What IF Undertaker does not main event WM13 and NOT win the WWE Champion in 1997?

[Meshuggah]

Gohan...I already pointed out the Cena thing, I am talking about loyalty to the business. I already said it's not even right to compare the two, but you get my point. Michaels is not as loyal, he threatened to jump or quit when he didn't get his way. HHH is not as loyal, he is just there because he knocked up Vince's daughter so he gets a lot of benefits with the WWE. Punk is not as loyal, because punk will leave within a flip of a dime if he wanted to, it's already been shown.

But Cena has loyalty within the business, he puts over people just fine, he goes to every WWE event, including autograph signings and charity work, and he doesn't tell WWE to give him shots or he'll leave, he just doesn't turn them down when they offer it to him(would you?), he's up there with loyal people like Taker, but I agree, you can't compare the two, because Cena has been given a lot more chances, not because he begged for them, just because he sells merchandise and they want to keep him happy is all, i'm sure he would be just as happy without a title.

Look at Hogan, he got A LOT out of the WWE, and what did he do? Went to WCW. Look at Flair, he got a whole damn party for him when he left, and what does he do? He returns, but in TNA. I'll admit, theres a tiny list of truly loyal people to the WWE, and Cena is on there. Along with Big Show and Taker. Has The Rock gotten a lot out of the WWE? Hell yeah, and what does he do? He makes crappy disney movies, and returns only if it benefits him, like throwing him a big birthday bash, or offering him a run with the title which he doesn't deserve anymore, the guy is barely there. It's guys who put their lives into this business, no matter what, who are the most loyal. Yeah, Cena got a lot of chances, it's not his fault, blame the WWE, not him. Cena can balance hollywood with WWE, and guess what? He always shows up to WWE a hell of a lot more than he does in any hollywood films, why? Because he doesn't want to be a hollywood movie star, he wants to be a WWE superstar.

I know the streak was not his thing back then, because he was still new to WWE, but what does that say about your comment? Taker is defined by his streak, and his persona, no one can touch him on that. Not to mention, of course, his loyalty to the business, so what would not winning a title or not being in the main event do to his career? Nothing, it would have done nothing, he would have beat whoever he had at WM and moved on, and defeated the next guy at WM, rinse and repeat.

You didn't say Tazz said that, you said he said that winning the gold makes you the best, and if you don't got it, then get out. You never said, be the best at what you do, because Taker is the best at what he does, he is the only person who can successfully pull off that gimmick, and he is the only person with an undefeated WM streak for, what, 20+ years straight? Gold means nothing when you have something like that under your belt, and it shows when he enters the arena and gets the feedback from the crowd that he gets.

 

[Goku]

Gohan...I already pointed out the Cena thing, I am talking about loyalty to the business. I already said it's not even right to compare the two, but you get my point. Michaels is not as loyal, he threatened to jump or quit when he didn't get his way. HHH is not as loyal, he is just there because he knocked up Vince's daughter so he gets a lot of benefits with the WWE. Punk is not as loyal, because punk will leave within a flip of a dime if he wanted to, it's already been shown.

But Cena has loyalty within the business, he puts over people just fine, he goes to every WWE event, including autograph signings and charity work, and he doesn't tell WWE to give him shots or he'll leave, he just doesn't turn them down when they offer it to him(would you?), he's up there with loyal people like Taker, but I agree, you can't compare the two, because Cena has been given a lot more chances, not because he begged for them, just because he sells merchandise and they want to keep him happy is all, i'm sure he would be just as happy without a title.

Look at Hogan, he got A LOT out of the WWE, and what did he do? Went to WCW. Look at Flair, he got a whole damn party for him when he left, and what does he do? He returns, but in TNA. I'll admit, theres a tiny list of truly loyal people to the WWE, and Cena is on there. Along with Big Show and Taker. Has The Rock gotten a lot out of the WWE? Hell yeah, and what does he do? He makes crappy disney movies, and returns only if it benefits him, like throwing him a big birthday bash, or offering him a run with the title which he doesn't deserve anymore, the guy is barely there. It's guys who put their lives into this business, no matter what, who are the most loyal. Yeah, Cena got a lot of chances, it's not his fault, blame the WWE, not him. Cena can balance hollywood with WWE, and guess what? He always shows up to WWE a hell of a lot more than he does in any hollywood films, why? Because he doesn't want to be a hollywood movie star, he wants to be a WWE superstar.

I know the streak was not his thing back then, because he was still new to WWE, but what does that say about your comment? Taker is defined by his streak, and his persona, no one can touch him on that. Not to mention, of course, his loyalty to the business, so what would not winning a title or not being in the main event do to his career? Nothing, it would have done nothing, he would have beat whoever he had at WM and moved on, and defeated the next guy at WM, rinse and repeat.

You didn't say Tazz said that, you said he said that winning the gold makes you the best, and if you don't got it, then get out. You never said, be the best at what you do, because Taker is the best at what he does, he is the only person who can successfully pull off that gimmick, and he is the only person with an undefeated WM streak for, what, 20+ years straight? Gold means nothing when you have something like that under your belt, and it shows when he enters the arena and gets the feedback from the crowd that he gets.

Ok Cena is loyalty b/c of all the gold he getting! THAT IF FACT! If it was not then tell me this why is he not putting anyone else over!? If what u said about Taker not being main event is true then Cena should now that the new guy should be born! Right? Yet Cena sit on his ass kiss ROYAL FEET and keep being the main event and win the wwe title all the FUCKIN TIME! So yes it HARD FOR CENA NOT TO BE LOYALTY TO WWE! B/c he already get his GOD DAM WAY! As for Cm punk leave again it all come to the guy treat correctly! Even as a 434 days WWE Champion he hardyly main event a ppv WHICH BOLD SHIT! Even with the gold CM Punk 2nd to Cena which prove that Cena does get a fuck! If he truthly like u said he does he would have win up to vine and said hay vince let that guy main event he the WWE Champion he need more then i do right now! BUT NO CENA DOES NOT SAID SHIT!

 

[Stopspot]

Gohan. There is no proof that Cena is only loyal to the WWE because he gets title runs. Cena has gone long stints without belts before. Cena is loyal to the company that made him because he knows they made him who he is. He knows that without the WWE behind him he would not have the kind of pull and impact he has had.

Honestly. If you want to look for a guy who only stayed because he got the way he wanted or the gold. Look at Punk. The only reason Punk stayed with the WWE when his contract expired was because he got a title run and perks wasn't it? I have a hard time seeing Punk being as loyal to the company as Cena is. Punk has said it himself, he burns bridges.

Cena is where he is today because he has the entire package. He is serviceable in the ring, he can get the crowd invested in whatever he is doing (be it positive or negative), he can talk with the best of them, he has charisma and not to mention a work ethic like no one else in the business. There is no one in the WWE that works as hard as he does for the company, both on show and with its public image. He is also a guy that the company could see that they could build around.

Punk would not be able to do the media and other stuff Cena does because he is a punk. Punk is a subculture for a reason, it caters to a minority. CM Punk caters to that sub culture and he is proud of being its spokesperson. But he doesn't have the same kind of mainstream appeal that Cena has. He has some of it but nowhere near what is needed to carry the company on his shoulders. No disrespect to Punk.

It is just like with music, Punk is never going to be mainstream or a main attraction other than within its own subculture.

 

[Goku]

Gohan. There is no proof that Cena is only loyal to the WWE because he gets title runs. Cena has gone long stints without belts before. Cena is loyal to the company that made him because he knows they made him who he is. He knows that without the WWE behind him he would not have the kind of pull and impact he has had.

Honestly. If you want to look for a guy who only stayed because he got the way he wanted or the gold. Look at Punk. The only reason Punk stayed with the WWE when his contract expired was because he got a title run and perks wasn't it? I have a hard time seeing Punk being as loyal to the company as Cena is. Punk has said it himself, he burns bridges.

1: again that b/c he still MAIN EVENT PPV! Even though eh was not the wwe champion he was main event over CM Punk a the WWE Champion match! So yes there ur prove right there! He only loyal b/c he can get title run and main event even though he not the champion! Punk desavre the fans knew it it and everyone in the back knew. And yet still even with the wwe champion he STILL DOES NOT MAIN EVENT ALL TIME! WHAT HELL DOES GUY HALF TO DO TO BE THE MAIN EVENT!? RUN CENA OVER WITH A CAR!? Like HHH had to do to Stone Cold!? ipebomb:

 

[Stopspot]

1: again that b/c he still MAIN EVENT PPV! Even though eh was not the wwe champion he was main event over CM Punk a the WWE Champion match! So yes there ur prove right there! He only loyal b/c he can get title run and main event even though he not the champion! Punk desavre the fans knew it it and everyone in the back knew. And yet still even with the wwe champion he STILL DOES NOT MAIN EVENT ALL TIME! WHAT HELL DOES GUY HALF TO DO TO BE THE MAIN EVENT!? RUN CENA OVER WITH A CAR!? Like HHH had to do to Stone Cold!? ipebomb:

That's not really proof though. Cena gets rewarded for being loyal yes. But that doesn't mean that he demands it. He doesn't go up to Vince and say "reward me and I'll be loyal to you". Instead management says "this guy is pretty loyal, let's reward him". And I understand why. The guy who works the hardest and has the best results should be the man featured. And Cena is that guy, he draws the most and works the hardest. Thus he is rightfully rewarded. As long as Cena can work at his current schedule and have the kind of mainstream appeal that he has noe one else on the roster will be able to take that away from him. Punk cannot, Bryan cannot, Triple H cannot. Cena is the full package. We don't have to like it, but we have to accept it.

Cena obviously loves the WWE. I can guarantee you that even if Cena was only used on the mid card in favor for some younger guy taking his spot he would still stay with the WWE and work just as hard. It's the kind of guy he is. He wouldn't go somewhere else. Punk would, he said it in his shoot, he would have gone to New Japan or Ring of Honor. Cena in the same situation would say "okay, give me something to do, anything at all" and he would gladly do it because that is how he is wired.

 

[Goku]

That's not really proof though. Cena gets rewarded for being loyal yes. But that doesn't mean that he demands it. He doesn't go up to Vince and say "reward me and I'll be loyal to you". Instead management says "this guy is pretty loyal, let's reward him". And I understand why. The guy who works the hardest and has the best results should be the man featured. And Cena is that guy, he draws the most and works the hardest. Thus he is rightfully rewarded. As long as Cena can work at his current schedule and have the kind of mainstream appeal that he has noe one else on the roster will be able to take that away from him. Punk cannot, Bryan cannot, Triple H cannot. Cena is the full package. We don't have to like it, but we have to accept it.

Cena obviously loves the WWE. I can guarantee you that even if Cena was only used on the mid card in favor for some younger guy taking his spot he would still stay with the WWE and work just as hard. It's the kind of guy he is. He wouldn't go somewhere else. Punk would, he said it in his shoot, he would have gone to New Japan or Ring of Honor. Cena in the same situation would say "okay, give me something to do, anything at all" and he would gladly do it because that is how he is wired.

OH HELL NO! Cena could gong up to vince and said haY Cm punk the WWE Champion let have him Main Event! BUT HE DID NOT SO NO! HE NOT LOYAL AT ALL!

 

[Stopspot]

OH HELL NO! Cena could gong up to vince and said haY Cm punk the WWE Champion let have him Main Event! BUT HE DID NOT SO NO! HE NOT LOYAL AT ALL!

That is not the definition of loyalty. Loyalty is to the company as a whole. Cena is loyal to the WWE and all it does. His position on the card has nothing to do with him being loyal to Vince and the company or not. Cena's position on the card is a reflection of his position as the top dog. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the man who makes you the most money is the man you feature at the top. Punk whilst making good money for the WWE doesn't make nearly enough as Cena. Punk should instead be commended for being loyal to the company by not throwing a fit once he became champ and still was kept in the co-main event.

There is no shame in being the guy who is in the segment before Cena's. That means that you are the second or third biggest guy in the company. But as long as Cena makes the most money for the WWE, works the hardest for them and is the most charismatic and mainstream media friendly he is going to be the guy used as the flagship.

Punk works well as the number 2 guy. He is the Macho Man to Cena's Hogan. Or the Rock/HHH to Cena's Stone Cold (I'm not saying that Cena's character is like Stone Cold, they have the same role in the company as the man who puts asses in seats).

 

[Lockard 23]

Even though Cena is the main money maker, when they put the title on another guy entirely, they should at least feature him in the main event over Cena to give off the impression he IS the top guy of the company at that given time, thus being the world champion. Cena wasn't in the main event matches of Wrestlemania 24-26 either, despite being the top guy then, too.

 

[Meshuggah]

Okay, well, can't wait until Raw tonight, that's for sure, anyone else?

Back on topic, let's see...

Well, everything's basically been said already :