Best Heels Of All Time

[Nerotheory]

Jake Roberts easily was the best heel ever. His promos were different and made you think about life. His delivery was flawless and creepy as hell to watch when little.

 

[We Are Legion]

Dear God, were you alive in 1987 when WM3 happened?

It sold so well because it was new. PPV was NEW AND because THE FACE of the 80's, Mr Hulk Hogan, was defending his title against the biggest challenger to date, his FORMER FRIEND, who turned on him and joined the Heenan Family. That Friend Betrayal shit was huge in the 80s and no one could milk an angle like One of the best heels of all time and WITHOUT A FUCKING DOUBT, the best Manager of All time, Bobby "The Brain" Heenan.

Andre passed the torch to Hogan that night, putting him over. Do you know he was billed as the only man to go undefeated his entire career to that point? He'd had a few countout or DQ victories but had legit NEVER been pinned or tapped out in a WWF ring. Ever. EVER. That was HUGE.

But it wasn't about him being a heel. That was Heenan's job as mouthpiece. The match fucking sold itself, especially since WWF had recently went nationwide in their TV.

When Andre won the WWF title with that Dave/Earl Hebner bullshit (The first of Heb's screwjobs, lol), he "sold' the title to Dibiase, who was, in my opinion, the best Heel not named Ric Flair I've ever seen work. Again, the Heat was Dibiase's, not Andre's.

Andre was a GREAT man for wrestling, but he's remembered for being an alcoholic, the first superheavyweight most anyone can remember in this modern era, and one of Heenan's goons. Oh and the Princess Bride lol

Congratulations for validating my point about Andre being one of Hogan's biggest adversaries, even though Andre didn't "pass the torch" to anyone that night. Hogan had been the biggest star in WWE for over 3 years before that match, so you're a little delusional about that. You even proclaimed Hogan as the "face of the 80's" in your first paragraph then said Andre "passed the torch to him" later which doesn't make sense. If anything, Iron Sheik carried the torch from Backlund to Hogan in 1985, that would be the most accurate way of putting it.

You're also delusional about Heenan. You really think most people that know of Andre Giant remember anything about Bobby Heenan? I'm not talking about current wrestling fans, I'm just talking about people who knew OF him considering he was a household name. Bobby Heenan never was and never will be a household name. Regardless of who Andre owes credit for his "heat" to, it still doesn't matter. Andre was a physical specimen that could have sold that ppv without anyone helping him get cheap heat considering he became that household name long before he turned heel. And that's all Heenan was. A cheap heat artist and an overrated one at that. Bully for him. And you said it yourself, Andre was unpinned (not undefeated) before that match, so Heenan was just the french fries for that match. Not even that, more like the salt packets that no one wants or uses. But they're nice if you like salt.

But I hope your self-serving trip down memory lane was beneficial to yourself because as hard as it appears you tried, you seriously didn't post anything I haven't heard a thousand times before.

29 btw, so yes. And I notice you're from DFW. Did you notice Andre the Giant's life-sized hand replica in the display case at Baylor Hospital? It seems you may have fallen off your bicycle a few times, so surely you've been there?

 

[Weez]

Congratulations for validating my point about Andre being one of Hogan's biggest adversaries, even though Andre didn't "pass the torch" to anyone that night. Hogan had been the biggest star in WWE for over 3 years before that match, so you're a little delusional about that. You even proclaimed Hogan as the "face of the 80's" in your first paragraph then said Andre "passed the torch to him" later which doesn't make sense. If anything, Iron Sheik carried the torch from Backlund to Hogan in 1985, that would be the most accurate way of putting it.

You're also delusional about Heenan. You really think most people that know of Andre Giant remember anything about Bobby Heenan? I'm not talking about current wrestling fans, I'm just talking about people who knew OF him considering he was a household name. Bobby Heenan never was and never will be a household name. Regardless of who Andre owes credit for his "heat" to, it still doesn't matter. Andre was a physical specimen that could have sold that ppv without anyone helping him get cheap heat considering he became that household name long before he turned heel. And that's all Heenan was. A cheap heat artist and an overrated one at that. Bully for him. And you said it yourself, Andre was unpinned (not undefeated) before that match, so Heenan was just the french fries for that match. Not even that, more like the salt packets that no one wants or uses. But they're nice if you like salt.

But I hope your self-serving trip down memory lane was beneficial to yourself because as hard as it appears you tried, you seriously didn't post anything I haven't heard a thousand times before.

29 btw, so yes. And I notice you're from DFW. Did you notice Andre the Giant's life-sized hand replica in the display case at Baylor Hospital? It seems you may have fallen off your bicycle a few times, so surely you've been there?

Wow. Where to begin. Oh, with an apology. I expect an infraction for this one, but the guy needs it. Apologies.

Let's do some math first. I'm 33 years old. I was born in 1979. When WrestleMania III took place, I was 7.5 years old. I watched it sometime later on Colliseum Home Video, as my parents wouldn't "Pay to watch something on TV? When we already have cable? That'll never work". As successful as it was, obviously quite a few parents did.

You, being 4 years my junior, would have been 3 to 4 years old. So no, you might as well not have been born. Something I'm sure your parents and every person who's read this thread has already realized. Congratulations on not remembering a fucking thing about mid to late 80s wrestling as it happened. Please, go back to Wikipedia and learn what you missed.

If you want to talk about how you remember "Smells like teen spirit" blowing up in 1991, when You, yourself, were 7 years old, I'm all ears.

Now, for those of us who DID have an 80's childhood they can remember, will remember that Hogan, while still the biggest thing in wrestling, had his former best friend, and a man that had "never been defeated" as his obstacle to Legendary status. Hogan was NOT a legend in 1987. It was obvious he was going to be, but a freak accident in the mid 80s and this guy would be a slightly more remembered Magnum T.A. He was a guy who'd been wrestling for a shorter amount of time than Most of the members of the Raw Roster have been today.

This is the match that MADE Hulk Hogan, and it was Andre who gave it to him. Hogan had the title, and had had it for 3 years at that point. He'd won the title, he'd had the fans. This was a match against an Icon in the business. This was what Cena/Rock SHOULD have been (and will be this year). This was Rock/Hogan, this was Hogan/Warrior. The Icon passes the torch and gives the rub to the CURRENT biggest thing in the business, and the immediate future of said business.

Did Warrior deserve it? Hell no? Did the Rock? Yes, considering we didn't know he was going to fucking leave for 7-8 years at that point. Does Cena? Yes, love it or hate it, he deserves the rub.

Backlund was a great champ, but he wasn't and isn't near the icon of the wrestling industry that Andre was. Andre is IMPORTANT in wrestling history. but Andre was nothing special as a heel. You call Heenan a "Cheap heat artist", yet you don't realize that Andre was a "Cheap Heat" heel?

Handicap matches, standing on people, using your size as intimidation, literally throwing your weight around. Anyone can do that. Some have done it better. Some imitated it and were worse. I'm looking at you, Yokozuna.

I'm not even going into defending Heenan. That's like saying Michael Jordan was a cheap basketball player because he scored points to carry his team to all those championships. Literally the most ignorant wrestling insight I have EVEr heard. Congratulations. New Monthly awards category?

Do I think people remember Heenan that know of Andre? Absolutely. Most people remember Andre's heel turn, and association with Heenan, and the buildup and feud with Hogan as his best work. Who stood next to him in ever single "Vintage" 80's Green screen promo? Who was his assigned mouthpiece to help him get the feud over (aka Manager, as that is their JOB)? Bobby "The Brain" Heenan. Hogan/Andre is one of the most influential feuds in the 80s, and in wrestling history in general. Without two good guys on the mic, it wouldn't have worked nearly as successfully. Andre was a lot of things, but a fluent, smooth talker on the mic? Not his strong suit.

 

[We Are Legion]

Wow. Where to begin. Oh, with an apology. I expect an infraction for this one, but the guy needs it. Apologies.

Let's do some math first. I'm 33 years old. I was born in 1979. When WrestleMania III took place, I was 7.5 years old. I watched it sometime later on Colliseum Home Video, as my parents wouldn't "Pay to watch something on TV? When we already have cable? That'll never work". As successful as it was, obviously quite a few parents did.

You, being 4 years my junior, would have been 3 to 4 years old. So no, you might as well not have been born. Something I'm sure your parents and every person who's read this thread has already realized. Congratulations on not remembering a fucking thing about mid to late 80s wrestling as it happened. Please, go back to Wikipedia and learn what you missed.

If you want to talk about how you remember "Smells like teen spirit" blowing up in 1991, when You, yourself, were 7 years old, I'm all ears.

Now, for those of us who DID have an 80's childhood they can remember, will remember that Hogan, while still the biggest thing in wrestling, had his former best friend, and a man that had "never been defeated" as his obstacle to Legendary status. Hogan was NOT a legend in 1987. It was obvious he was going to be, but a freak accident in the mid 80s and this guy would be a slightly more remembered Magnum T.A. He was a guy who'd been wrestling for a shorter amount of time than Most of the members of the Raw Roster have been today.

This is the match that MADE Hulk Hogan, and it was Andre who gave it to him. Hogan had the title, and had had it for 3 years at that point. He'd won the title, he'd had the fans. This was a match against an Icon in the business. This was what Cena/Rock SHOULD have been (and will be this year). This was Rock/Hogan, this was Hogan/Warrior. The Icon passes the torch and gives the rub to the CURRENT biggest thing in the business, and the immediate future of said business.

Did Warrior deserve it? Hell no? Did the Rock? Yes, considering we didn't know he was going to fucking leave for 7-8 years at that point. Does Cena? Yes, love it or hate it, he deserves the rub.

Backlund was a great champ, but he wasn't and isn't near the icon of the wrestling industry that Andre was. Andre is IMPORTANT in wrestling history. but Andre was nothing special as a heel. You call Heenan a "Cheap heat artist", yet you don't realize that Andre was a "Cheap Heat" heel?

Handicap matches, standing on people, using your size as intimidation, literally throwing your weight around. Anyone can do that. Some have done it better. Some imitated it and were worse. I'm looking at you, Yokozuna.

I'm not even going into defending Heenan. That's like saying Michael Jordan was a cheap basketball player because he scored points to carry his team to all those championships. Literally the most ignorant wrestling insight I have EVEr heard. Congratulations. New Monthly awards category?

Do I think people remember Heenan that know of Andre? Absolutely. Most people remember Andre's heel turn, and association with Heenan, and the buildup and feud with Hogan as his best work. Who stood next to him in ever single "Vintage" 80's Green screen promo? Who was his assigned mouthpiece to help him get the feud over (aka Manager, as that is their JOB)? Bobby "The Brain" Heenan. Hogan/Andre is one of the most influential feuds in the 80s, and in wrestling history in general. Without two good guys on the mic, it wouldn't have worked nearly as successfully. Andre was a lot of things, but a fluent, smooth talker on the mic? Not his strong suit.

Oh muh GAWD! You're a whopping 3 1/2 years older than me!!! That must automatically you're INFINITELY more knowledgeable of the 80's than I am considering you were 7 fucking years old when that match happened! Holy shit folks, we have a 7-year-old wrestling expert prodigy speaking from life experience! Get the fuck outta here with that condescending nonsense. Your "eyewitness testimonies" from the mid-late 80's aren't any more credible than mine. So quit pretending like you were there with adult-level awareness. What a joke.

You're bad at this "math" business you're preaching about too considering late 91 would have put me at 8 years old. Just pointing that out too so you realize you're not half as smart as you like to pretend you are.

But getting to your silly post... Andre/Hogan did not make Hogan. Was it the biggest match of his career up to that point? Most definitely. In fact, you could probably make the argument it was his biggest match ever. But to say Hulk Hogan would not have been Hulk Hogan without it is fucking asinine. Just like you compared it to Rock/Hogan and Cena/Rock insinuating Rock and Cena needed those matches to become icons themselves, as if it couldn't have happened any other way. Again... get the fuck out of here. They were both icons for half a decade before either one of those matches happened. Austin never needed a "passing of the torch'" from anyone and look where it got him. And don't even pretend like Shawn Michaels passed a torch to him at WMXIV because Shawn Michaels was never a Hogan or a Rock. But you know whose fame Michaels did rival? Bob Backlund's, the guy that came before Hogan.

I also LOVE how you alleged Magnum TA would have been a bigger star than Hogan if not for his accident. That's funny, because it's the same thing I remember hearing on the WCW documentary. Something tells me you don't remember this from experience either.

And yes you are... defending Bobby Heeenan. And I really don't care either, but you're still delusional if you think he was ever a household name like Andre the Giant. It's become an unwritten rule of the wrestling fan world due to his poor health over the years that if you love heels and talkers, you must regard Bobby Heenan highly, but sue me, I didn't and never will. Call the IWC police on me if you want, but he never made me hate anyone but himself because I just wanted him to shut up and go away. Even when I was listening to "Smell Like Teen Spirit" in 1991. He was a pretentious babbler who did nothing but talk completely out of his ass every time he had a modicum of opportunity to stir the pot, often without making any sense whatsoever, but since he had more hits than misses everyone likes to put him on a pedestal as some kind of "genius innovator". He wasn't. And comparing him to Michael Jordan is the most hilarious thing I've read all year, so congratulations on that too.

Anyways, I'll allow you to live in your fantasy world where you are the all-powerful wrestling knowledge grand dragon of the 1980's, just don't take yourself too seriously because your flexing is making me puke.

 

[Deezy]

Yes, because revisionist history makes your opinions more valid than anyone elses around here amiryt?

Yes, because revisionist history makes your opinions more valid than anyone elses around here amiryt?

 

[The Cork]

Guys, this is a good thread, and Ima let you finish, but Jake Roberts is the greatest heel of all time!

 

[Weez]

OMAGERD! You were EIGHT?

Man, thank you for correcting me. Next thing you'll tell me is there are 365 days in a year and people are TWO DIFFERENT AGES EVERY SINGLE CALENDAR YEAR. Man, if I'd have realized that, I might have just taken the biggest pop culture reference from that time period and used that as a catch-all.

....Oh wait...

To even argue that the differences in memory retention between a 7 year old and a 3 or 4 year old are insignificant is ignorant. Not going to even bother continuing that line of thought.

Adult-level awareness? lol. The 80's were about larger-than-life archetypal characters. BIG BAD RUSSIANS, and Slippery, cocky heels, Good guys that said their prayers, ate their vitamins, trained, and believed in themselves. These are moralistic stories, where the good guy wins in the end, gets the girl and the title, and good triumphs evil eventually. These are NOT adult themes. This are lessons to kids. So yes, I was 100% in the demographic they were aiming for and yes, I do remember my lessons from the 80s.

WM 3 Timeline:

Me and My friends:

"Oh my god. He just slammed Andre. LEGDROP! It's OVER! No way he gets up from that."

You and your mom:

"What color is that rope? *points* Red? Very Good!" What about that one? *points* Height? No, White. Can you say "White" Very good!"

That's the difference between a 7 year old and a 3 year old watching WrestleMania 3. That's not shit talk, that's truth.

Heenan was the "big bad guy" because we loved Andre. We believed that The Brain had manipulated him into turning on his best friend. Even if we didn't know the word "Manipulated" yet. Manipulation was something I probably DID learn from Bobby Heenan.

Also lrn2read. I never said Magnum TA would have been a bigger star than Hogan. That's stupid. I said that if Hogan would have had a career ending injury in the 80s, LIKE MAGNUM TA DID HAVE HAPPEN, ESPECIALLY before this WM 3 match, he wouldn't be the ICON and wrestling legend he is today. That is TRUTH.

I could care less what your viewpoint on this is. You continuing to personally attack people that disagree with you, because you believe what you've read is the truth and can't have a discussion where someone disagrees without talking shit is childish, and stupid.

If you can't backup your viewpoint with facts, don't bother. You're not going to outsmart me. You're not going to "own" me or whatever you're trying to do. You will only continue to make yourself look foolish. Have some pride and walk away.

Seriously, where is UC when you need it?

 

[We Are Legion]

Seriously, keep writing these walls of posts. I'm totally being convinced.

 

[This Guy]

You two both have made valid points. But in most of those points they are opinions that you both are calling facts. I'm 35. I have always believed that the "passing of the torch" is a line wrestlers use to put themselves over. I don't believe that Andre passed the torch to hogan but he did put him over. Much like when Lesnar beat The Rock for the undisputed title. This wasn't The Rock passing the torch to Brock Lesnar. This was The Rock putting him over for the betterment and advancement of the company's future.

Would Hogan still been the icon he is today had that match not happened? Probably yes but let's be honest that moment is continually referenced as a key to Hogan's "immortality". So without it hogan may have still been the biggest star and he may still have been referred to as a icon, but that match did instantly cement that status for him because of who it was against..... Andre the Giant.

Andre the Giant likewise was an icon. He was a household name. Could he have gotten over as a heel without Bobby Heenan? Absolutely. He simply stood against Hogan and that would be it. But the risk is Andre was probably just as popular as Hogan. So who is to say the fans boo him? Even to this day guys like Ziggler, CM Punk, etc all heels. All calling the fans idiots (which by the way is cheap heat) to get fans to boo them when they cut promos because a vocal minority can be heard cheering the bad guys. So without Heenan the WWE runs the risk of the fans turning on Hogan instead. So pair Andre with a note able heel manager as insurance that the fans side with the right guy.

Which brings me to Heenan. I agree that Heenan was a house hold name. In the 80's he was the most recognizable manager in all of wrestling. IMO. Did he use cheap tactics to get heat? I think so. But most heels did and still do. So to diminish his importance in the WWE in the 80's just because you didn't like the guy seems a little biased. I don't like John Cena but I understand why he is important to the current WWE product. And understand and tolerate the need for him to be booked in the position he's in. It's like the people who are upset about the rock beating punk. I don't like it either but I get it. It adds even more to the rock Cena rematch if rock not only puts Cena over this time but for the title as well makes an even more powerful statement. The real problem isn't that the rock beat punk for the title. The real problem is that rock was given a title match in the first place when he had only wrestled once in the last 8 years and is rewarded a title match based on his name.

 

[We Are Legion]

I never downplayed the relevance of Bobby Heenan in the 80's, I fully recognize he was their biggest manager. I just don't think he would amount to anything significant if he was stacked up against other managers that weren't god awful like most of the managers of that era were. He was definitely the cream of the crop at the time, but the rest of that crop was horseshit. Hence the reason I think he was a tad overrated. And I certainly didn't enjoy his commentary one bit. Give me Jesse Ventura, Gorilla Monsoon, old school Jerry Lawler, and of course the BOSS Jim Ross over him any day. Heenan was decent at it, but I just didn't think he was half as clever with his words as most people do.

 

[This Guy]

I never downplayed the relevance of Bobby Heenan in the 80's, I fully recognize he was their biggest manager. I just don't think he would amount to anything significant if he was stacked up against other managers that weren't god awful like most of the managers of that era were. He was definitely the cream of the crop at the time, but the rest of that crop was horseshit. Hence the reason I think he was a tad overrated. And I certainly didn't enjoy his commentary one bit. Give me Jesse Ventura, Gorilla Monsoon, old school Jerry Lawler, and of course the BOSS Jim Ross over him any day. Heenan was decent at it, but I just didn't think he was half as clever with his words as most people do.

Pretty much everything you said there I agree with. I don't think the other managers of his time were as bad as you obviously do. Jimmy Hart was another good manager of that era.

As for broadcasting I agree he was good at it, but the ones you mentioned are or we're better. I'll even take jbl over Heenan.

 

[We Are Legion]

YES. JBL was great. He actually made me laugh. With Heenan I was just like, "Oh shut up..."

 

[The New F'n Show]

I love me some JBL but Heenan is one of the 10 funniest men who have ever lived on this planet. His commentary was beyond amazing, so I can't find myself agreeing here and I think me and Legion usually are on similar pages.

 

[Keith]

Agreed and the thing is he brought the best out of Monsoon also.

 

[This Guy]

The one thing that always made me cringe with gorilla was when men on a mission were in a match and he'd always say "whoomp there it is" whenever they hit a big move.