Arizona Passes Law On Illegal Immigration

[Quintastic One]

I don't have the entire details or a news article in front of me, but this issue is pretty important right now in the united states and I think it at least needs to be thrown out here in Serious Discussion. If someone feels like adding more specifics feel free.

So apparently, Arizona has passed a new law that if you look like an illegal immigrant, local and state police have the right to pull you over, question you on your residency, possibly detain you and if there is reasonable doubt that you are an illegal immigrant, they eject you back across the border.

The big issue going around with this is that it's being said that it allows racial profiling against those of a certain race, particularly Mexicans. Alot of the states and congress itself are trying to implement some kind of boycott against Arizona that I'm not entirely sure what is about. Barack Obama has apparently also said that they will not support Arizona's law at the Federal level.

So what's your take on this? Do you have any additional information? Do you think it's racial profiling? Is it reasonable for the rest of the united states to put pressure on Arizona to repeal the law? I'm interested in your thoughts.

 

[nation]

Good. Illegal immigration is a major problem in this country and I'm glad something is being done about it in Arizona.

 

[Italian Outsider]

Offcourse Obama doesn't support this. The more Mexican enter the more his party will get votes on long term..

 

[The Small Show]

There are tons of illegal immigrants here in England. We are less than a week of a general election & the Liberal Democrats leader Nick Clegg is walking around telling us "Vote for me. After 10 years of being an illegal immigrant I want you to become a legal citizen by signing this!". Bullshit.

 

[gatesoftanhauser]

This is a step in the right direction, IMO. It's not perfect, and it seems like it's making one group of people out to be "profiled", but in the interest of fairness to other immigrants who've had to wait their turn, and who DON'T have the covenience and leisure to step over a fence (ex: Immigrants from around the world), it is only right to go after the problem instead of giving them amnesty and others none.

Besides, you know realistically there will be all kinds of constraints on how police ask people for ID when it comes to "reasonable doubt". The police and authorities aren't just going to walk into a mexican restaurant, draw guns and say "OKAY YOU GREASERS! ID'S ON THE TABLES AND HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM!" That won't happen.

Illegal is ILLEGAL. We've been tolerant for far too long and now the US workforce needs those low paying jobs back. There's plenty of desperate people out of work that need income.

 

[jerseyboybastard]

I'm apparently in the minority, but I find it completely unconstitutional.

What it sounds like is "If you aren't white, the cops can stop you regardless of what you're doing, question and possibly detain you if you don't have proof of residence."

While I'm on the fence concerning illegal immigration, this I stand firmly on.

It's a blatant contradiction to the 4th Amendment - "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Bottom line - just because someone looks or is non-white does NOT give law enforcement probable cause to search them. If someone is acting suspicious, okay, but that's applicable regardless of race.

And if you do search me and find out I'm a US citizen and I was not acting suspicious, I expect to be able to sue the state of AZ on the grounds of breaking the 4th Amendment.

This is a gigantic step back in terms of race relations.

 

[Quintastic One]

Constitutional rights would only apply to American citizens though. People who are here illegally wouldn't have that 4th amendment right of seizure and all that jazz.

Personally, I don't see how you could see this as anything but excusing racial profiling. But also, it's a necessary evil in my mind. Because up to this point ZERO has been done to stop the flood of illegal immigrants. It's been debated on for decades with nobody willing or able to have the balls to deal with the situation. Arizona has decided to do something about it, and they've become vilified as racist for trying to clean up this whole illegal immigration problem. It's a lose-lose situation. We either take a more active role in kicking these freeloaders out of our country or we allow them to have a field day with our money and government benefits that we can't even afford for our own citizens, let alone people here illegally.

 

[Jon Honcho]

I would like to clarify something here. If you are in any country illegal then you're NOT an immigrant. You are an alien, a fugitive, a transient, a vagabond, whatever you prefer. If you hopped a fence to use a leaf blower and you don't pay taxes, you're an alien. If you flew here from Romania with a work visa and it expired and you're still here, you're an ILLEGAL ALIEN!

 

[jerseyboybastard]

Constitutional rights would only apply to American citizens though. People who are here illegally wouldn't have that 4th amendment right of seizure and all that jazz.

Exactly, but how can the police determine prior to asking if a person they see is an American citizen or not? They can't.

To be honest, it's just an unnecessary addition to what's already a standard law across the country. I looked up the specifics of this AZ law and it says that law enforcement can only ask for US citizenship when they pull someone over for another reason (i.e. running a red light, something wrong with the car). Well.....what's the first thing police ask for regardless of race? License and registration. If a person doesn't have their license while driving, guess what? They're going to be arrested and/or detained. From there, if it's found out they're in this country illegally, the INS takes over on a federal level.

The whole "immigrant" clause doesn't need to be added. It's completely unnecessary.

What happens if 6 months from now, AZ quietly amends the law so that law enforcement doesn't need an additional reason to pull "immigrant" looking people over? It just feels like the first step down the wrong path.

On the issue of illegal immigration as a whole, though, I'm on the fence and can see both sides of the argument.

 

[★Chuck Zombie★]

Man, people only know how to look at one side of things. No one (or at least I or anyone I've talked to) opposing this law cares about how this law treats the immigrants. It's the legal citizens that are the ones we want to stick up for. Cops can just pull over someone that "looks like an illegal immigrant" (which we all know means Mexican) and ask them for an I.D. Now, I don't know about anyone else, but as a U.S. citizen I wouldn't want to be pulled over every time I go out just to have my I.D. checked. This could possibly lead to so many harassment lawsuits against the police and government and I don't blame any legal citizen that would feel harassed by this. When I was 16 and I had my first car I was pulled over A LOT for seemingly made up reasons because they thought I would have alcohol or drugs in the car. It pissed me off that I was being profiled that way when I was doing nothing wrong. No one else should be subjected to the consequences of someone else doing something wrong.

 

[Doomsday]

My opinion on the situation is that it is good because it is causing conflict. However on principle I am opposed to all such things. The world belongs to no nation but to humanity as a whole.
The universe will correct this flaw among many others all in due time.

 

[Jon Honcho]

^^^But if you're not doing anything wrong, what's the problem?

 

[Colin Gimp]

why does racial profiling matter if it's a catastrophic issue.

 

[Axis]

Cops can just pull over someone that "looks like an illegal immigrant" (which we all know means Mexican) and ask them for an I.D.

Untrue. A cop can ask for proof of immigration status if somebody is under "reasonable suspicion" (that is a term with very rooted history in constitutional law, and has been upheld by the Supreme Court) if they are already pulled over. That is so very important, and it's being glossed over.

So, no, a cop cannot pull one over because one "looks like an illegal immigrant" (and I question where you pulled this quote from, as it's not in the bill so far as I know). Rather, a cop can ask for your immigration papers if you have been pulled over for a speeding ticket and you can't speak English. And, as mandated by federal law, immigrants are required to carry their immigration papers with them at all time, so that is nothing new.

This bill is nothing radical. It simply gives state authorities the power to enforce federal law, because the federal government has failed miserably in enforcing their own law.