WS Christmas Mafia 2021

[Ekkologix]

funny thing is 2-0-1 or 2-1-0 the game does not end

but 1-1-1 the game ends

weird

 

[Ekkologix]

ive seen 1-1-1 where both the serial and mafia r basically outed and both of them r just begging the last townie to vote with them against the other

thats just a sad phase. it shudnt exist lol

 

[Smart Marx]

yea thats all fine. im up for different rules but generally when the rules are not standard, i much prefer they get posted in the first page so the players know the distinction

mafia scum/universe have pretty standard rules and they work different from these ones
the message is counted as visit and 1-1-1 is considered a win of the faction with the lower winrate. generally if the indie is non hostile, then mafia wins. if the indie is hostile then they win.

a phase thats 1-1-1 comes down to personal preference anyway. it often times end up with the player thats least popular or most annoying get lynched lol.

the bus driver/redirector etc rules of mafia scum are ones i would follow. they r good.

Man. You really don’t get that there’s no such thing as a universal standard.

Look at this op even. Haza would end a game in a tie. He doesn’t do the the smallest faction win order.

And trust me, I ACTUALLY do do the smallest faction win, personally.

Stalemates are not how I want to end a game.

Win Condition

wiki.mafiascum.net

Note: It has been noted that the win condition sometimes used for Scum groups, "You win when you match or outnumber the Pro-Town players", is not necessarily true when a Vigilante exists on the town's side. If the Mafia's night kill is somehow stopped (by a Doctor or a Role Blocker, for example), and the Vigilante kills one of them, then a 3-3 game that appears to be won for the Scum at Twilight could become a 3-2 ProTown advantage at Daybreak. Because of this, it is important as a Game Moderator to word your Win Conditions in such a way that all possibilities are accounted for, without including possibly-spurious situations you didn't intend to trigger a win.
One possibility that is fairly fool-proof is "You win when all other Factions are dead." This puts the decision of when the players have reached Endgame back in the hands of the Game Moderator, and lets the players worry about the actual play of the game. If it reaches a foregone conclusion with no possibility of alternate outcomes, then it can be ended early.
Unusual possibilities
When designing the game, the Moderator should always consider what will happen there is no obvious winner. For example if:
A position is reached where nobody can kill anybody else (for example, if the last two players alive are a Bulletproof Townie and a Mafia Goon).
Everyone is dead (this can happen in a game with multiple killing roles).
There is no "right" answer as to what happens in such situations - it is up to the Mod. These situations may result in a draw, or a win for a particular faction. But the Mod should anticipate such possibilities and define the player's win conditions accordingly. [For example, it is quite common for a Serial Killer to have the following win condition: "You win if everyone else is dead, even if you are not yourself alive."]

Parity and endgame is not stagnant. It’s not that black and white. Which is why a mod should have it listed in the opening post.

Like Haza said he allows draws.

 

[Smart Marx]

Message being sent to tpein would not have counted as a visit as it was specifically anonymous

THANK YOU.

 

[CraigPelton]

played all sorts of styles my friend and I'm sure it would be great but I'm pretty much retired lol.

aren't you like 18? You are retired from nothing

 

[Brandon Blaze]

I only had words if anyone bought ekko claiming Jeff flipped scum because God lmao.

Aside from that if people looked at what ekko was saying he really should have been lynched. He talked endlessly about a coal for no reason, lynched people off of it, and then in the end was blatantly trying to lie about Jeff's flip to make himself look good

If only he tried shooting me he be gone as I know TPein would go for him and then I knew when seeing him saying all that about Jeff’s flip I was ready to do the same.

 

[Smart Marx]

Haza gave me my favorite belated Christmas present.

 

[Showtime]

if a mafia/hostile indie made it to 1-1-1 they deserve to win, thats their logic and it makes sense

They really don't deserve to win until their win condition is met. mu and mafia scum have a lot of sore losers, which is ironic coming from here, but you gotta go the whole distance. If you put yourself into a situation where it's 1/1/1 then that's your own bad as whatever alignment you are.

 

[Showtime]

aren't you like 18? You are retired from nothing

If I'm 18 then you're 22.

Instead I'm turning 28 and you're turning 32.

Cp and I are such good friends we remember each others bdays

 

[Ekkologix]

Because again the host is the intermediary.

Like if a watcher watched a mason, would you consider them talking to each other a visit? I wouldn’t.

Like I said it can go either way. I’m not even arguing it can’t go the way you do, just the host can decide.

masons are different tho, its like a mafia chat
its not a visit because they r directly interacting in another chat. its like they live in the same house

a visit is someone going from another house to yours to give you the message

its fine to go eitherway. i just hope hosts mention it in rules

 

[Ekkologix]

Man. You really don’t get that there’s no such thing as a universal standard.

Look at this op even. Haza would end a game in a tie. He doesn’t do the the smallest faction win order.

And trust me, I ACTUALLY do do the smallest faction win, personally.

Stalemates are not how I want to end a game.

Win Condition

wiki.mafiascum.net

Parity and endgame is not stagnant. It’s not that black and white. Which is why a mod should have it listed in the opening post.

Like Haza said he allows draws.

thats a different scenario that what we r talking about tho smark
we r discussing a 1-1-1 end game
a 3-3 could or could not be mafia win depending on the roles town has and depending on whether we are entering the night or entering the day

a day with 1-1-1 is the most controversial end game lol. some hosts let the players duke it out and lynch the least popular/most annoying player, and other hosts just automatically give the win to the role with lower wincon. i am the 2nd type, u r the first. both r acceptable, as long as u make sure u document it somewhere in the rules maybe to avoid confusions.

i personally feel like a 1-1-1 duke is very unfair cuz the town player gets to decide if the serial or mafia wins and thats lame

 

[Ekkologix]

They really don't deserve to win until their win condition is met. mu and mafia scum have a lot of sore losers, which is ironic coming from here, but you gotta go the whole distance. If you put yourself into a situation where it's 1/1/1 then that's your own bad as whatever alignment you are.

its debatable
often times its not under your control to be in 1-1-1
like yeah u could argue abstaining or shooting enemy faction or w.e but its not always an available option

i was in a 3-2-1 game. town lynched mafia then serial and last mafia killed a towny each at night which ended in 1-1-1. at that point serial and mafia just basically begged town to vote with them and tried to sell why they played better and deserve the win

it was disgusting phase tbh. thats not how mafia is played

1-1-1 shud be avoided most of the time by ending the game right there since its no longer mafia. if the indie is hostile, he wins. if indie is non hostile, mafia wins (he wins too if survivor)

2-0-1 and 2-1-0 are perfectly fine though

 

[Smart Marx]

thats a different scenario that what we r talking about tho smark
we r discussing a 1-1-1 end game
a 3-3 could or could not be mafia win depending on the roles town has and depending on whether we are entering the night or entering the day

a day with 1-1-1 is the most controversial end game lol. some hosts let the players duke it out and lynch the least popular/most annoying player, and other hosts just automatically give the win to the role with lower wincon. i am the 2nd type, u r the first. both r acceptable, as long as u make sure u document it somewhere in the rules maybe to avoid confusions.

i personally feel like a 1-1-1 duke is very unfair cuz the town player gets to decide if the serial or mafia wins and thats lame

It’s completely up to the win cons and how they’re written. And it may be lame, but I’ve seen it many times.

Specifically with serial killers I’ve seen that endgame way more than with survivors.

The way I see it is if you can be lynched without a vote from your own faction the game can continue.

In fact if we’re talking about serial killers specifically I’ve never seen a host that ended the game when day could start at 1-1-1 with town, SK and mafia.

 

[Smart Marx]

thats a different scenario that what we r talking about tho smark
we r discussing a 1-1-1 end game
a 3-3 could or could not be mafia win depending on the roles town has and depending on whether we are entering the night or entering the day

a day with 1-1-1 is the most controversial end game lol. some hosts let the players duke it out and lynch the least popular/most annoying player, and other hosts just automatically give the win to the role with lower wincon. i am the 2nd type, u r the first. both r acceptable, as long as u make sure u document it somewhere in the rules maybe to avoid confusions.

i personally feel like a 1-1-1 duke is very unfair cuz the town player gets to decide if the serial or mafia wins and thats lame

But, I agree. Put as much as possible as you can into the op is preferred. I generally put the win cons on it.

 

[Smart Marx]

It’s completely up to the win cons and how they’re written. And it may be lame, but I’ve seen it many times.

Specifically with serial killers I’ve seen that endgame way more than with survivors.

The way I see it is if you can be lynched without a vote from your own faction the game can continue.

In fact if we’re talking about serial killers specifically I’ve never seen a host that ended the game when day could start at 1-1-1 with town, SK and mafia.

Wait, you actually said both are acceptable so I think we’re just going around and around now.

Anyways, congratulations on your win.

SK wins are rare around here.