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Uhmmmmm ... what the fuck does that have to do with entertainers vs athletes?
Wrestlers get ripped, and they know there's no way around it. I don't think there will be for a long time.
'The Wrestler' Director wants wrestlers included in the SAG
- Thread starter monkeystyle
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Uhmmmmm ... what the fuck does that have to do with entertainers vs athletes?
Wrestlers get ripped, and they know there's no way around it. I don't think there will be for a long time.
The decision to be a wrestler is a dumbass one if 1. Your body is not equipped to handle it, and 2. If you choose to abuse your body with drugs.
Your argument is that the government should get involved here because wrestlers getting a union and guaranteed health benifits is "keeping the citizens safe and healthy." That same logic can be applied to banning any substance that the government deems "bad for you". If they can say "Vince you HAVE TO GIVE WRESTLERS INSURANCE" they can also say "CIGARETTES AND BEER ARE OUTLAWED" because afterall they just want us to be "healthy" and "safe."
It is not the WWE's job to shepherd every move their CONTRACTEES do. If you take a job as a private contractor, which is what they are, no company is required to do anything but fullfill the obligations of said contract. If you sign up to build a house, and youre brought in as a contractor, as say "Joe and Joe Electricians", and you get shocked while doing the electric for this new house, should the people who are paying you to do this set aside extra money for your insurance? Fuck no. You use the money they are already paying you to pay your own insurance.
So in other words the WWE are knowingly bringing in superstars who are not prepared for the job, and their bodies are not equipped to handle it? Superstars have to go through the Indy's or another rigorous activity, be trained in FCW in order to prove they can cut the mustard, and THEN be brought up to be a fully active wwe superstar. That whole process is USED for weeding out those who arn't in shape. The problem isn't the wrestlers conditions, its the nature of the business itself, and they need to be protected. Bottom line.
And my argument also has nothing to do with beer or cigarettes, those are personal choices that a person makes that drain their wallet and is NOT a service, its a good. There's a difference between outlawing a substance to prevent people from making stupid decisions and protecting individuals who are trying to MAKE A LIVING and are providing a service to millions of people watching them. Your failing to see that an object and a person are two completely different issues of law and morales.
Your failing to realize another important part of my argument. A house contractor does not file for insurance through the people who needs their house fixed up. They go through a different company, ala SAG for wrestlers would be set up through that system of insurance and protection so that said house contractor/wwe couldn't abuse their employees. The problem is that WWE would fire their wrestlers if they tried to start a union to protect themselves. Would you fire your house contractor because they were apart of a contractors union that would help them when they got hurt working for you? Once again, two totally different industries, two totally different sets of liabilities for the job.
Then why is it than everyone but these x number of wrestlers 60 or so that have died since the 1980s, why are they the only ones who couldnt hack it, abused drugs and alcohol and ended up dying as opposed to the HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS who are still living, healthy, and still working? If the problem is "the business itself" why isnt everyone dropping left and right? Its because its NOT THE BUSINESS its the people who get into it. No one forces these guys to take pain killers or get loaded and drive down the highway or get into the ring. The WWE is not injecting them with steroids. They are making a personal choice, and its not the WWEs place to babysit these guys.
You arent getting it. The idea, the theory that "Well the government should step in and force insurance provisos for the WWE" under the guise of "look, we are just keeping our citizens safe and healthy", that logic can be applied to anything the government deems "unsafe" and "unhealthy". And are they choices? Yes, but so is getting into the business. Maybe I missed the WWE tank that was rounding up people and forcing them to get into it. Where is it? Oh it doesnt exist you say? THEREFORE ITS A CHOICE!!
But using your logic, you think they SHOULD pay for the contractors insurance, because they are "providing a service", just like the wrestlers in the WWE.
Im not against unions but I am all for a company being able to say "We dont want one". I work for a non union company, I dont get abused. All foreign car makers that have factories and plants in the US, all of them are non-union and their people have health benis, time off, and all of that. You are foolishly equating non-union to abuse and its not that simple. You tell me how the WWE "abuses" their stars? By making them do their fucking job? Working for 20 min a night for 3 nights plus a TV taping?
They wouldnt be hired by me to begin with. I am paying them an amount they agree to, if they cant pay their own medical bills, why the fuck is that my problem?
They are different industries, for sure, but your logic says people taking a chance while giving a service should have employers who are FORCED to give insurance. And short of the Government establishing healthcare, they have NO BUSINESS telling private businesses how to run their company.
Its not so much deaths in general, its also the fact that wrestlers retirements regardless of death are around the same age. Even the latest retirees (excluding the Flairs) are around 50, when the average retirement age is supposed to be 65. Wrestling is a much rougher schedule that the average worker. I agree WWE isn't directly injecting steroids, but indirectly through a craptastic wellness policy as well as showcasing guys like Batista and Bobby Lashley is encouraging drug abuse. The only reason the Batistas arn't busted is because of a HUGE loophole that says you cant be busted if you have a presciption, pure bs if you ask me.
Calm down there big fella. lol. I actually semi agree with this point. I don't think the government itself should impose insurance policies on private companies, but I also think wrestlers have a right to unionize themselves if the benefits for doing so will help them live longer. Joining wrestling is a choice, but I also don't believe that we should be discouraged from doing what we love just because WWE prefers big guys. That kind of creative prejudice needs to change.
WWE could easily cut their pay for the insurance, I really don't see the problem in that. Even the lowest of jobbers make pretty decent money working for the WWE, I'm sure a small price reduction for insurance isn't so much to ask. You make it seem like it would be apocalyptic to their profits if they were to "GASP" actually take care of their workers.
Also traveling every day of the year world wide, given zero time to recover injuries unless they are deemed by doctors that they are unfit to compete. I may not be a superstar, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that being a professional wrestlers isn't as much of a walk in the park that you make it out to be. Just to throw this out there, Wal-Mart is a non union company, I think that says enough about how a worker can be given the shaft by a private company who are masters at working around the system, which is exactly what Vince is trying to do and needs to be stopped.
The only difference here is that you wouldn't be paying them an amount they agreed to, you would be negotiating with the union, who would send you a worker they thought was best suited for the job at hand. Which is still totally irrelevant to how WRESTLING actually works, but I am leveling with you here. I still don't see how being under a contract that is in the interest of the worker harms you, or your house, at any moment in time.
Agreed. Government enforced insurance is one step beyond socialism, which defeats the purpose of democracy. But the superstars should have a right to have proper health benefits and at least halfway decent drug testing to help them maintain their way of life without being threatened with losing their job for doing so.
First of all, it IS possible to get ripped without the gas. Second, the gas is fine in moderation. Third, ITS ALL IRRELEVANT SINCE NO ONE IS FORCED TO TAKE THEM!
So you can only wrestle in the WWE? You arent discouraged from doing what you love, youre discouraged from doing it in the WWE.
And a wrestler can get insurance for 50 dollars a month through private providers nationwide. Especially considering wrestlers have gone for almost 80 years without it.
And no one is saying YOU HAVE TO WORK AT WALMART. You are glossing over that fact, which makes everything else moot.
Yeah, so instead of looking for a worker who I think is best suited for a job, I am to trust someone else, piss on that noise. And lets not forget that not ALL union workers are these great people who work hard. Look at the American auto industry who basically crippled it from getting paid roughly 75 dollars an hour, including benefits, a two year "you dont have to work but you get paid clause" and an 80% pay on a severance package for the rest of their lives. Guess, what, THATS NOT SUSTAINABLE. And the Unions wont renegotiate because the heads dont care about the car business, the only care about themselves. So dont sit there and tell me these unions are so great because when you get greedy fucking people in there, they piss on everyones parade by SHUTTING DOWN THE BUSINESS.
No one has a right to have their employer provide them with health care, the same with drug testing considering they shouldnt be doing them to begin with.
Considering most of your last rebuttal had to do with mostly caps locks and repetition at this point, I will just revert back to my original point and I guess we will have to just call this one quits, since we can't seem to reach a consensus after a full page of back and forth debate.
My original point was that congress should force WWE to choose whether they are a sport or an entertainment industry, which would thereby allow either SAG or Athletic Commissions to get involved. Not that they should be forced to accept either of the two options after clarifying what type of employment they are. I will leave off by repeating my thesis. WWE athletes are the most underappreciated and undercared for employees of any sports athlete or actor union or non union. You're insistance that its all the wrestlers faults and no blame can be placed upon the employer shows exactly that. Underappreciation and lack of respect overall for what they do to keep people like you and me entertained.
My original point was that congress should force WWE to choose whether they are a sport or an entertainment industry, which would thereby allow either SAG or Athletic Commissions to get involved. Not that they should be forced to accept either of the two options after clarifying what type of employment they are. I will leave off by repeating my thesis. WWE athletes are the most underappreciated and undercared for employees of any sports athlete or actor union or non union. You're insistance that its all the wrestlers faults and no blame can be placed upon the employer shows exactly that. Underappreciation and lack of respect overall for what they do to keep people like you and me entertained.
You still can not give one GOOD reason why drug use and abuse is the WWEs fault. You cant because there is none. This bullshit idea of people needing to be protected from themselves is laughable. Congress has no place FORCING any private company to do anything because, as my original thesis said, its not their fucking job. They are to make laws for the benefit of society, not just one segment. Once Congress knows its able to force a union on pro wrestling it can do anything from deciding how many high spots can be done in a match (if at all) to deciding how often wrestlers should get off between gigs. The government has no right to tell Vince McMahon how to run his business, PERIOD!