The Sleeper Hold

[-TJ-]

In his series of matches against Kane, Dolph Ziggler has been using a more believable and slightly modified version of the sleeper hold as a finisher move to go with his Zig Zag. Now if you don't understand what I mean by modified is he applies a scissors lock around the waist, this makes it more believable as he is not only choking him with the neck he is adding extra pressure with the scissors and to be honest, the sleeper hasn't been used lately and the last time you saw it in a match it was a wear down submission instead of a finishing submission.

To my understanding in today's world, a sleeper isn't exciting, but WWE could use the submission style of MMA to make their submissions look believable. (Example, Kurt angle vs. Desmond Wolfe 1 Wolfe tapped immediately to a modified triangle choke, which was kayfabe claimed to have an extremely tight grip)

So Dolph's sleeper hold could fly legitimately, but how will it fly with the viewers? And plus another question is was the sleeper only used for the series of matches against Kane?

Discuss.

 

[Moonlight Drive]

Dolph Ziggler using a sleeper? He's tiny.

Perhaps if it was a bigger wrestler, not huge just bigger, it would work. But not with a guy as scrawny as Dolph.

 

[-TJ-]

He can be tiny and still sell it, the commentators just have to mention the tight grip and the receiving wrestler has to sell it like so. Because he's scrawny he uses the scissors which adds pressure. It's legit. But you didn't answer my question of would it fly with the fans?

 

[Moonlight Drive]

No, it wouldn't fly with the fans. They can sell 'the grip' all they want, there's no way in hell a little guy like Dolph could take a giant like Kane out with a sleeper hold. Ziggler's whole style is flashy and obnoxious, I just cannot see a sleeper hold believably fitting into his repetoire.

 

[Rated RJC]

I would love more than anybody for Ziggler to get some sort of gimmick move or something to 'add' (if you want to call it that) to his matches but I just see him using this during his feud with the bigger, Kane.

This is kind of on subject but I do agree that WWE should incorporate more submission wrestling in their programming. Slap a few mid carders/main eventers with a submission hold and let them run with it. Cena pulled the STF out of his ass and it became legit in such a short time. I actually like when Cena counters a Pedigree or RKO to the STF. Plus having a submission finisher to go along with a normal move adds to a main event match if you're in that spot.

 

[-TJ-]

No, it wouldn't fly with the fans. They can sell 'the grip' all they want, there's no way in hell a little guy like Dolph could take a giant like Kane out with a sleeper hold.

And that's where I disagree. It's choking the life out of you. Have you ever been in a legit choke sleeper style by a smaller guy? Doesn't matter the size, it could affect you legitimately so I think it could work.

Ziggler's whole style is flashy and obnoxious, I just cannot see a sleeper hold believably fitting into his repetoire.

And that's where I think you got me. It doesn't fit right into his style. So I guess you're right for it not fitting right with Dolph, but it could with a wrestler like Cody Rhodes, Drew McIntyre, and especially Sheamus.

But yeah.

 

[Moonlight Drive]

I like the idea, but just doesn't fit Dolph. I know what you mean about smaller guys, but it's just if I saw Ziggler putting a much bigger man in a sleeper and bringing him down it would look totally out of place.

Someone who's a bit buffer like Swagger could work it into their arsenal quite well though imo.

 

[Axis]

Orton has the ORTONLOCK~ under control.

 

[-TJ-]

I would love more than anybody for Ziggler to get some sort of gimmick move or something to 'add' (if you want to call it that) to his matches but I just see him using this during his feud with the bigger, Kane.

This is kind of on subject but I do agree that WWE should incorporate more submission wrestling in their programming. Slap a few mid carders/main eventers with a submission hold and let them run with it. Cena pulled the STF out of his ass and it became legit in such a short time. I actually like when Cena counters a Pedigree or RKO to the STF. Plus having a submission finisher to go along with a normal move adds to a main event match if you're in that spot.

I totally agree with you on that. I think if WWE adds submissions as finishers instead of wear down submissions, it could bring back some of that wrestling fan base that they lost in the past year.

I like the idea, but just doesn't fit Dolph. I know what you mean about smaller guys, but it's just if I saw Ziggler putting a much bigger man in a sleeper and bringing him down it would look totally out of place.

Someone who's a bit buffer like Swagger could work it into their arsenal quite well though imo.

In my mind, if anyone should use a sleeper it's Sheamus. I don't know why, but I can see him pulling it off well.

Orton has the ORTONLOCK~ under control.

That move is pure awesomeness..

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

The sleeper as of late has been used as the classic move to bring down a giant by a smaller guy, so I don't think Ziggler's size is really an issue. However, a submission move doesn't fit his persona at all. He's flashy, arrogant, flamboyant, I don't see how a submission, and specially a sleeper, fits in there.

 

[seX-Power]

I think with the way Ziggler applies it, it could fit into his moveset well. Not to finish matches or take out guys like Kane though, that's pushing it.

 

[Airfixx]

LOL... Has Ziggler shrunk recently or sumthin'?

Haven't caught a Ziggler match for a while... Are we effectively talking about a 'Tasmission'?

 

[THE Brian Kendrick's Biceps]

LOL... Has Ziggler shrunk recently or sumthin'?

Ever since that first wellness policy violation. >_>

 

[kingovkings]

1st if you can lock on a sleeper hold correctly and tight enough, It does not matter how small you are and how big the person who is receiving it is. They are going tap or pass out simple.

As for kayfabe wise and Ziggler it doesn't fit his gimmick IMO specially not as a finisher, id like to see him use something a bit more zippy and devastating rather than a sleeper hold. But saying that he did make it look pretty convincing against Kane.

 

[Gards Jr.]

The word about his style pretty much makes most of TJ's points void. The finishers Dolph uses should be exciting and yes, I am just reiterating points made before me but that's not important.