WWE Holding Shawn Michaels Appreciation Night in August

[The Cork]

If Bret was a ratings cancer, explain to me why WWE didn't start losing the ratings war until Bret and two wrestlers he put over immensely (Hall and Nash) left after WM12. The internet hate for Bret Hart and his name being dragged in to every thread involving Shawn Michaels is ridiculous. It's truly a tell-tale sign of someone's cluelessness when they assume any critic on earth still has a side of the fence between those two because of Survivor Series 97 which is childish and idiotic in every sense of the words. I love both wrestlers immensely, but Michaels could have never done what Bret did because Michaels wasn't doing it when he was still relevant. Michaels hasn't been relevant since 1998 and the only people he put over were his friends, Vader to an extent, and Austin (against his will). A very welcomed addition since 2002 definitely, unquestionably the best Wrestlemania matches every year he participated at the event... but not relevant.

I'm not gonna argue that Michaels didn't draw, that I agree with you.

But Bret was a bona fide main eventer then too, and WWF champ for a lot of 1997. Bret didn't leave after WM 12......he left late '97, WWE started beating WCW again in early 1998 when Bret Hart was WCW World Champ for a period. Lets not play smoke and mirrors here, Bret was a top man in two failing companies so he has Michaels beat as far as killing ratings goes. I'll wait for someone to now point out "he was a huge international draw", which is another myth.

As for him not putting anyone over....fair enough in his first run, but he more than made up for that in his second. The only reason people talk about Shelton Benjamin is that match wiith Michaels, nothing else.

 

[Chris]

All Angle did for Benjamin was bring him up, Team Angle didn't even last that long before Haas and Benjamin went on their own anyway. Triple H and Shawn Michaels both put over Benjamin pretty hard during his original singles run before they called in his mama to ruin him.

 

[We Are Legion]

I'm not gonna argue that Michaels didn't draw, that I agree with you.

But Bret was a bona fide main eventer then too, and WWF champ for a lot of 1997. Bret didn't leave after WM 12......he left late '97, WWE started beating WCW again in early 1998 when Bret Hart was WCW World Champ for a period. Lets not play smoke and mirrors here, Bret was a top man in two failing companies so he has Michaels beat as far as killing ratings goes. I'll wait for someone to now point out "he was a huge international draw", which is another myth.

As for him not putting anyone over....fair enough in his first run, but he more than made up for that in his second. The only reason people talk about Shelton Benjamin is that match wiith Michaels, nothing else.

Yes, Bret DID leave after Wrestlemania 12 because of his contract situation and he didn't come back until Survivor Series 96. Michaels was THE guy during that period. Bret was never the top guy for WWE during their struggle against WCW. He had a brief run as world champ after Summer Slam 97, but look who his feuds were against... Shawn Michaels and The Patriot. So if you're going to blame Bret for the "failing company", you automatically have to give an equal, if not greater, amount of credit to Michaels for that.

And Bret was never the "top guy" in WCW, I have no idea what you're talking about there. He had a title run at the end of 99, but WCW had a million other problems by that point besides Bret Hart. Bret really shouldn't even be mentioned in WCW's astronomical levels of FAIL by that point. If they had made him world champion right away when he crossed over after Survivor Series 97, or even in 1998, then yeah I would agree. But late 99? No way. WCW was only a few months away from David Arquette's infamous title reign and their roster was loaded with some of the industry's biggest all-time draws. Bret had absolutely nothing to do with WCW's decline.

 

[Deezy]

Why must everyone still bring up shit that both HBK and Bret Hart have stopped bitching about?

Bitch for the sake of bitching itt.

So HBK gets an Appreciation night, oh yeah, thats cool. Might or might not pop a decent rating.

Whens the the Taker apprecation night?

 

[SAIYANS]

Takers only downfall is the gimmick. If he was a biker I'm sure they would honor him more than they do

First of all, I am not Canadian, as I only moved here 3 months ago. I'm actually Texan... you know... the state where Shawn Michaels is from? Just clearing that up so you can acknowledge you have no clue what you're talking about.

Secondly, it's pretty ridiculous you assume that all Montréal fans are Bret Hart fans and anti-HBK just because of an incident way back in late 97.

Michaels, a draw? Oh please, give me a break. Michaels was never... ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER a draw. You have seriously got to be shitting me. Even in the prime of his career, he couldn't sell out the friggin Alamodome in his home town at the 97 Royal Rumble. 60,000 is still about 20,000 short of that building's capacity for a wrestling event. And being near 3 other major cities, that had to hurt.

And no... none of the wrestlers you mentioned were "put over" by Michaels. Where are Benjamin and Masters now? What did they do? No one ever talks about those matches or the wrestlers you mentioned anymore. And Ted and Cody had one match against DX... so what? Ted isn't doing anything anymore either and Cody would be right where he is now without that match because of his feud and Wrestlemania match against Mysterio and his singles feud against Orton which were realistically his two biggest moments. The DX match didn't elevate his career at all, as he was still a "lacky to Orton" as you put it... even though his tenure in Legacy did a lot more for his career than even you seem to give Cody credit for. Cody owes a shit ton more to Orton than he will ever owe to Michaels.

And piss off with the "Bret wank" nonsense ffs, I haven't posted anything warranting that crap. Bret definitely put over a lot more people than Michaels, including Michaels himself and his entire clique, but that's not what we're talking about and I honestly don't give a crap about Bret.

If Bret was a ratings cancer, explain to me why WWE didn't start losing the ratings war until Bret and two wrestlers he put over immensely (Hall and Nash) left after WM12. The internet hate for Bret Hart and his name being dragged in to every thread involving Shawn Michaels is ridiculous. It's truly a tell-tale sign of someone's cluelessness when they assume any critic on earth still has a side of the fence between those two because of Survivor Series 97 which is childish and idiotic in every sense of the words. I love both wrestlers immensely, but Michaels could have never done what Bret did because Michaels wasn't doing it when he was still relevant. Michaels hasn't been relevant since 1998 and the only people he put over were his friends, Vader to an extent, and Austin (against his will). A very welcomed addition since 2002 definitely, unquestionably the best Wrestlemania matches every year he participated at the event... but not relevant.

The hate is strong. Read carefully.

Michaels in his second stint headlined alonside Cena, the most bought WM of all time at WM23. That is a fact. You are going on about shawn before 98 and ignoring the phrase "in his second stint"

Michaels headlined 3 of the most bought summerSlams of the millennium versus Hogan and as half of DX.

He headlined 2 of the most bought survivor series in the past 6 or 7 years as Team Captain of DX and the sole captain of Team Austin.

Shawn has headlined multiple chamber ppvs with solid buys.

Taker vs Shawn was the match of WM26 and got over 800k buys

Hell Shawn's induction was more watched than Austin, Hogan, or Edge on USA; second only to Flair viewership wise. DX's reunion in 2006 was the highest rated thing on the number 1 cable network there is.

Like it or not you got to get it through your head that he has been relevant, has drew, has moved merch, has gotten viewers, and did a hell of a lot of good for the company in his second coming. To ignore that or be so blind our cant admit is bull shit

Legacy had one match? I see you don't watch very carefully at all. Legacy took out Trips, Trips called Shawn back, and then they beat both down on Raw before their SummerSlam match where they lost. Then the next month at breaking point they were five credi for concussion HHH and making Shawn tap in the secondary main event of a submissions count anywhere match. Then their third match at HIaC saw them dominate until both members of DX got inthe cell and locked Ted out when they used SCM and a hammer to beat Cody, they put Legacys credibility over, not Orton, as being with Orton alone was getting their ass whooped and treated like rag dolls

As for what happened to Shelton and Masters? Thea and Wellness, Thea and Wellness

 

[Deezy]

Takers only downfall is the gimmick. If he was a biker I'm sure they would honor him more than they do


The hate is strong. Read carefully.

Michaels in his second stint headlined alonside Cena, the most bought WM of all time at WM23. That is a fact. You are going on about shawn before 98 and ignoring the phrase "in his second stint"

Michaels headlined 3 of the most bought summerSlams of the millennium versus Hogan and as half of DX.

He headlined 2 of the most bought survivor series in the past 6 or 7 years as Team Captain of DX and the sole captain of Team Austin.

Shawn has headlined multiple chamber ppvs with solid buys.

Taker vs Shawn was the match of WM26 and got over 800k buys

Hell Shawn's induction was more watched than Austin, Hogan, or Edge on USA; second only to Flair viewership wise. DX's reunion in 2006 was the highest rated thing on the number 1 cable network there is.

Like it or not you got to get it through your head that he has been relevant, has drew, has moved merch, has gotten viewers, and did a hell of a lot of good for the company in his second coming. To ignore that or be so blind our cant admit is bull shit

Legacy had one match? I see you don't watch very carefully at all. Legacy took out Trips, Trips called Shawn back, and then they beat both down on Raw before their SummerSlam match where they lost. Then the next month at breaking point they were five credi for concussion HHH and making Shawn tap in the secondary main event of a submissions count anywhere match. Then their third match at HIaC saw them dominate until both members of DX got inthe cell and locked Ted out when they used SCM and a hammer to beat Cody, they put Legacys credibility over, not Orton, as being with Orton alone was getting their ass whooped and treated like rag dolls

As for what happened to Shelton and Masters? Thea and Wellness, Thea and Wellness

This is not generic HBK hate, but let's not rewrite history and say HBK and Cena were the draw for WM 23, Donald Trump was the major reason for that buyrate.

Taker/HBK were a big part of 26, but let's not forget Bret Hart also helping out with that buyrate also.

Also, there is no need to automatically label people or take it as a persoanl attack when they disagree with you.

HBK getting an appreciation night is justified. He was damn good at his job and deserves every accolade he gets. But lets not proclaim he invented the wheel here.

 

[We Are Legion]

It's okay PSYCH, you can go on thinking Shawn Michaels was some humongous draw and the second coming of Jesus Christ if you want, because no matter how many cold hard facts I throw at you, you're only going to believe what you want to believe despite how completely wrong you are.

Point blank, Shawn has been Vince's stepchild every since 1996 simply because he didn't jump ship with the rest of his friends and he was willing to be Vince's trigger man at the 97 Survivor Series. Not to mention his best friend really is Vince's son now, so he's always going to be overpraised by WWE. The people who write WWE's history books are all Shawn's extended family practically, so he's always going to be seen by WWE fans as something larger than he was. That dvd that proclaimed him the "#1 superstar of all time" was the most ludicrous example of it.

Fact of the matter is, aside from DX and his Wrestlemania matches, Shawn's career has been pretty average. Fantastic wrestler, but the guy has absolutely no legacy despite the crap WWE shovels.

 

[SAIYANS]

He was the first grand slam champ iirc for the company, multiple time rumble winner, pioneer of the chamber, ladder, and HIAC. No legacy?

Amd you still refuse to even touch on his 2002 run because you can't argue with what he did there as a draw. You just keep falling back to 96 and 97

 

[We Are Legion]

There's nothing to touch of his "2002 run". He feuded with his best friend for practically the first two years... won another championship even though he claims he didn't want to be champion but he agreed to be champion anyway... had a short feud with the biggest draw in the history of wrestling (Hogan) and lost and bitched and moaned because Hogan didn't give him his win back... then reconciled with his best friend and reformed a neutered version of DX and dragged that on for a year as a side-show act... then spent the remainder of his career feuding with Jericho, Orton, Cena, Batista, Flair, Undertaker and every other already-established star in the company with the OCCASIONAL match with young talent... what is there to touch? Pretty fucking average if you ask me.

You're hugging DX's (a stable that involves another person, a legit draw in Triple H) brief feud with Legacy as your only grain of evidence that Shawn put over young talent. Seems like every time he wrestled young guys, his buddy Trips was there to hold his hand and protect Shawn's prestigious dvd image.

 

[Chris]

"He feuded with his best friend the first two years." And what's wrong with that? The feud was awesome with some great matches. So what he got one title reign, that's still 7 years 2003-2010 of him being one of the top stars of the company, putting on some of the best matches, yet not winning a world title.

 

[SAIYANS]

He held the belt for a month just to put over Flair really and truly before they made Flair turn on him in 3 stages of hell and began the evolution concept. Do you even remember how Austin lost his GM spot, as in who pinned him and left him a beaten and bloody pulp? Raw for the most part only had a few young guys when he was there in Shelton (made him look like a million bucks), Legacy, Carlito, Masters (still his best work of his career), Jeff (they started a little thing with them before Jeff got fired), and Evolution when he was full time active minus the injury times. He also put over Edge the singles act helping him move to the next tier.

It wasn't like he didn't do a lot for the brand, provide Raw moments and matches, great of outings, sell merch, draw viewers, and wasn't a top 5 guy along with Trips, Cena, Taker, and Dave

 

[Big Red Jericho Punk]

Excellent points by Psych and I have no problems with this. Raw has been horrible anyway so why not let Shawn get his own night. I just hope he doesn't sweet chin music the tag team champs and Drew McIntyre again like last time. Maybe something epic could happen with Shawn back like last time if people know what I mean ( CM Punk shoot).

 

[SAIYANS]

I mean we have an extra hour to burn anyhow so it really shouldn't change that much of Raw, unless if they reduce the amount of Ace which would only be a bonus

 

[Big Red Jericho Punk]

Jericho HBK confrontation would be a mark out moment.

 

[We Are Legion]

Johnny Ace/HBK confrontation a lot more-likely. You'll get your HBK fix... but at a cost. :OLE!: