African American Wrestlers

[Solid Snake]

But to bring this back to topic...
WWE has not participated in racial prejudice within the company in a long, long time. Proof? Look how they treated Hogan when he make a racist comment.

 

[CiV]

[HASHTAG]#SnoopDogLivesMatter[/HASHTAG]

I mean...you tried.

 

[Stopspot]

But to bring this back to topic...
WWE has not participated in racial prejudice within the company in a long, long time. Proof? Look how they treated Hogan when he make a racist comment.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

It still exists within the company. Primo and Epico constantly get shouldered with "you're latino, here's a stereotype gimmick" schtick. Or Rusev's evil Russian brute character, whilst a legitimate threat and he made a lot of lemonade out of piss working it, but that was still a character with a lot of racial undertones.

Santino made a career out of being an Italian stereotype

 

[Solid Snake]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

It still exists within the company. Primo and Epico constantly get shouldered with "you're latino, here's a stereotype gimmick" schtick. Or Rusev's evil Russian brute character, whilst a legitimate threat and he made a lot of lemonade out of piss working it, but that was still a character with a lot of racial undertones.

Santino made a career out of being an Italian stereotype

Stereotyping and racism are two different things. He was playing to a racial stereotyping and if the wrestler had an issue with it, they could have declined. You can add in Eddie, MVP, Cryme Tyme as well to the stereotyping. There are tons more too. If this was at all racism the company would have went belly up by now.

 

[Solid Snake]

Also people judge each other based on stereotyping every day, it doesn't make them racist. Racism deals with hate and prejudice. Stereotyping can become this but when it comes to acting (in the wwe or otherwise) it rarely does.

 

[Stopspot]

Stereotyping and racism are two different things. He was playing to a racial stereotyping and if the wrestler had an issue with it, they could have declined. You can add in Eddie, MVP, Cryme Tyme as well to the stereotyping. There are tons more too. If this was at all racism the company would have went belly up by now.

How is the evil foreigner gimmick not racist?

 

[Solid Snake]

How is the evil foreigner gimmick not racist?

It is stereotyping. They are/were playing off of people's emotions in certain areas and how they view foreigners. What was going on in the news at the time was part of the reason they did it. I know you don't likely follow American news, but trust me, it wasn't racist. They do crap like this here all the time.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

How is the evil foreigner gimmick not racist?

Its entertainment.

Racism is an actual belief that certain races are inferior to others.

 

[Stopspot]

It is stereotyping. They are/were playing off of people's emotions in certain areas and how they view foreigners. What was going on in the news at the time was part of the reason they did it. I know you don't likely follow American news, but trust me, it wasn't racist. They do crap like this here all the time.

Time for me to come off as a bit PC. But a lot of stereotyping is obviously racially loaded .

A lot of racism starts as stereotypes. The lazy Mexican, the thieving black guy, evil muslim. These are all negatively loaded stereotypes directed at certain groups of people. It is an incredibly slippery slope from comedy/entertainment into hate speech.

Vince gives these foreign guys these gimmicks because it is amusing to him 9 times out of 10. I'm pretty certain Cesaro wasn't that happy when they had him yodeling for like 2-3 months back in 2014.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

Stereotyping is racially loaded tho.

A lot of racism starts as stereotypes. The lazy Mexican, the thieving black guy, evil foreigner. These are all negatively loaded stereotypes directed at certain groups of people. It is an incredibly slippery slope.

Vince gives these foreign guys these gimmicks because it is amusing to him 9 times out of 10. I'm pretty certain Cesaro wasn't that happy when they had him yodeling for like 2-3 months back in 2014.

Because someone "does something all the time" doesn't necessarily make it okay tho.

Don't call stupid shit like having a couple of Mexican guys portray matadors for entertainment as racist. It just discredits the actual racism that occurs daily in the world. Real racism would be you have a couple of talented mexican guys who want to wrestle in WWE but Vince says "get the fuck out, no beaners will work in my company hahahahaha!"

Massive difference

 

[Solid Snake]

Stereotyping is racially loaded tho.

A lot of racism starts as stereotypes. The lazy Mexican, the thieving black guy, evil foreigner. These are all negatively loaded stereotypes directed at certain groups of people. It is an incredibly slippery slope.

Vince gives these foreign guys these gimmicks because it is amusing to him 9 times out of 10. I'm pretty certain Cesaro wasn't that happy when they had him yodeling for like 2-3 months back in 2014.

Because someone "does something all the time" doesn't necessarily make it okay tho.

I wasn't arguing that it was okay, but the reality is, it is something that happens all the time in the entertainment industry and its intent is hardly ever racism though I know it can lead to that. Vince is playing to what is happening in culture. I guess it depends on how you take it. Making assumptions isn't racist but it certainly can become that when you accompany it with hate. I highly doubt that Vince does it for his own amusement entirely. When Eminem was a huge deal, We had thug John Cena. He does it to keep up with the times. I see it as entertainment fueled by culture and news. Does it make it okay? No, stereotyping shouldn't be a thing, but it gets people watching and that is what he cares about.

 

[Solid Snake]

I guess to me, it is like when a black comedian makes jokes about whites, it is all in entertainment and that is how I see what Vince is doing. Right or wrong, it isn't meant to be taken seriously. I live in an area where true racism is and it ain't pretty.

 

[Stopspot]

I get the entertainment aspect of it. And I would be a hypocrite if I said I haven't enjoyed some of the content produced. Or laughed at a "black movie" for example.

But some things makes you wonder over the years. Like taking guys like Psycosis, Juventud and Super Crazy, three of the best luchadores of their time. And just putting them on lawnmowers.

I guess what I am trying to say is as long as it isn't the entire character I'm fine with it. Yokozuna is a good example of it done right. Big bad foreigner, but he was also a big bad man in general. He wasn't evil because he was foreign, he was evil because he was a big bully. But when you get something like Cesaro yodeling, without any motivation for it outside of being Swiss. Then it rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Solid Snake]

I get the entertainment aspect of it. And I would be a hypocrite if I said I haven't enjoyed some of the content produced. Or laughed at a "black movie" for example.

But some things makes you wonder over the years. Like taking guys like Psycosis, Juventud and Super Crazy, three of the best luchadores of their time. And just putting them on lawnmowers.

I guess what I am trying to say is as long as it isn't the entire character I'm fine with it. Yokozuna is a good example of it done right. Big bad foreigner, but he was also a big bad man in general. He wasn't evil because he was foreign, he was evil because he was a big bully. But when you get something like Cesaro yodeling, without any motivation for it outside of being Swiss. Then it rubs me the wrong way.

And that is completely understandable. I'd sure hope if it bothered him, he spoke out about it. I think it was meant to be a joke, kind of like Santino but clearly didn't fit the kind of wrestler he is or his gimmick so it was pointless.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

I get the entertainment aspect of it. And I would be a hypocrite if I said I haven't enjoyed some of the content produced. Or laughed at a "black movie" for example.

But some things makes you wonder over the years. Like taking guys like Psycosis, Juventud and Super Crazy, three of the best luchadores of their time. And just putting them on lawnmowers.

I guess what I am trying to say is as long as it isn't the entire character I'm fine with it. Yokozuna is a good example of it done right. Big bad foreigner, but he was also a big bad man in general. He wasn't evil because he was foreign, he was evil because he was a big bully. But when you get something like Cesaro yodeling, without any motivation for it outside of being Swiss. Then it rubs me the wrong way.

I just look at pro wrestling like I look at stand up comedy.

Are you trying to make a joke? If the answer is yes, there is no reason for people to be offended. People say you can't joke about this or that? bullshit. watch me do it. At the end of the day (lads) its just comedy. Its not meant to be taken seriously.

Pro wrestling, same to me. Look at the history of the "sport" lol. Its made to be absurd. If Vince is trying to get someone over or entertain (himself or others) with his booking, that's just wrestling. You can't say New Day is entertaining and then turn around and bitch about another stereotypical gimmick because all ideas (or jokes from the previous example) are birthed the same birth. You don't know how a live crowd will react, you try and see what happens. And ultimately if you did have a truly racist booker paying people to portray stereotypes in some sort of heinous plot to try and hold people down and genuinely spread hate and racism... I would personally take a bigger issue with the performers taking money to go out and belittle their own people for a buck over the evil racist paying them to do so. But I sincerely doubt that circumstance exists as I'm sure you aren't trying to say anything like that exists either.

So that's my defense for Vince or any booker. They are in a whacky industry where who knows what the fuck will stick. Good gimmicks and bad gimmicks are born the same birth.