WWE RAW July 16th 2012 Live Discussion Thread

[Matt]

My nocturnal blunders will NOT get the better of me this time!!! :tough:

 

[Crayo]

My nocturnal blunders will NOT get the better of me this time!!! :tough:

Lmao I love how in some threads you're like "NO STFU I DO DIS" and then use words like nocturnal in others. You are the ultimate troll. :win:

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

Working again tonight :facepalm1:

will probably make my reaction thread as I watch tonight when I get off

Not expecting a great show, go figure.

 

[Matt]

Lmao I love how in some threads you're like "NO STFU I DO DIS" and then use words like nocturnal in others. You are the ultimate troll. :win:

:burns:

 

[CircusWithoutClowns]

Hopefully the MITB fallout is solid tonight.

 

[Crayo]

This ep should be pretty decent imo. Dolph Ziggler mic segment please.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

Dolph Ziggler dumping Vickie segment please.

He starts by buttering her up, thanking her for stopping Christian from winning. Then he tells her she is no longer needed and starts ripping into her. She is reduced to tears, and even King, Vickie's biggest hater, says how awful a person Dolph is and how he feels sorry for Vickie. Dolph flicks his hair grease at her one last time before leaving, mocking women and children on his way back up the ramp.

 

[Crayo]

Dolph Ziggler dumping Vickie segment please.

He starts by buttering her up, thanking her for stopping Christian from winning. Then he tells her she is no longer needed and starts ripping into her. She is reduced to tears, and even King, Vickie's biggest hater, says how awful a person Dolph is and how he feels sorry for Vickie. Dolph flicks his hair grease at her one last time before leaving, mocking women and children on his way back up the ramp.

And voila you have a face.

Needs to be done better than that.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

And voila you have a face.

Needs to be done better than that.

Nah. He might get a face pop for that segment (he is already getting face pops anyway) but it would be the start of a character tweak to actually do more heelish things. I've said time and time again he isn't even a heel at this point, he's a tweener.

 

[Crayo]

Nah. He might get a face pop for that segment (he is already getting face pops anyway) but it would be the start of a character tweak to actually do more heelish things. I've said time and time again he isn't even a heel at this point, he's a tweener.

He's meant to be a heel, just poor booking results in him genuinely looking like a face. The point is, ditching Vickie will get casuals on his side regardless. He can still ditch the biggest heel in WWE without turning face, it just neeeds to be stupidly casual.

Remember the "I don't need this..." storm out we all marked for? That. Instantly align Vickie to Swagger/Tensai, Dolph goes solo and no one mentions it. Way too soon in Dolph's main event days to book him as a tweener.

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

He's meant to be a heel, just poor booking results in him genuinely looking like a face. The point is, ditching Vickie will get casuals on his side regardless. He can still ditch the biggest heel in WWE without turning face, it just neeeds to be stupidly casual.

Remember the "I don't need this..." storm out we all marked for? That. Instantly align Vickie to Swagger/Tensai, Dolph goes solo and no one mentions it. Way too soon in Dolph's main event days to book him as a tweener.

I agree he shouldn't be booked as a tweener, but that's what is happening right now. His only heel quality is Vickie. He doesn't cheat (besides maybe an odd roll up tights grab here and there) he doesn't bash his opponent (he usually puts them over in his mic segments) and he gets the shit beat out of him in his matches like you would expect a face to, not a heel. Dumping Vickie might make him slightly more face-like for now, but that's not an issue. Getting Vickie the fuckout is more important than Dolph staying at 50% heel instead of dropping to maybe 30%.

The point is he can do this, lose Vickie, and then focus on becoming more of a proper heel instead of the tweener he's become. Bring back the #Heel slogan/t-shirts, start bashing his opponent & the fans, cheat to win, become more arrogant and implement his showing off into his matches more, have him cheap shot some of the casuals favorite faces.. and he will be fine, and get heel heat (at least split between heel heat from casuals and praise from smarks, but all good heels get praise from smarks in some cities). Dumping Vickie, especially if done in brutal fashion with even King on Vickie's side, will not turn him perma-face. It's a nice first step in him becoming a proper heel.

 

[Crayo]

I agree he shouldn't be booked as a tweener, but that's what is happening right now. His only heel quality is Vickie. He doesn't cheat (besides maybe an odd roll up tights grab here and there) he doesn't bash his opponent (he usually puts them over in his mic segments) and he gets the s*** beat out of him in his matches like you would expect a face to, not a heel. Dumping Vickie might make him slightly more face-like for now, but that's not an issue. Getting Vickie the fuckout is more important than Dolph staying at 50% heel instead of dropping to maybe 30%.

The point is he can do this, lose Vickie, and then focus on becoming more of a proper heel instead of the tweener he's become. Bring back the #Heel slogan/t-shirts, start bashing his opponent & the fans, cheat to win, become more arrogant and implement his showing off into his matches more, have him cheap shot some of the casuals favorite faces.. and he will be fine, and get heel heat (at least split between heel heat from casuals and praise from smarks, but all good heels get praise from smarks in some cities). Dumping Vickie, especially if done in brutal fashion with even King on Vickie's side, will not turn him perma-face. It's a nice first step in him becoming a proper heel.

Pretty much agree with it all, though I'd still do the ditching casually and just have him build himself up as a solo instead of launching it off Vickie. He's good enough on the mic to cut one promo establishing himself as a strong solo heel. That mixed with the things you've said would have him on solid ground. I think he needs to incorporate more of his wit too, Dolph's a funny guy and casuals love to hate a cocky but funny heel. Like what he said about Foley stealing his kids lunch boxes lmao.

 

[GrammarNazi82]

Dang, the first couple of pages of this thread had me confused with talk of pre-MITB bits... until I realized they were posted on the 14th, two days before tonight's live Raw event. Sheesh .... head start much?

 

[Dolph'sZiggler]

Pretty much agree with it all, though I'd still do the ditching casually and just have him build himself up as a solo instead of launching it off Vickie. He's good enough on the mic to cut one promo establishing himself as a strong solo heel. That mixed with the things you've said would have him on solid ground. I think he needs to incorporate more of his wit too, Dolph's a funny guy and casuals love to hate a cocky but funny heel. Like what he said about Foley stealing his kids lunch boxes lmao.

Yea he is definitely a naturally witty and hilarious guy. He's so long overdue to start going toe to toe with top faces in mic segments, it will be great to see him finally unleashed. I definitely get what you are saying about splitting him up with Vickie a little more generically to not give him any unwanted praise from casuals, but the way I have it in mind I think I could turn Vickie into a somewhat sympathetic figure and Dolph into the ultimate cocky, brash, douchey asshole. Of course though this is WWE we are talking about, so they would completely botch my idea even if they attempted it.

 

[Crayo]

Yea he is definitely a naturally witty and hilarious guy. He's so long overdue to start going toe to toe with top faces in mic segments, it will be great to see him finally unleashed. I definitely get what you are saying about splitting him up with Vickie a little more generically to not give him any unwanted praise from casuals, but the way I have it in mind I think I could turn Vickie into a somewhat sympathetic figure and Dolph into the ultimate cocky, brash, douchey asshole. Of course though this is WWE we are talking about, so they would completely botch my idea even if they attempted it.

Lmao it probably could be done if booked perfectly. But as soon as they see Vickie the whole arena boo's. It's not even "I hate Vickie" boo's anymore it's just routine. You have to hate on here, the smarks, marks, casuals, fags, crew, wrestlers and pets all boo her. Making them sympathise would have to be Paul Heyman style booking brother :hogan: 1: