WrestlingSmarks Ethics, Morals, and Philosophy Debate Club

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Grimoire Lenin

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I have a different thought experiment to bring up but I'm not gonna share it here, it belongs in the creepy Wikipedia thread.
 

Grimoire Lenin

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The Prisoner's Dilemma

You and your criminal accomplice are arrested and detained. Each prisoner is placed in solitary confinement with no means of relaying information between one another. The police admit they don't have enough to convict either of you with the greater charge. Instead, they plan to sentence both of you to a lesser charge with lower prison time.

However, you are informed that you can make a deal to avoid any jail time, if you opt to testify against your friend, he will get the maximum sentence, whilst you will walk free. A very good deal, no? The police then reveal that the same offer has been made to your accomplice. The conditions are set as follows:

1. If you and your accomplice remain silent and protect each other, you both will receive minimum time.

2. If you rat on your partner and he remains silent, your partner will face the maximum sentence, and you will go free.

3. If you remain silent, but your partner rats you out, you will face the maximum sentence, and your partner will be free.

4. If both of you rat each other out, you and your accomplice will both receive a moderate sentence.

To help visualize the problem, allow me to design a table for everyone:

Prisoner A \ Prisoner BPrisoner B Stays SilentPrisoner B Testifies
Prisoner A Stays SilentEach serves 5 yearsPrisoner A: 20 Years
Prisoner B: Goes Free
Prisoner A TestifiesPrisoner A: Goes Free
Prisoner B: 20 Years
Each serves 10 years

The simple question is what would you, Prisoner A, choose to do, fulling knowing that you are entirely unaware of what your partner will chooser to do.
 

Comrade Khan

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snitches get stitches. i aint saying shit
 

Chris

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Lol they actually do this on the show The Mole. It's two teams split up from the group at the start of the day. They have to pick a leader to negotiate and then both are told the situation where both have to say no to get half the money, etc. So obviously both leaders are told to lie and say they won't take the money but then take it, but then their internal debate is if they believe the other actually won't take it. Watching people actually debate this in real life for actual stakes is crazy
 
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Grimoire Lenin

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Pascal's Wager


If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is....

..."God is, or He is not." But to which side shall we incline? Reason can decide nothing here. There is infinite chaos that separated us. A game is being played at the extremity of this infinite distance where heads or tails will turn up. What will you wager? According to reason, you can do neither the one thing nor the other; according to reason, you can defend neither of the propositions.

Do not, then, reprove for error those who have made a choice; for you know nothing about it. "No, but I blame them for having made, not this choice, but a choice; for again both he who chooses heads and he who chooses tails are equally at fault, they are both in the wrong. The true course is not to wager at all."

Yes; but you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us see. Since you must choose, let us see which interests you least. You have two things to lose, the true and the good; and two things to stake, your reason and your will, your knowledge and your happiness; and your nature has two things to shun, error and misery. Your reason is no more shocked in choosing one rather than the other since you must of necessity choose. This is one point settled. But your happiness? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.

"That is very fine. Yes, I must wager; but I may perhaps wager too much." Let us see. Since there is an equal risk of gain and of loss, if you had only to gain two lives, instead of one, you might still wager. But if there were three lives to gain, you would have to play (since you are under the necessity of playing), and you would be imprudent, when you are forced to play, not to change your life to gain three at a game where there is an equal risk of loss and gain. But there is an eternity of life and happiness. And this being so, if there were an infinity of chances, of which one only would be for you, you would still be right in wagering one to win two, and you would act stupidly, being obliged to play, by refusing to stake one life against three at a game in which out of an infinity of chances there is one for you if there were an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain. But there is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite.

To make it easier for folks who might find Blaise Pascal's dialogue a bit tough to swallow:

There is a supposition that either God does or does not exist; it's either a 50/50 chance that he does or does not. Upon the question of whether or not belief in God means spending the afterlife in heaven or not, there are four scenarios that can happen:

1. If one believes that God exists, and God *does* exist, then the believer will see infinite gain in the afterlife.
2. If one believes that God exists and God *doesn't* exist, then the believer dies, and nothing happens.
3. If one does not believe in God, and God does not exist, then nothing happens to the unbeliever after he dies.
4. If one does not believe in God, and God *does* exist, then the unbeliever will see infinite loss in the afterlife.

Therefore, it is reasonable that one must believe in God because there is no downside to believing in him. Either nothing happens, or one goes to Heaven. Not believing in God has the non-zero chance that one does not go to heaven, and therefore is not optimal.


It basically was Pascal's argument for why one should believe in God in the event that one's belief is an existential gamble. While I don't necessarily agree with Pascal here, he at least makes an interesting argument for it.
 

Grimoire Lenin

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Saw this funny meme and thought I'd share it in here

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