Will Cenas heel turn make as big of an impact as Hogans did?

[Airfixx]

The biggest heel turn SINCE Hogan, but no not as monumental.... IMO it'll totally overshadow SCSA turning in 2001 (even though I loved paranoid loony, heel Austin).

 

[Nation]

What will you do about it?

Probably stop watching RAW. I've managed to stop wrestling for over a year in the past and with wrestling as bad as it is now I can definitely stop watching.

 

[straight_edge76]

SCSA turning in 2001 (even though I loved paranoid loony, heel Austin).

That was honestly one of the last times I ever was totally suprised by something th the WWF/E.

 

[xFrenchKissx]

I don't think the fact that Cena was a heel already will change the fact that no matter how inevidable it is we will all be suprised by a Cena turn, which I honestly am looking forward to seeing. But imo the two biggest turns in my lifetime have been Hogan and Austin at WM17. Cena if/when it happens there must be a face that can in a sense take over as the #1 face of the WWE. The WWE is already has a large number of top heels but not to many faces. Thus, I do not see it happening for another year or two when maybe a guy gets established as THAT face to take over where Cena left off.

I think I would be more surprised if they never turn him heel, than if they did. And it seems to be a huge point all around that it isn't really possible to turn Cena heel, until there is a legitimate superstar on hand to fill the hole Cena leaves as the main face. Who was the face of the company BEFORE Cena came along? Is it realistic to expect someone to immediately step in and fill Cenas shoes? When I first saw Cena in the WWE, I never would have expected that he would achieve what he has, in the capacity of ultimate face. It developed that way, and that is what is going to have to happen again.

I don't think it would make as much of an impact. Hogan was a HUGE face for a long time and no one thought he would ever turn heel. He was THE WWF hero and a heel turn was one of the biggest surprises.

I also think a part of that was due to the fact the the term 'wrestling entertainment' hadn't come into play yet. They were still trying to pull off the "This is real!" stuff. I think that may have had a hand in why it was such a huge unexpected event.

I really don't think Cena will ever be as big and important as Hogan. He actually gets quite a lot of boos (though on TV, it seems like he gets 100% cheers) and people look at Hogan as a big figure in the wrestling world because he was a part of the wrestling boom. Cena doesn't do anything amazing and it wouldn't be a big deal if he went heel.

Do you think that it is because wrestling has already BEEN insanely popular, and that Hogan has already done the monster face that turned his back on everybody, that makes you less impressed with it? Really, if Hogan had not been the face he was, and if his turn hadn't been the huge deal that it was back then, I think that more people would be excited about the whole Cena heel turn. So, because everybody KNOWS what the result was with Hogans turn, I think a lot of them have unrealistic expectations regarding what may happen with Cenas. I don't know that his turn will have as big of an impact on the business, since it has already been done.

A lot of factors to think about with something like this...

As someone already said, there's spoilers/internet rumors to worry about today so that immediately takes some of the shock value off of it.
The writing in general is also pretty awful lately so unless they severely step up their game, it may not be that epic.

Which plays into what I said about 'sports entertainment.' Nobody was looking for the swerves, or knew about heel and face turns back then. I think the fact we are all so clued in to the workings of the business now, it ruins a lot of the things about it for us.

With those things said, it's obvious Cena is the biggest face we've had since the likes of The Rock and Austin. Both of which had heel turns of their own, however they were a little more expected. The Rock was by all accounts kind of an asshole regardless of whether he was heel or face, same goes for Austin. This is of course why everyone compares Cena's eventual heel turn to that of Hogan, the all American goody goody loved by almost everyone face.

I don't know if I think Rock or Austin were actually amazing faces, as that they were so insanely over with the fans that it wouldn't have mattered WHAT they did, the fans were going to like it. Hogan got major heat and legitimate hate when he made his turn. People still loved Rock and Austin regardless what role they were in.

I think one of the main factors that will play into Cena's heel turn is how long they wait to do it. Take for example Batista's recent turn. It's what everyone wanted and was essentially done for the sole purpose that it needed to be done. He became so incredibly stale in his old role that they had no choice. If they wait to do the same with Cena then of course it's not going to have a huge impact, it's simply going to receive the "OH FINALLY!" response from most people.

I think it is still going to work that way. Everyone is expecting it. If they had NOT waited until Batista was so stale, I would have been more interested in it. But because they clung to not changing for so long, I really don't give a shit and it is going to take something amazing to be done for me to even bother working up the desire to give a damn about anything he does. I think if they would have turned Cena at the pinnacle of his career it would have created much more of a boom and maybe stirred more peoples interest. If they keep putting it off, the more money they may make NOW, but in the long run I don't think they could capitalize as much as if they turned him now, then had him turn back to face again.

Where, I don't think the turn will have as huge of an impact as Hogan's did (let's face it, Cena is nowhere near as big of a star as Hogan) it's still going to be really entertaining to watch. I seriously don't want them to film whatever is going on in the ring, just shots of the children's crushed faces in the crowd.

Do you think the fact that we all know the whole thing is a work diminishes the effect a lot of the story lines have? I'm on the fence about that. Because when everyone thought it was a real life case of good guys vs bad guys, it made everything they did more dramatic. But on the other hand, by the time the Attitude Era came around everybody knew it for what it was, and it is arguably the most popular and exciting time period ever.

Not gonna lie, when Hogan turned back in the day I shed a tear or two.

I was in awe of the NWO when it happened. I still remember how excited I was when all that shit was going down.

there is a few things to factor in with a cena he'll turn. if he turns his back on his fans, the kids, they need anothr john cena to cheer for to go up against cena. plus who knows, what if the kids are so mad and betrayed that they don't want to watch anymore? I say give it 5 more years let this generation of kids grow up and say 'i grew up a john cena fan' and then they are about teenager age, turn him heel, make sure you have another hero in line the kids will cheer for and people will pay money to see that guy kick cena's ass cuz he turned on the fans. turning cena heel has a lot things involved to factor in.

Somebody mentioned somewhere else that there is always going to be another generation of kids first experiencing the wrestling craze. That is one of the reasons I believe they haven't turned Cena already. He is the epitome of what the kids love when they first get into wrestling. Kind of like baiting the hook for future fans. And worrying about how people going to react, and playing things safe is the reason we have such a stale product right now. The WWE doesn't take risks anymore, they find something that works and cling to it until it is long dead, and only then do they show a little initiative. But I agree that until they have someone lined up to go up against Cena, someone capable of being a legitimate threat to what the kids have been led to believe is their superman, it won't work. They see in Cena the ultimate good guy, which would automatically in their minds make him even worse as a villain.

I will not put up with 5 more years of Superman John Cena. I can't even imagine him getting staler. Also no it won't have as big of an impact because Cena already gets quite a bit of heat. Hogan easily had the majority of cheers but Cena on the other hand not so much.

Hahaha. Never say you can't imagine how things can get worse. It is always possible.

And I don't think what Cena gets can actually be considered 'heat.' But I think that when he does make the turn, all of the love he gets now is going to be amazing to see. Nothing creates as much legitimate hate as love gone wrong. And a LOT of people LOVE Cena.

unfortunately John Cena is percieved by the wwe and this generations Hulk Hogan so they wont turn him heel for a while, and with pg era in full force they dont want to lose their kid audience.

I don't know so much as that it is the rating that makes the product bad. Before the Attitude Era the envelope wasn't pushed as far and there was still interesting things going on. Only when the WWE captured an older audience, did they begin to kick things up to that point.

The problem with him turning heel is people still watch wrestling somewhat. When Hogan turned heel, no one was watching wrestling. His heel turn made people wanna check out wrestling again, where as Cena turning heel would just be to make the smarks happy, which in case no one has noticed, WWE don't give two shits about.

I think a lot of what garnered fan interest was the fact that they actually came out of the closet and said "No, this isn't real. This is entertainment and we are putting on a show." Then they were free to go all out to entertain us without having to stay within the guidelines and making things realistic.

Maybe, and I know I'm shooting for the moon here, but if TNA ever was able to compete with WWE, then a Cena heel turn would be great for business. But like others have said in this thread, turning him now would turn the kids away that spend all there parents hard earned money on Cena.

You think that TNA and WWE could make a go off another version of the Monday Night Wars?

The biggest heel turn SINCE Hogan, but no not as monumental.... IMO it'll totally overshadow SCSA turning in 2001 (even though I loved paranoid loony, heel Austin).

It will overshadow Austin because Austin always was somewhat of a dick. Him making a heel turn usually consisted of him getting fed up with taking orders from someone. We always knew that the Austin character was a loose cannon and basically a kick ass character with a leash.

Probably stop watching RAW. I've managed to stop wrestling for over a year in the past and with wrestling as bad as it is now I can definitely stop watching.

Nobody likes a quitter, bro.

 

[Great One]

I still think Cena shoulda turned at WM 25, pussy WWE. It woulda been epic. Vickie said whoever wins wins her heart, and you would assume just Edge/Show are in it for that. Vickie is like to Vince for what Austin needed to turn. Cena shoulda won via Vickie kicking Edge in the balls or something and Cena FU's and wins. Then grabs the title and starts making out with Vickie (tongue and all) to end the show. Gold.

 

[xFrenchKissx]

I still think Cena shoulda turned at WM 25, pussy WWE. It woulda been epic. Vickie said whoever wins wins her heart, and you would assume just Edge/Show are in it for that. Vickie is like to Vince for what Austin needed to turn. Cena shoulda won via Vickie kicking Edge in the balls or something and Cena FU's and wins. Then grabs the title and starts making out with Vickie (tongue and all) to end the show. Gold.

Hahaha. Anything could have happened to make that show better, because i don't think it could have been any worse. As bad as it was last year, I'm wary of watching it this year. If the 25th Anniversary of their biggest show sucked that much ass, what can this one offer? And despite all that, I know I am still going to watch it.

As far as Cena turning heel then, it would have been awesome.

But eww, bro. Tonguing Vickie Guerrero. Fail.

 

[Great One]

We were just talking how dedicated to his job he was. So he would do it without question, because it's probably the only thing and the only person who can legitimately get him over as a heel. Plus Edge did it, so Cena would have to make it look even better. Possibly bang her on live TV (live sex show?). The possibilities...

 

[straight_edge76]

We were just talking how dedicated to his job he was. So he would do it without question, because it's probably the only thing and the only person who can legitimately get him over as a heel.

Agreed ^

Honestly, thinking back on it a turn for Cena @ WM25 would have been a pretty epic move. I think that if he does turn it will be at a Wrestlemania. This year, which will most likely be Cena W/ Bret VS Tista W/ Vince could have also been a good chance to turn Cena as well, it's just to damn bad that the vast majority of fans don't give two shits about Hart anymore.

 

[xFrenchKissx]

We were just talking how dedicated to his job he was. So he would do it without question, because it's probably the only thing and the only person who can legitimately get him over as a heel. Plus Edge did it, so Cena would have to make it look even better. Possibly bang her on live TV (live sex show?). The possibilities...

Edge and Lita?

Seems like Edge has beaten Cena to the punch on a lot of those things. Then again, it could backfire and people will say it took 'superman' powers just to be able to stand tall in the face of that monstrosity. He'd be a hero to fat annoying chicks everywhere!

And sick, bro. Nobody wants to see Vickies' face while in the throws of mating season.

Thanks though, you gave me a thread idea.

 

[Great One]

Surprised Vickie wasn't mentioned once here.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

The condensed answer is: Cena will have to be as important as Hogan was, and he isn't, so no.

 

[Double J]

I also think a part of that was due to the fact the the term 'wrestling entertainment' hadn't come into play yet. They were still trying to pull off the "This is real!" stuff. I think that may have had a hand in why it was such a huge unexpected event.


Which plays into what I said about 'sports entertainment.' Nobody was looking for the swerves, or knew about heel and face turns back then. I think the fact we are all so clued in to the workings of the business now, it ruins a lot of the things about it for us.

Do you think the fact that we all know the whole thing is a work diminishes the effect a lot of the story lines have? I'm on the fence about that. Because when everyone thought it was a real life case of good guys vs bad guys, it made everything they did more dramatic. But on the other hand, by the time the Attitude Era came around everybody knew it for what it was, and it is arguably the most popular and exciting time period ever.

I agree, but also think it's just that we're older period. Even though they bill it as entertainment, there are still alot of little kids who still think it's real. For me though, I really can't think of any thing recent that really caught me off guard. Hell, I don't know why but even when Kurt Angle showed up at TNA, I just wasn't surprised.

But I remember when Billy Gunn turned on 'his brother' Bart, I was in shock and pissed as hell at Sunny for causing it. And when Tatanka sold out to the Million Dollar Man, I remember throwing my Tatanka toy across the room..

Now that I think about it, what the hell was it with me and cowboys and indians....

I don't know if I think Rock or Austin were actually amazing faces, as that they were so insanely over with the fans that it wouldn't have mattered WHAT they did, the fans were going to like it. Hogan got major heat and legitimate hate when he made his turn. People still loved Rock and Austin regardless what role they were in.

Really I think the time of "Pure Faces" and "Pure Heels" in the main event scene died with the Attitude era. No one else really "pure" anymore in the main event. You got guys like Triple H and HBK, they both could turn heel and people would still for them. Hell Randy Orton was trying to kill people and he still got (and gets) cheered. Cena is the top face in wrestling today period, but if you go to a live event, at least 25-50% of the audience is booing him.

It all comes down to the fact that people know what wrestling is now, the older fans know that Cena isn't as great a wrestler as WWE makes him out to be so older fans hate him. Now I think he will be a pure heel if/when he turns just because you'll have the original haters still booing win so he'll get his ass kicked and you'll have Cena's fans who cheered and actually believed in him booing him too.

In the attitude era the top faces were more like tweeners. They were against the "bad guys" but didn't follow rules, drank, cussed, ect,ect, and people loved it.

In the era before that you had Hogan and Macho Man and Bret Hart, where 98-99% of the fans loved them and on the other side you had Mr. Perfect and Million Dollar Man who 100% of the fans hated. Didn't matter that Mr. Perfect was by far a better wrestler than Hogan, it's was his gimmick that made him a heel.

Now the only time you really see this is in the lower card or Mid-card scene. Alot of them are good wrestlers, some better than main eventers, but a majority of the midcarders are on the same wrestling level, so most people go off their gimmicks on if they hate or love them.

I still think Cena shoulda turned at WM 25...grabs the title and starts making out with Vickie (tongue and all) to end the show. Gold.

...so Cena would have to make it look even better. Possibly bang her on live TV (live sex show?). The possibilities...

Thanks man, now I have something to talk to my therapist about this week....

 

[kimball99]

Originally posted by xFrenchKissX
You think that TNA and WWE could make a go off another version of the Monday Night Wars?

I think it's possible. All the elements of how wrestling was a bore from 92-96 are pretty much in place now. WWE is back to doing what they did back in the day and are feeding us a shit product. TNA is giving us low quality, dumb as fuck programming a la WCW from the mid 90's.

I, like so many others have doubted TNA since day one. And for the first time ever, at least with myself anyway, I'm begining to think TNA isn't going anywhere. Now, I'm not totally convinced TNA can compete, but then again most people thought WCW would never rise up side by side with WWE.

 

[maty619]

I have watched the odd 2 or 3 episodes of Impact in te past few weeks and I got bored after about 15-30 minutes because of their dumb ass story lines, who wants to see 2 old WWE superstars trying to get into the 'Imapct Zone' and about half of their roster is made up of washed up WWE superstars. So, I don't think we can see a repeat of the Monday Night Wars.

 

[aceofspades7778]

The only reason Hogan turned heel in WCW was because he was in a new company and it was a smart decision to show a different side of Hogan in a new company. its not like the WWE turned Hogan Heel