Vince thinks ratings are declining because they're building new talent and no Brock Lesnar

[Showstopper]

That doesn't seem very fair to Cena. He's put over lots of guys since he started winding down his career. Bryan, Styles, Reigns, Balor, Rollins and even Fiend at Mania just a month ago. True, there was never that "passing of the torch" moment. Bryan beating him at SummerSlam 2013 was probably the closest thing to that. But, I doubt that was his call. Nonetheless, I don't think it would make too much difference in the grand scheme of things. We've had Rock endorse Reigns, we've had Rollins conquering Lesnar, we've had every legend you can think of try to crown Becky Lynch... ultimately I don't think it matters what cosigns wrestlers get from the old guard, the product just isn't exciting enough to keep people's attention. Especially when you're talking about the weekly shows, there is hardly ever anything that makes you feel like you don't want to miss next week's show. Or for people who aren't watching, there isn't anything going on that is going to make them regret missing the show. Bottom line is you're really not missing much when you skip the weekly shows. People can try to say all this shit about the Attitude Era being overrated, or not aging well, or whatever but you can't deny that they gave you a reason to tune in week after week.

In Cena's case, he became FOTC in 2005. He didn't even start to lose a match until SummerSlam 2013 against Bryan. That's alittle bit over 8 years of the same guy mowing down the roster. And this is coming off of the era in which fans were used to watching guys like Austin and Rock entertain them every week. And right after that, you go to a goody-two-shoes John Cena on top for years on end. It's not like it was even rapper John Cena. To go from Austin/Rock to the corny version of Cena, fans weren't going to stick around for that.

And the first interesting opponents that came long for him was Nexus in 2010, and as Jericho and Edge have said, Cena buried them at SummerSlam, too, and it was very much the wrong decision. In alot of ways, it was an awful era, especially coming off an era where fans enjoyed the product so much. It was a big part of the reason I stopped watching for a few years. A few big creative decisions that went the other direction could've made the top of the card much more interesting, but it was just the same old John Cena for years and years and years. And by the time that era ended, the ratings were considerably lower than they were when they started that era. It's more on Vince than anyone else, but woof.

 

[Pat]

In Cena's case, he became FOTC in 2005. He didn't even start to lose a match until SummerSlam 2013 against Bryan. That's alittle bit over 8 years of the same guy mowing down the roster. And this is coming off of the era in which fans were used to watching guys like Austin and Rock entertain them every week. And right after that, you go to a goody-two-shoes John Cena on top for years on end. It's not like it was even rapper John Cena. To go from Austin/Rock to the corny version of Cena, fans weren't going to stick around for that.

And the first interesting opponents that came long for him was Nexus in 2010, and as Jericho and Edge have said, Cena buried them at SummerSlam, too, and it was very much the wrong decision. In alot of ways, it was an awful era, especially coming off an era where fans enjoyed the product so much. It was a big part of the reason I stopped watching for a few years. A few big creative decisions that went the other direction could've made the top of the card much more interesting, but it was just the same old John Cena for years and years and years. And by the time that era ended, the ratings were considerably lower than they were when they started that era. It's more on Vince than anyone else, but woof.

I don’t disagree with you, but there’s been more of an acute ratings drop since coronavirus started, and I think that’s what Vince is more trying to refer to.

It makes sense. People expect to see KO, Lesnar, Styles, Orton when they tune into Raw. That’s not happening any more. That’s why I could see why ratings are down.

 

[Chris]

I don’t disagree with you, but there’s been more of an acute ratings drop since coronavirus started, and I think that’s what Vince is more trying to refer to.

It makes sense. People expect to see KO, Lesnar, Styles, Orton when they tune into Raw. That’s not happening any more. That’s why I could see why ratings are down.

But how does this reasonable point push the Vince has gone crazy and everything he says doesn't make sense point?

 

[Showstopper]

I don’t disagree with you, but there’s been more of an acute ratings drop since coronavirus started, and I think that’s what Vince is more trying to refer to.

It makes sense. People expect to see KO, Lesnar, Styles, Orton when they tune into Raw. That’s not happening any more. That’s why I could see why ratings are down.

There's been a drop, but there was even a drop before the virus. The ratings this year were already down. Also, check the past several years. They've been going down every single for years now. This was the lowest rated Road to WM ever and that was with all of those guys you mentioned. Cat is right with what she said above. Every year they ask Vince about the rating drops (because it literally happens every single year) and every year, Vince has some kind of excuse that never acknowledges that the product itself isn't drawing. This is every year now.

 

[Chris]

He also said in the article it takes time to build up new people to get the ratings up, sounds like he knows what he needs to do for a senile old man

Also ain't his fault that nostalgia is the only thing that sells anymore and thats why every popular movie is a remake, sequel, prequel, etc. Rasslin' has relied on nostalgia much worse than other though and thank God that seems to finally be less of a draw so maybe Vince won't rely on it as much

 

[Showstopper]

Building up new people to increase ratings sounds good, but again, the ratings have been decreasing since 2000. That's 20 years! And the guys in the company on top now have been around in the company for awhile now, not that I blame them. You don't even have to go back to 2000 to 2010 (when it stared), just check this past decade. Hell, in 2015, they were going 3.5-4.0 million. It's 5 years later, and they're in the 2 million range, and recently alot of 1.8's and 1.9's.

People really have faith in this guy, who on top of all of that, is 75 years old in a business that is about the 18-35 demo before all else?

 

[Showstopper]

And don't get me wrong, WWE is the only company I really watch these days. I'd love nothing more then for their ratings to not only improve, but skyrocket. But it's just hard to see. Obviously hope I'm wrong, though.

 

[Chris]

Its not so much that I have faith in Vince to fix it as I don't blame him fully for the problem in the first place like you seem to. Partly yes, I don't think he's an out of touch old man that doesn't know shit though

 

[Showstopper]

Only reason I blame him is because apparently he has the final say on everything. The buck stops with him, then that seems to implicate him in everything GOOD and bad with the company. WWE is my favorite wrestling company and it's been that way for 30 years now since I was a child. I want their ratings to skyrocket. I just don't know if that's realistic or not, but I want it to happen.

 

[Chris]

Only reason I blame him is because apparently he has the final say on everything. The buck stops with him, then that seems to implicate him in everything GOOD and bad with the company. WWE is my favorite wrestling company and it's been that way for 30 years now since I was a child. I want their ratings to skyrocket. I just don't know if that's realistic or not, but I want it to happen.

Thats fair, most people only give Vince credit for one or the other not both good and bad and that always annoys me

 

[Showstopper]

Thats fair, most people only give Vince credit for one or the other not both good and bad and that always annoys me

Yeah, that is dumb. It can't just be one or the other. It has to be both.

 

[Benoit's Weight Machine]

He also said in the article it takes time to build up new people to get the ratings up, sounds like he knows what he needs to do for a senile old man

Also ain't his fault that nostalgia is the only thing that sells anymore and thats why every popular movie is a remake, sequel, prequel, etc. Rasslin' has relied on nostalgia much worse than other though and thank God that seems to finally be less of a draw so maybe Vince won't rely on it as much

There's a reason why nostalgia draws in this business. Perhaps Vince should take note of what worked during both of his boom periods.

WWF was on fire in the 80s. They drew 93k people to the Silverdome which filled McMahon with so much hubris, he then proceeded to fundamentally change the WWF to suit his vision. The company stopped recognizing its history, they started gearing the product towards children, they started calling their wrestlers "WWF Superstars", Hulk Hogan was no longer the heavyweight champion of the world, he was now "world wrestling federation champion". The booking formula drastically changed with the main idea being a bunch of roided up monsters being fed to Hogan which was run into the ground in short order as ratings slowly declined.

These changes caused that boom period to taper off until we were all blessed with the attitude era. In a departure from his usual way of doing business (and to his credit), McMahon just went with the flow and kept doing more of which worked. This culminated in the company becoming so hot that it actually went public which instilled even more hubris into McMahon. He decided that he was ashamed of "wrestling" and he was now "entertainment". Instead of traditional wrestling bookers, creative was to be handled by a team of former sitcom writers. Instead of a live wrestling program, he deluded himself into being "episodic television". When the company no longer knows what it is, how are they supposed to coherently get anything across to the audience?

Another problem with all this hubris is that Austin, Rock and Lesnar all leaving around the same time, it was decreed that no one can be bigger than the brand itself. Someone is now a star because Vince says so, not because they are over with the crowd. Cena and Roman are perfect examples of this. Things may work like this in "episodic television" but no matter what Vince's shame may tell himself and others, this is actually professional wrestling and things do not work that way.

So as far as "nostalgia" yes, the fans are nostalgic for better times, specifically the time periods of 1984-1992 and 1997-2001. These time periods are when Vince kept his hubris in check and the quality of the product was reflected accordingly.

 

[Showstopper]

Pretty sure Raw just did it's worse rating ever, including holiday shows:

1.817 million viewers.
Hour one drew 1.945 million.
Hour two drew 1.888 million,
Hour three drew 1.619 million viewers

I feel terrible for Drew.

 

[Chris]

I've also made my point on ratings clear a lot but if any of you don't already know: I give ZERO fucks about them for the most part and I think it's weird when people use ratings to justify their fandom or dislike for someone bc like yeah bro that's what a general opinion on them is...but what's yours?

But like Showstopper has said in this thread, I do care about them from the general sense that yeah I want them to be good and for wrestling as a whole to succeed in popular culture. I'm gonna watch whether it does or doesn't and like who I like whether they draw or not, but yeah I'd 100% like ratings to go up. But for the most part ratings talk bores me because it's not my job to think about what would help WWE as a company, I just watch and decide if I like what they're doing or not on a surface level and stop thinking about what they should do unless I think it was a very obvious decision and I REALLY hated the alternative, but most of the time I'm cool with what actually happened as well.

 

[Dale]

It is hilarious when people bring it up to try and discredit one of your favourites