Wow RE: The WWE Title Match From Yesterday

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Luke Flywalker

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^It also helps to know that they asked people like Kofi and Carlito to enhance their accents (though they've since cut back on Kofi)...
 

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No, not ready to sell out Mania, but if he were to face someone the likes of John Cena, Randy Orton, a returning Triple H, or even a face Chris Jericho, he wouldn't do horribly. As far as in-ring, has anyone even tried to consider the fact that perhaps ALMOST losing to Jerry Lawler (if you can even call that a low point) would help build his growth while holding the title if he starts defeating the really established people? It's an incredible way to build him and his championship actually, instead of having him thrust into a main-event scene with a Dave Batista or CM Punk where he has two months of a title reign which he ultimately loses and then gets his rematch the next 4 months in a row and doesn't win a single one of 'em (John Cena makes me laugh, especially how some of you let him get away with these stories, face of the company or not). But you're right, The Miz's name alone will not sell out WrestleMania this year... neither would Cena's though, and that's just being completely fucking real. Now if Cena were facing someone the crowd can tolerate (say a Randy Orton, or Triple H... they'd cream over the thought that there's someone the E would actually let defeat him).

Yeah Cena's wont sell out mania, no one cares about him, oh wait....




Actually, no. Sexual Chocolate was a pretty memorable thing... I've never wanted to have any of that repeated though. Hassan was pretty memorable... but I never wanted to go see that feud live, or even have it carry on for the length that it did. Legacy's initial impact was very memorable, and it never really amounted to shit for me... I don't wish to see the group reform.

If it was that memorable, you'd pay to see it again, unless of course, you're just a flash in the pan who barely gets a reaction when his music plays lime Miz.


Drawing is the ability to do memorable shit week-in and week-out

Something Miz can't do, and that's why he's not WWE Championship material.

Or maybe you just need to be booked to win relentlessly (see Bill Goldberg, WCW). And if I'm not mistaken, Miz actually has a win over DX to his credit... and on the stick with two of the best mic-men the E has had in the last 15 years... he actually stayed right in with 'em even before the speech and acting classes... so I'd say he can hang just fine. I'd also imagine if Miz ever got an opportunity to face a main-event status opponent without the title... you'd be saying he's not ready for that action because he never faced anyone from that caliber. Kaedon, in your world of wrestling fantasy... how on Earth does anyone ever make it to the main event scene? Because as you tell it... John Cena, Randy Orton, Triple H, CM Punk, Chris Jericho, Undertaker, Kane, and Mysterio would be the only main event we would have in the WWE and the shit would just be a repetitive circle of the possible main events you could draw from those superstars... kind of like the last 3 years prior to Sheamus coming into the scene. In fact, I just read that the WWE has featured either John Cena or Randy Orton in a main event/title match at every single pay per view for 3 years, so don't try to say that's an absurd statement. Besides, have you not considered what wonders it would do to actually have Miz go over a guy like Cena or Orton in "fair" fashion (i.e. no Money in the Bank)? If Miz (as champion) were to defeat one of the top stars in the WWE? The guy would literally sky-rocket... it's actually what a majority have asked of the WWE recently (wanting to build superstars)... I mean, shit... by your logic, how the FUCK did HBK earn or deserve a MANIA win over Brett Hart? I mean, we're talking a career midcarder who fought a career midcarder for years... Michaels won a rumble... lost at WM in a pretty forgettable match... won another rumble sure... and then was deemed ready to defeat possibly the best champion the E had in the 90's? Hell, it can be argued MITB is actually as difficult to win as Royal Rumble anyways... and then with the stip, you get an advantage... sure... but let the man go on and do something with it and prove people like you wrong.
Simply, by earning your spot, by showing that you can carry the title by working with guys who are above you and holding your own, and not having to be carried.


Yeah, clearly someone doesn't quite grasp the definition of change...

And someone doesn't grasp the concept of splitting hairs.


Actually, aside from the Straight Edge stuff, his character IS developed and improved by far over what he was a year ago. Shit, the simple fact they're allowing him to feud with the face of the company over the Big Show with this is a sign of the E having more trust in him. His character is focused on the psychological game now rather than the use of drugs... and he's taking over a group of rising stars, not leading a group of castaways who can't maintain character and draw down the storyline Punk is involved in (yes, yes, that was out of Punk's control... I get it) but the fact of the matter is this: the basis and focus of Punk's character is ultimately different and more important (improved) than it was a year ago... and the fact that the E is letting him play the psychological game now nearly overstates that fact.

So the fact that he's feuding with John Cena is proof of his character changing...



The Rock's biggest claim to fame prior to his WWF Championship career was his ladder-match win for the IC Title over Triple H... and his feud with DX. The Rock's growth between the Corporation and the time of his next big championship run was infinite... a tremendous growth... a growth which probably never would have been possible without the first bullshit run during the corporation. The thing that made the Rock intriguing is that the E used him to keep the title off of guys like Stone Cold, the Undertaker, and Triple H. If he was "The Chosen One" to be the champ over those guys, surely he had something to offer beyond the comical relief he provided on the stick... hmm... sounds a whole helluva lot like the Miz (minus the huge IC title win and havign Vince hug his nuts in the middle of the ring)...


Actually, his biggest claim to fame was the series of matches and the feud he had with Austin whilst he was in the Nation that overshadowed Bret Hart and DX.


And MS, please tell me you're not comparing The Undertaker working the indies for 7 days a week, wrestling night in and night out, gaining experience, to Miz working a few OVW shows a week and doing flat back bumps in front of Al Snow or Hugh Morris....it's the difference between reading about something, and DOING SOMETHING. Miz was practicing, Undertaker was DOING. I will agree Cena and Batista got the title wayyyy to early, which is why their matches at WM were such garbage and got DICK for a response.


And MS if The Miz right now were to be as hot as the Rock was back then, I'd shut my fool mouth, but he's barely over. Do you listen to the crowd when he's out there? They barely make a peep. The same can't be said for Rock.

Flies in the face of everyone?

Punk didn't spend 2 years in OVW "training", he did it in the ring, on the indies, night after night, day after day. He didn't just have someone go "ok kid do another back drop" 50,000 times. Once again, like Taker, Punk got out there and DID IT, Miz just sat back and watched.

Edge, Bret Hart, Ric Flair, DDP, Shawn Michaels, Harley Race, Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, would you like me to continue? Guys who worked and worked and worked, and didn't just sit back and watch guys for two years while someone said "take another bump kid". That's not experience, that's mindless repetition. If you want to repeat something, do what the greats did and get out there in front of a crowd every night and learn that way. "I've been wrestling for 3 years" now a days means the guy has had a handful of matches, where as back in the day, they had over 600. Why does it matter? Experience. I know, none of that matters, all that matters is who's hot right now, so give the belt to Mr. Ziggles then, because during his match with Kofi on SD, the crowd was hotter on him and Kofi than anything the Miz has ever done in or out of the ring.
 

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And MS, please tell me you're not comparing The Undertaker working the indies for 7 days a week, wrestling night in and night out, gaining experience, to Miz working a few OVW shows a week and doing flat back bumps in front of Al Snow or Hugh Morris....

A point about Miz, he didn't start his training in OVW or under WWE for that matter. He was wrestling for a few years prior to WWE, even during some of the MTV shows he was recording. Some people may remember him talking about his character on those shows. He got his start sometime in 2003 in Cali with Rick Bassman's UPW, the same school Joe, Kazarian, Test, Cena, and a shitload of other guys came from. Miz DID do Indies for a few years, it's just never acknowledged by WWE because he's better known as a reality TV star.

If anything Miz's background is a plus for him because, aside from Punk and so far Danielson, who else has been able to ride their Indy fame to success in the WWE? Most of the time, success on the Indies is considered a bad thing in WWE. Miz got a lucky break because, for one reason or another, WWE views him as a home grown talent.
 

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Last time I checked, 2 does not exceed "a few" so we're all good.
 

Luke Flywalker

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Yeah Cena's wont sell out mania, no one cares about him, oh wait....
Judging by the "incredible" split of cheers and boos (let's split that 50-50 and then consider maybe only a few male audience members are a part of the cheering, and the rest are a part of the boos), I'd say Cena couldn't sell out Monday Night Raw all on his own... in fact, the sheer number of people who actually marked when Cena got jumped by Nexus (it was a pretty huge POP from the crowd, rather than a heat-superior moment) is a testament to that argument. How many people bought WrestleMania the past few years just to see John Cena? I know for a fact that the Houston Mania sold tickets to people strongly in favor of JUST seeing HBK and Money In The Bank... Cena is not the most in demand performance on the grandest stage of 'em all.

Don't get me wrong, we're not arguing that he doesn't have more people in favor of him than against him, and he does get reactions which top nearly all other superstars... but we're not exactly talking like the E is producing guys to really challenge that at the moment.



If it was that memorable, you'd pay to see it again, unless of course, you're just a flash in the pan who barely gets a reaction when his music plays lime Miz.
You actually pay to see something topped, not really repeated. Given that EVERYTHING has been repeated over the last couple years and numbers have steadily declined or fallen to an even level way below WWE's early-mid 2000's numbers, I'd say there aren't many people who are buying into shit the WWE is doing, thus, even the top performers on the cards are not the draws you would insist they are over even the guys who are just now getting opportunities to prove they can be the future ME scene...




Something Miz can't do, and that's why he's not WWE Championship material.
I haven't been ultimately blown away by the Miz, but I'm not clouding my judgment of the guy by wanting him off my screen the second he hits it... and I'd actually color myself impressed with his performances the past several weeks; especially considering, what if he goes over Orton at the Rumble? Again, you'd rather see the strap on who right now? Let's immediately eliminate Cena and Orton for their numerous back and forth runs over the past 3 years, so that leaves us with Punk, Sheamus, R-Truth, and Ted DiBiase.

Punk's involved in a storyline right now with Cena, so eliminate him immediately from the title picture. Outside of attacking Triple H and being clowned by Santino, Sheamus pales in comparison (icwutididthar) to The Miz in terms of crowd reaction (by the way, the fact that you said Miz gets no reaction at all, I've got to question what you've ever really watched of the guy, because last I checked, he was pretty much behind Jericho and Punk as heel mic-men on Raw. R-Truth, well, I'm biased in my absolute hate for the guy, he gets pops, etc., but IMO if you put the strap on R-Truth, you're hard-pressed to not put the World Heavyweight Championship on a younger, more athletic, and more naturally charismatic Kofi Kingston who has put on some GREAT matches with Jack Swagger, whereas Truth has not had a match that has stood out to me. But I'll play the fair card and say my hate for Truth equates to your hate for Miz, so we'll call that one a draw. Last is DiBiase, who, again, became what Cody Rhodes was supposed to become, whereas Cody is ascending the ranks much like The Miz did.


Simply, by earning your spot, by showing that you can carry the title by working with guys who are above you and holding your own, and not having to be carried.
Once again, Miz went over DX. And again, we're talking about a MITB winner. So you're suggesting Miz should have forfeit the MITB briefcase and devoted himself to years upon years of playing the Chris Benoit role and waiting for another company to overrun this one before jumping ship and being given the strap on the sympathy-tip? No, you don't surrender what MITB means like that... he won the belt the same way any of 'em have, the same way anyone would with that stipulation... and instead of being beaten for the belt within a month like the other guys, the E has actually given this guy a run...




And someone doesn't grasp the concept of splitting hairs.
Splitting hairs = That Dorito is Cheddar and THAT Dorito is Spicy Cheddar; it's pointing out a very minute but somewhat obvious difference.



So the fact that he's feuding with John Cena is proof of his character changing...
Yes, and the way in which he's feuding with Cena comparable to the way in which he feuded with the overrated mid-carder Big Show. By the way, did you watch Raw the other night? He's now gone from reformist by example to gang-leader manipulator... the guy literally jumped in his Nexus! We're not talking recruits the likes of DX, we're talking Bloods and Crips style jump-ins in the PG-era WWE!




Actually, his biggest claim to fame was the series of matches and the feud he had with Austin whilst he was in the Nation that overshadowed Bret Hart and DX.
The Rock's feud with Austin lasted 3 months, and was a sidebar (albeit a pretty good one) feud to his overall feud with Triple H and Farooq. In fact, after that Austin feud, Rock didn't really encounter Austin again for quite a long time because of Triple H, Farooq, Ken Shamrock, and Mankind. Then, after that long-ass feud with Mankind, Rock finally got his chance to feud with Austin... I suggest you read an autobiography or watch a documentary sometime, Kaedon. You seem a bit rusty here.



i agree with Kaedon.
Who doesn't agree with him about guys having to improve? All anyone is saying is that Miz doesn't have to improve as much as Kaedon is suggesting.
 

Kaedon

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Judging by the "incredible" split of cheers and boos (let's split that 50-50 and then consider maybe only a few male audience members are a part of the cheering, and the rest are a part of the boos), I'd say Cena couldn't sell out Monday Night Raw all on his own... in fact, the sheer number of people who actually marked when Cena got jumped by Nexus (it was a pretty huge POP from the crowd, rather than a heat-superior moment) is a testament to that argument. How many people bought WrestleMania the past few years just to see John Cena? I know for a fact that the Houston Mania sold tickets to people strongly in favor of JUST seeing HBK and Money In The Bank... Cena is not the most in demand performance on the grandest stage of 'em all.

Don't get me wrong, we're not arguing that he doesn't have more people in favor of him than against him, and he does get reactions which top nearly all other superstars... but we're not exactly talking like the E is producing guys to really challenge that at the moment.

Yes, the fact that no matter where he goes, Cena gets the loudest response is a detriment. People pay to see Cena, people don't pay to see Miz, not yet.

You actually pay to see something topped, not really repeated. Given that EVERYTHING has been repeated over the last couple years and numbers have steadily declined or fallen to an even level way below WWE's early-mid 2000's numbers, I'd say there aren't many people who are buying into shit the WWE is doing, thus, even the top performers on the cards are not the draws you would insist they are over even the guys who are just now getting opportunities to prove they can be the future ME scene...

Riiiiiight, Edge, Punk, and Cena are not the draw that Miz is.



I haven't been ultimately blown away by the Miz, but I'm not clouding my judgment of the guy by wanting him off my screen the second he hits it... and I'd actually color myself impressed with his performances the past several weeks; especially considering, what if he goes over Orton at the Rumble? Again, you'd rather see the strap on who right now? Let's immediately eliminate Cena and Orton for their numerous back and forth runs over the past 3 years, so that leaves us with Punk, Sheamus, R-Truth, and Ted DiBiase.
Punk's involved in a storyline right now with Cena, so eliminate him immediately from the title picture. Outside of attacking Triple H and being clowned by Santino, Sheamus pales in comparison (icwutididthar) to The Miz in terms of crowd reaction (by the way, the fact that you said Miz gets no reaction at all, I've got to question what you've ever really watched of the guy, because last I checked, he was pretty much behind Jericho and Punk as heel mic-men on Raw. R-Truth, well, I'm biased in my absolute hate for the guy, he gets pops, etc., but IMO if you put the strap on R-Truth, you're hard-pressed to not put the World Heavyweight Championship on a younger, more athletic, and more naturally charismatic Kofi Kingston who has put on some GREAT matches with Jack Swagger, whereas Truth has not had a match that has stood out to me. But I'll play the fair card and say my hate for Truth equates to your hate for Miz, so we'll call that one a draw. Last is DiBiase, who, again, became what Cody Rhodes was supposed to become, whereas Cody is ascending the ranks much like The Miz did.

Yes, let's take Punk out because he's in a feud with Cena.....why? Why? He's the hottest heel in the company but nah, lets ignore him. And as far as me not listening to the crowd, the crowd gives Vickie, Cole and JOHN CENA more heat than the Miz gets just when he comes out. Just behind Jericho? Are you high? And how many fucking times do I have to list the 6 or 7 guys I'd give the title to over the Miz right now?


Once again, Miz went over DX.
I forgot how much wins and losses matter.


And again, we're talking about a MITB winner. So you're suggesting Miz should have forfeit the MITB briefcase and devoted himself to years upon years of playing the Chris Benoit role and waiting for another company to overrun this one before jumping ship and being given the strap on the sympathy-tip?

I think I just vomited reading that you want to compare Miz to Benoit, a guy who was trained by the greatest compared to Miz who was trained by Al Snow, who, while good, is not a Hart. No, I'm not suggesting he forefit his MITB, I suggest the company not just blindly give people chances. You don't get a chance "just because it's your turn", you don't get a push to get over, you get over to get a push. He's not over enough to get a world title push.

Splitting hairs = That Dorito is Cheddar and THAT Dorito is Spicy Cheddar; it's pointing out a very minute but somewhat obvious difference.

mod·i·fi·ca·tion
noun \ˌmä-də-fə-ˈkā-shən\
Definition of MODIFICATION
3
a : the making of a limited change in something; also : the result of such a change


Yes, and the way in which he's feuding with Cena comparable to the way in which he feuded with the overrated mid-carder Big Show. By the way, did you watch Raw the other night? He's now gone from reformist by example to gang-leader manipulator... the guy literally jumped in his Nexus! We're not talking recruits the likes of DX, we're talking Bloods and Crips style jump-ins in the PG-era WWE!

Yeah, he totally wasnt leading a group before, and wasn't humiliating them.....


The Rock's feud with Austin lasted 3 months, and was a sidebar (albeit a pretty good one) feud to his overall feud with Triple H and Farooq. In fact, after that Austin feud, Rock didn't really encounter Austin again for quite a long time because of Triple H, Farooq, Ken Shamrock, and Mankind. Then, after that long-ass feud with Mankind, Rock finally got his chance to feud with Austin... I suggest you read an autobiography or watch a documentary sometime, Kaedon. You seem a bit rusty here.
Doesnt matter how long it lasted, it matters that IT MATTERED more than the world fucking championsip!! What do you remember more? Austin tossing the IC Belt into the river and the 3:16 page or the whiny "Im a moralistic heel" promos of Bret Hart?



Who doesn't agree with him about guys having to improve? All anyone is saying is that Miz doesn't have to improve as much as Kaedon is suggesting.

Apparently he doesn't need to improve at all. he's the rock, aint you heard? He's given everything for the business, more than anyone else ever has in the history of the business and deserves to be champion. hell. why don't we just induct him into the HOF now because he's clearly the greatest WWE Champion of all time.
 

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Yes, the fact that no matter where he goes, Cena gets the loudest response is a detriment. People pay to see Cena, people don't pay to see Miz, not yet.
Yet... >_>!


Riiiiiight, Edge, Punk, and Cena are not the draw that Miz is.
Where in that paragraph did I say that Miz is a draw? I said nobody is the draw that you're suggesting they are... there's not one person in the E outside of Taker who could sell out a show by themselves.




Yes, let's take Punk out because he's in a feud with Cena.....why? Why? He's the hottest heel in the company but nah, lets ignore him. And as far as me not listening to the crowd, the crowd gives Vickie, Cole and JOHN CENA more heat than the Miz gets just when he comes out. Just behind Jericho? Are you high? And how many fucking times do I have to list the 6 or 7 guys I'd give the title to over the Miz right now?
Again, we're talking RIGHT now. I don't know about you, but I highly prefer this Punk/Cena feud to not focus on the title, we might actually get a decent storyline surrounding something Cena has done (and as I said, it's time to give PPV ME's a break from Cena/Orton).

No, not high... Miz has been put amongst Jericho and Punk in terms of his reaction from promos since he broke away from Morrison.

And again, who else is there to list from Raw that I haven't listed besides Morrison, who Miz just defeated?


I forgot how much wins and losses matter.
Yeah, but a win over Triple H who never puts anyone over? And Shawn Michaels? And the two of them combined as DX?



I think I just vomited reading that you want to compare Miz to Benoit, a guy who was trained by the greatest compared to Miz who was trained by Al Snow, who, while good, is not a Hart. No, I'm not suggesting he forefit his MITB, I suggest the company not just blindly give people chances. You don't get a chance "just because it's your turn", you don't get a push to get over, you get over to get a push. He's not over enough to get a world title push.
So the fact that Stu Hart trained Benoit makes Benoit more deserving than anyone who wasn't trained by Stu Hart? If you're going to give Stu Hart that much clout, then why (in all the time they never had Bret hold the belt and even gave Owen a victory over him at WrestleMania) did they never put the Heavyweight strap on Owen? Why was the British Bulldog never crowned Heavyweight Champion? And I didn't compare The Miz to Benoit in any way - I asked if you're suggesting Benoit's route be the way Miz goes to get the title (as Benoit's case is the most prominent of waiting and putting in years amongst years against the top talent the world has to offer).

So you're against the Rumble as well, right? As we've established, both contests are equally as difficult to win (if MITB is not more difficult) anyways. The Rumble (kayfabe) offers the final 5 entrants the greatest opportunity to win, whereas in MITB, you're starting the match at the same time as 7 other superstars and you're adding weaponry to the contest, as well as the 15-feet falls, so honestly, winning MITB is far more respectable a feat than winning the bitch-ass Rumble.

And again, if Miz isn't over, I don't get who you believe is. We're talking Raw... nobody on Raw AT the moment is more deserving of the title than Miz. There might be talent on SmackDown who deserve a belt, but take that up with the SmackDown superstars like Edge (in the same boat as Orton and Cena), not The Miz.



mod·i·fi·ca·tion
noun \ˌmä-də-fə-ˈkā-shən\
Definition of MODIFICATION
3
a : the making of a limited change in something; also : the result of such a change
Now we're adding this to the list of terms... improvement, change, modification... got it... ring around the rosy...




Yeah, he totally wasnt leading a group before, and wasn't humiliating them.....
He wasn't being trusted to push the envelope like this... against the face of the company...


Doesnt matter how long it lasted, it matters that IT MATTERED more than the world fucking championsip!! What do you remember more? Austin tossing the IC Belt into the river and the 3:16 page or the whiny "Im a moralistic heel" promos of Bret Hart?
Considering Bret Hart at that time had a feud with Austin where Pillman was involved and a gun was fired in Pillman's home, I'll put it down to AUSTIN being the memorable one at the time. Rock even said himself that the Mankind feud was what established him in the company.
 

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Yet... >_>!
Very good, he's not now, therefore he shouldn't be champion, end of story.


Where in that paragraph did I say that Miz is a draw? I said nobody is the draw that you're suggesting they are... there's not one person in the E outside of Taker who could sell out a show by themselves.

You also said Miz is barely underneath anyone else in drawing power, which is a joke.



Again, we're talking RIGHT now. I don't know about you, but I highly prefer this Punk/Cena feud to not focus on the title, we might actually get a decent storyline surrounding something Cena has done (and as I said, it's time to give PPV ME's a break from Cena/Orton).

No, I don't. I want the two best guys in the company to fight over what they're there for, THE TITLE.


No, not high... Miz has been put amongst Jericho and Punk in terms of his reaction from promos since he broke away from Morrison.

yeah, by guys like you who ride his dick. By those of us who have ears, however, we can hear that the fans respond to Jericho and Punk louder.

Yeah, but a win over Triple H who never puts anyone over? And Shawn Michaels? And the two of them combined as DX?
Vladimir Kozlov and The Great Khali have beaten Taker numerous times, how over are they?


So the fact that Stu Hart trained Benoit makes Benoit more deserving than anyone who wasn't trained by Stu Hart?

Uh yeah, it's called being trained by the best. Its why, in the real world, when you have a resume of a guy from Harvard and the resume of a guy from Northeast Western Tech, you give the Harvard guy a second look. The numbers say he's smarter. Its why Randy Orton and The Rock, guys who, you know, grew up in the business are so successful, and jobbers off the street like the Miz aren't.


So you're against the Rumble as well, right? As we've established, both contests are equally as difficult to win (if MITB is not more difficult) anyways. The Rumble (kayfabe) offers the final 5 entrants the greatest opportunity to win, whereas in MITB, you're starting the match at the same time as 7 other superstars and you're adding weaponry to the contest, as well as the 15-feet falls, so honestly, winning MITB is far more respectable a feat than winning the bitch-ass Rumble.

You can have a guy win MITB or the Royal Rumble and not automatically give them the title.

And again, if Miz isn't over, I don't get who you believe is. We're talking Raw... nobody on Raw AT the moment is more deserving of the title than Miz. There might be talent on SmackDown who deserve a belt, but take that up with the SmackDown superstars like Edge (in the same boat as Orton and Cena), not The Miz.

Orton, Punk, and Cena are all more over and more experienced, therefore more deserving.



Now we're adding this to the list of terms... improvement, change, modification... got it... ring around the rosy...

You're the one who is saying there is a difference between "modification" and "change", the dictionary says they are one in the same.




He wasn't being trusted to push the envelope like this... against the face of the company...
So that makes the character completely different....


Considering Bret Hart at that time had a feud with Austin where Pillman was involved and a gun was fired in Pillman's home, I'll put it down to AUSTIN being the memorable one at the time. Rock even said himself that the Mankind feud was what established him in the company.

Yeah, no one cared about the Rock before then....
 

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So the WWE title on Raw should keep being swapped around by Cena, Orton and Punk because they're the only ones that are experienced enough and over enough to hold the title?
 

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For now, yes. Or you could bring someone over from SD since the brand extension thing means nothing.
 

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Who on Smackdown is over and experienced enough for you then? Edge, Show and Rey?
 

Kaedon

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how many fucking times do I have to answer this, yes, of those active, Show, Rey, Edge, and Kane, along with Cena, Punk, and Orton. Then after 6 months or a year, someone else should be ready. Then after 6 months or so, someone else should be ready, and so on and so on. If not, give it to a transitional champ, not some meatbag off the street who can barely draw flies.
 

seX-Power

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This is just my opinion but any of those guys not named CM Punk holding a top title for more than a month would just be horrible.
 
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I don't think he really knows what "draw" means. I think in general, it's as misguided a term amongst smarks as "carry" is. In the WWE, the only proven draws are John Cena, Undertaker and Rey. That's it. People can argue for Trips, but one can rebut that under his reign as the top guy from 02-05, numbers dropped 25%. And that's not really a fair criticism to make against him, despite the Hunter lovefest and talent burial that accrued under his watch, but his solo returns have never generated a noticeable and most importantly, prolonged spike in the ratings. And since the end of the attitude era, not a single star sans Cena and Misterio, with his Latino constituency, can lay down such a claim.

The days of having single stars like Hogans, Flairs, Austins and Rocks as meal ticket draws are over, they've been over for 8 years. The WWE markets itself as an entire company, and not as just one big ticket act and associated superstars. It's simplified it's marketing to brand itself as what the fans are paying to see instead of taking the potential risks of losing stars they branded, such as Hogan, Austin, Rock and Lesnar to other forms of entertainment and media. They've followed this model since the switch of the name, despite the losses of guys like Lesnar and Lashley. And their business has remained fairly consistent, especially since they are the only mainstream company that matters (not directed as a slap to TNA, it's just a matter of fact). The numbers have basically fluctuated between mid 3s and high twos for Raw between 03 and now. Numbers have been up with guys like HHH, Edge, Cena and Show gone and numbers have been down with all those guys on board. Does that mean that Trips shouldn't be on TV since the numbers are steady right now? That Edge should never have came back because they are basically where they are now thean without him? That Miz shouldn't be champion because he isn't something that really doesn't exist in the WWE business model? The E is in a transition period, what they are doing with the Miz is what you do. They are making stars. Not everyone is going to be an Austin in their first reign. Hunter and Rocky's first reigns were somewhat forced as well, and everything turned out fine for them.

We've seen it time and time again, the term ""draw" means very little now. Just look at TNA. Would you say that RVD, Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle, and Hulk Hogan are bigger draws? What the fuck are they drawing? The same 1.1 rate that TNA was drawing the five years before their arrivals? An average of 3-10k less PPV buys they were averaging at their peak? So by Kaedon's expplanation of drawing power, guys that he would insist were bigger draws in the WWE in their championship roles, guys like Angle, RVD, Hardy and the second biggest draw (Austin drew more, made more cash) of all time in Hogan and what have they drawn to TNA? NOTHING. So, in that sense the WWE's losses have been anything but gains for TNA. So, that being said, why again isn't the Miz fit to be champ and what are the risks associated with him being protected by the industry's biggest draw, the WWE name. And stuff it on the heatless argument, Miz gets heat.