it will serve you equally as well in future debates.

You think way too highly of yourself. In all most all of your arguments you're clearly biased towards the E. Guess you got out debated. The logical thing to have done was have the GM do something about Cena running around backstage yet he didn't.

 

[seX-Power]

When something is pretty much better than another thing in almost every single way and you favour it, then I'm pretty sure it's not being biased.

 

[nation]

Having a terrible tag team division, incredibly disappointing storylines/feuds and guys like DiBiase who should be in a solid position in the midcard or even getting a big push attempt, jobbing is not really better in every single way lol. Anyways, I'm not going to argue. Both companies both suck but they both have their advantages and disadvantages. The E has added great prestige to the midcard belts, Miz is getting a huge push, Morrison is finally getting his big break and it's paying off, Natalya is finally getting the push she deserves, and all of the "top stars"(Orton, Cena, Edge, Mysterio, Sheamus, Barrett, Punk, Kane) are all in solid positions. Guys like Del Rio, Rhodes, Ziggler, and Danielson have been pushed very nicely especially Del Rio. TNA has failed to bring guys to the next level, screwed over their stars, pushed rejects like Robbie E and has fucked over the X-Division immensely. What they have going for them is the best tag team in the world the MCMG, Jeff Jarrett getting epic heat, Hardy having a major heel run and getting over as a heel, credible faces with RVD, Morgan and Mr.Anderson, and nice turns for Morgan and Williams.

 

[seX-Power]

DiBiase is rather horrid. Why should he be pushed?

As for the rest of the post, I agree with the part about the tag division but when it all comes down to it the WWE being better in every way may be an exaggeration but 90% of people would still call it superior to TNA and not even really close either.

 

[nation]

DiBiase is rather horrid. Why should he be pushed?

As for the rest of the post, I agree with the part about the tag division but when it all comes down to it the WWE being better in every way may be an exaggeration but 90% of people would still call it superior to TNA and not even really close either.

I'm sure you would think so after DiBiase has been paired with Maryse for 6 months and jobbing for months with not much of an attempt to do anything with them and having moments where Maryse would confront Ted only to follow it up with them still being together somehow. I like DiBiase. I'm one of the pro Rhodes fans but DiBiase does have alot of talent. He was great when he first had his debut, he was good in priceless before legacy happened and towards the end of the legacy and the fallout he was good again. They could have pulled the switch and turned him face but DiBiase just has that heel look. I'm not to sure how well he would fare as a face but it's worth an attempt to see what happens. DiBiase has the potential to be a big star. He had the mic skills, a nice gimmick and character, and he can go in the ring. He needs to go back to his old Priceless or Legacy theme though, his theme now is fucking garbage. They teased a face turn like a month ago when he got pissed at Maryse, don't know why they didn't follow it up. Right now it would be pretty sweet to see how DiBiase will perform as a face. He needs a major turn. Jobbing to Goldust ruined any credible he had.

As for what company is better as a whole the E is better but Impact beats RAW imo but who really cares they both suck and wrestling has been in a major decline in quality and the ratings for awhile now.

 

[seX-Power]

DiBiase was never good. He was better than Rhodes when he debuted but Rhodes has improved more than anyone else in the company in the last few years and DiBiase has always gone downhill. He was boring in Legacy and what gimmick he could have in singles competition has never been properly utilized. Also he never really got over well.