Which Was More Significant to the WWF: Austin/Bret or Austin/Vince

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Veritas

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First some backstory here - This topic was from an organized debate another user and I competed in on my old forum. I chose Austin/Vince and the following was my opening debate. I'd like YOUR opinions on this topic now. Which was more significant to the WWF - Austin/Bret or Austin/Vince? I can provide a link to the entire debate if anyone is interested as long as the Mod's don't see it as advertising or anything.

Now on with the show.


Beginning in 1998, the WWF saw an incredible boom period known as the Attitude Era. There were a number of contributing factors between 1996 and 1998 that can be counted as minor sparks to big bang that finally came in 1998 but one thing that cannot be denied is that the boom itself was carried largely on the backs of "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and Vince McMahon.
In the aftermath of the Montreal Screwjob which went down in November of 1997, Vince McMahon became a regular on-screen character in the WWF, transitioning from the play-by-play commentator he'd been known as for 20-years to the evil corporate boss that millions of wrestling fans worldwide could relate to. It's rarely ever mentioned but Vince's "Bret screwed Bret" speech was the beginning of a year long angle that saw McMahon searching for a man who'd play ball, his "Corporate Champion." Although the angle ended at Survivor Series '98 with The Rock emerging as the Crown Jewel, the entire basis of the Austin/Vince saga is rooted in the "Corporate Champion" angle.

When Steve Austin won the Royal Rumble and was on an obvious collision course with the WWF Championship, the common man began to rally behind Austin, who was still growing into his beer swiggin', middle finger flashing, redneck everyman character. Fans could relate to Austin and, because of this connection, people who'd never watched wrestling in their lives were tuning in en masse to record breaking numbers. Austin's drive to overcome everything Vince McMahon - the boss, THE MAN - was throwing at him was like a page out of every man's life, from the common construction worker to the white collar executive. Steve Austin being forced to defend his rightful WrestleMania title shot through various twists and swerves was like an overdramatized version of the labor crew being forced to work overtime on a Friday to make the foreman look good or the office worker being buried under his department head's paperwork while his boss is partying on the town. These people were tuning in because they got to see Austin do the one thing they couldn't - retaliate.

It was when Austin overcame the obstacles and won the Federation Championship at WrestleMania XIV that the Attitude Era was truly ushered in. With Austin and McMahon building most of the heat and drama with fans, stars like Mick Foley, The Rock, and Triple H were able to be quickly elevated into the main event picture. In a business where new stars break into the main event very slowly, Austin led the pack as a new generation started drawing money not seen since the height of Hulkamania. Another rarely credited star truly made during this time was Mr. McMahon himself.

The Austin/McMahon angle was a massive success. With nuances and interactions dating as far back as the summer of 1997, this angle got really hot in January 1998 and was the dominant storyline on WWF television until July 1999. The angle was dormant while Austin recovered from a neck surgery but became a main focus again immediately upon his return. The fued would continue until WrestleMania 17 in 2001 when ultimately sided with the man who'd made his life hell for years, Mr. McMahon - poetically defeating The Rock to boot.

In the end the angle drew millions upon millions of dollars dollars, attracted many new fans to the product, and was 1/2 of the most exciting war in wrestling history. The angle is still talked about today and is still felt over a decade after it began. Fans still use Austin/McMahon and the Attitude Era as the measuring stick of "good wrestling TV" and Mr. McMahon, 12 years after his original character introduction, is now playing the role of the evil corporate billionaire - a minor step up from his former role of an evil corporate millionaire.
 
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I'll be the minority in saying this, but Austin/Bret.

The reason I say that is because for the first time in wrestling (or at least that I'm aware of..?) you had an evolution in Kayfabe. You had a guy, who acted like a heel, yet, was finally put over as a result of this match and was solidified as a face because his pop could not be ignored. Austin more or less changed the business. Before him (again, from what I can remember) there was no "tweener". It was Faces being "vanilla" and Heels being heels. Good vs Bad, no variation.

There would be no Randy Orton or Edge if it weren't for Austin. I don't mean it in a literal sense, I mean character wise.
 

Montana

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This one is tricky. There wouldn't have been a Austin vs. Vince if it wasn't for Bret Hart vs. Austin. Bret Hart vs. Austin was one of my favorite all time WWE fueds. For the reasons gate mentioned, and the incredible build up, and how well Bret/Austin worked off of each other. Perfect booking, and it climaxed with 5 star match at WM.

On the other hand, you probably have the biggest fued in wrestling history, or the most popular or intense. Vince/Austin. JR even said the WWE would never be able to duplicate that fued.

But to answer the question which was more significant...I'd have to say Austin/Mcmahon. The WWE might have been dead in the water if not for this. The ratings, and the company wasn't really doing all that great during the Hart/Austin timeframe. Just the jump in momentum is why i would say Austin/Mcmahon.
 

CMS

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Austin vs Vince, hands down.

Sure, without Bret vs Austin the whole Austin vs Vince feud wouldnt have happened, but I see it as part of the building of Austin character. The same could be said for the 3:16 promo, the HBK vs Austin program, etc. Sure, the Bret vs Austin program gave us evolution in kayfabe, a double turn, our first heelish face, but all of that would have gone to waste without the perfect foil to the character, who was Vince.
 
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Austin/McMahon was the highest drawing feud EVER. It's not even debatable what meant more to the WWE, if the question was what meant more to Steve Austin, then there's some legs to stand on. But a feud that sparked a billion dollar jump in revenue and the hottest time in the industry's business is going to win everytime.
 

McFly...

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Austin/ Bret. Their match at WM started the rise of Austins popularity. Austin/Vince only strengthened it.
 

straight_edge76

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I'm going with Austin/Vince also. Dont get me wrong, I love the Bret/Austin feud. It did put Austin over as a top guy, but you could debate that there are other guys that could have done that for him also. But, like Enzo said it turned the WWE from a struggling company (in 1997 they were extremely close to going under from what I've heard) to a billion dollar empire within 2 years. Bret/Austin was awesome, and made for two of my all time favorite matches at Survivor Series 96 and WM 13, but Austin/McMahon overshadowed that entire feud imo. Especially when you factored in other guys like Rocky and Taker.
 

McFly...

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But without Austins popularity, Austin/Vince wouldn't of drew as much.
 

pumpt73

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Im with CMS, Enzo, and Sraight Edge fellas. Hear me out. I will never deny the importance of Bret vs. Austin. The Wrestlemania 13 match is what solidified Austin's stature in the company no doubt. BUT, if anyone watched WWF religiously back then, you could tell Austin was going to be huge, and it was only going to be a matter of time. From when he first came in as The Ringmaster, I was excited because I really liked his work in NWA/WCW. The guy was the wrestler you loved to hate. I didn't get to see his ECW work because we didn't get much ECW in Detroit. But you could just see the guy standing out among whoever he was up against. His character was taking off even before the 3:16 speech at KOTR. I can remember calling my friends jackasses before 3:16 happened.

When he met Bret at WM 13, it solidified him. Bret was perfect to do it, but again, it was only a matter of time before he was going to be champion. That brings us to Austin vs. Vince. Man what can you say. Austin was the blue collar working man's wrestler, and every blue collar working man wants to flip their boss off, give him a stunner, and just generally tell him to eff off. What can you say but GOLD!!! Anytime Vince screwed him over, oh boy the backlash (pardon the pun) was huge. It gave Vince even more heat and the fans wanted to see Austin destroy Vince even more!!! Man there's literally thousands of classic Austin/Vince moments. My two personal favorites are the toy gun with the "BANG" roll out banner, and when Vince is in the hospital and Austin says, "oh I'll take it from here nurse" and cracks him in the head with a bedpan!!!!!!!!! The look on Vince is priceless. While Bret solidified and made Austin, Vince cemented his legacy and his Hall of Fame status.
 

CMS

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Besides...Enzo said it best, this is about what feud was more important to WWE, not to the figure of Austin itself. While the Austin vs Bret might have created Austin, WWE, the company, got more benefit from Austin vs Vince
 

straight_edge76

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Also, you could argue that Austin could have been put over by somebody that wasn't Bret. It may have been the feud that really triggered Bret's heel turn as well as Austin's rise to the top of the WWE, and was and still is one of my favorite feuds. BUT Austin could have easily been put over by someone else, maybe an HBK or Taker and could have had the same effect.