The Real Mr. Wrestlemania

[Airfixx]

[Hogan] stole the show at almost every single one of those Wrestlemania's. If you were to ask people to name one match from every Wrestlemania that Hogan has been in, in almost every single one, the Hogan match would be the first one that comes to people's mind.

Savage stole the show at WM, 3, 4, 5 & 7 (and arguably 8!) so that's half the first 9 outta the window straight away. WM6 granted, best match of the night. WM 8.... So you're telling me that the crap that Hogan & Sid served up stole the show above Save/Flair & Bret/Piper... RUBBISH! 9... FUCK OFF!

I'm not gonna get caught up in the same old Hogan arguments, but no, just no.

The main events get engrained in the memory regardless of how good they are (because they're promoted so much harder). This is NOT stealing the show.

I'd say his best Wrestlemania match was against Warrior. They had nearly 68,000 people on their feet for over 20 minutes.

I'd rank it second behind his match with Savage, but fair do's.

[Re: Savage/Hogan]LOL The typical comment about a Hogan match. It's true that Hogan worked the same match for many years, but it’s also the same match that almost every wrestler works when the face wins. The bad guy beats up the face, and the face comes back in the end and prevails.

Typical, but in the case of this match completely justified. I understand Hogan didn't need to be the greatest athlete in thw world to be the great worker that he was, but Savage/Hogan at WM5 is the archetypal one-sided performance (not match) and indeed one of Savages best matches (a standard which is generally much higher than you're average Hogan match).... Don't quote me on it, but I'm pretty damn sure it was Hogan's longest WM match and that's down to the efforts, skill and athleticism AND storytelling ability of one (Macho) man.

This I agree with. I believe that his match against Steamboat is the greatest of all time. His match against Warrior is not far behind.

So you're basically agreeing with my assesment of WM 3 & 7 then afterall? :roll:

 

[Jay Swagger]

f you took out the crowd reaction and hype away from andre/hogan and actually watch the wrestling between the to..

it's a flat out sloppy as match...

Basically you can say the same thing about HBK/Flair last year at WM. If that match was put on on Smackdown or RAW, on some regular show, just to have it on, and they performed he same way they did last year....it wouldn't really be remembered. Yeah Andre/Hogan might have been not the best athletic match, but everything surrounding the match, and the people in the match, and what went down in the match made it special. Hogan has had more special and big moments in Wrestlemania than Shawn Michaels in my opinion.

 

[C4]

Bottom line is that Shawn Michaels has performed in better matches at WrestleMania than The Undertaker has till now. His performance at WrestleMania over the years has been phenomenal.

 

[Next Big Thing]

Savage stole the show at WM, 3,

Wait a minute. So you're telling me that Savage stole the show, on the same card that Hogan slammed Andre? That is one of, if not the biggest and most important moment in wrestling history. Hogan easily stole the show at that Wrestlemania, and that one is not even close to being debatable.

4

Savage wrestled 4 times, but didn't really put on any matches that stole the show. Hogan wrestled once, but it was also in the most anticipated match of the night. He was also involved in the main event. But since Hogan's match only went 5 minutes, I'll give you this one.

5

Agreed. Savage and Hogan stole the show that night.

& 7

That one is very debatable. I would say that Savage/Warrior was the best match on the card, but the match that stole the show was Hogan/Slaughter. The controversial storyline surrounding the match is what made the match so epic. The fans wanted to see the American hero take down the man that had been bashing their country, and they got what they wanted.

(and arguably 8!)

What stole the show at this Wrestlemania, was Warrior returning to help Hogan, and the two of them celebrating after the match. In terms of a wrestling match stealing the show, nothing really stands out on this card that people still think about years later. You could easily make the argument that with the Warrior's involvement in Hogan's match, that Hogan's match stole the show. But I'll let you have this one, and say that Savage/Flair stole the show that night.

so that's half the first 9 outta the window straight away.

Hogan stole the show at WM 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7. Savage stole the show at WM 4, 5 and 8. So that's 6-3 for Hogan. And that’s only when we talk about the first 8 Wrestlemanias. Hogan easily stole the show with the Rock at WM 18, and arguably stole the show at 19 against McMahon.

WM6 granted, best match of the night. WM 8.... So you're telling me that the crap that Hogan & Sid served up stole the show above Save/Flair & Bret/Piper... RUBBISH!

Like I said, I could argue that it stole the show, but I'll let you have this one. If you reread my comment, I said TWO times, that Hogan stole the show at ALMOST every single one of the Wrestlemanias that he has competed in. If you look at the ones that he didn't steal the show in, he was still damn close to doing so.

9... FUCK OFF!

Considering that it was one of the worst Wrestlemania's of all time, I could very easily say that Hogan stole the show. Hell, he probably stole the show twice that night. First time was his return for a tag team match, and then at the end winning the belt in a 21 second match after Yokozuna had just won it about 2 minutes earlier. Obviously Hogan/Yokozuna is not a classic match, but when you look back at this PPV, it's easily what it's remembered for.

I'm not gonna get caught up in the same old Hogan arguments, but no, just no.

The main events get engrained in the memory regardless of how good they are (because they're promoted so much harder). This is NOT stealing the show.

That argument would work if we weren't talking about ppv's that took place 15 plus years ago. The hype going into a match has nothing to do with what match stole the show once he ppv started. A perfect example of that would be WM 13. Undertaker/Sid main evented the ppv, but Austin/Hart is the match that is best remembered.

I'd rank it second behind his match with Savage, but fair do's.

Meh, doesn't really matter. Both were great matches.

Typical, but in the case of this match completely justified. I understand Hogan didn't need to be the greatest athlete in thw world to be the great worker that he was, but Savage/Hogan at WM5 is the archetypal one-sided performance (not match) and indeed one of Savages best matches (a standard which is generally much higher than you're average Hogan match).... Don't quote me on it, but I'm pretty damn sure it was Hogan's longest WM match and that's down to the efforts, skill and athleticism AND storytelling ability of one (Macho) man.

What is funnier than your original argument, is the fact that you completely cut out everything I said about Hogan's selling ability. So I'm going to take that as you agreeing with me. It also wasn't Hogan's longest match. His matches against Warrior, Slaughter and Vince McMahon went longer.

I just love how people always dismiss Hogan's wrestling abilities. People say he wasn't a good wrestler, and he didn’t do anything in his matches besides get beat down and then Hulk up and win. If Hogan was not a good wrestler, how did he stay so popular for such a long time? That makes little sense to me. I'm assuming the reason he gets so much crap is because he used a limited move set. He used a move set that fit his character perfectly though. If you have ever watched Hogan wrestle in Japan, you would know that Hogan is more than capable of performing more moves and working a different style. The reason Hogan didn't use that style is because it wouldn't make sense for his character to work a technical match. It's not the style you work, or the amount of moves that you do in the ring that is important, it's how you work that style and performing moves that fit your character.

So you're basically agreeing with my assesment of WM 3 & 7 then afterall? :roll:

I firmly believe that Hogan is Mr. Wrestlemania. I'm agreeing with you in your assessment that if anyone other than the people already mentioned could make an argument for being Mr. Wrestlemania, it would be Randy Savage.

Like I already said regarding WM 3, while I believe it was an amazing match and probably the best of all time against Steamboat, it got completely overshadowed by Hogan's match with Andre. Same goes for WM 7. It was a great match, but there was something on the card that people remember even more than it.

hogan entertainment is 10/10, but his in ring wrestling is about 1/10

I always get a laugh out of this argument. Hogan was a horrible wrestler, yet he was the most entertaining. Isn’t the entire point of wrestling to entertain an audience? It’s the argument that some people are wrestlers, and some people are entertainers. There is no logic to that argument, yet I still see it used all the time.

 

[Airfixx]

Bottom line, I subscribe to the notions of Mr Wrestlemania put forth to us by WWE (as highlighted within the first couple of posts in this thread)... It seems to me you're veering towards a third twist on the idea of what exactly the title of 'Mr. Wrestlemania' should represent.. That being the guy that was part of the biggest moments. I'm not saying you're wrong to subscribe to your own criteria, but I was stating my case regarding the below point 'b'.



a) Taker: Wins (Kayfaybe).
b) HBK: Matches (My mildly shit-stirring alternative nomination being Savage).

...and:

c)Hogan: Moments... Granted.


(By the way I didn't ignore your comments about Hogan's work/selling... I said he was a great worker, ffs!)

 

[SnackZ]

Seems like we can all agree now that Mr. WrestleMania is Hulk Hogan. When it all comes down to it you have to say to yourself "What made this WrestleMania memorable?" and if you honestly look at the history of WrestleMania only one man can stake that claim. And that is Hulk Hogan. Like him or not, politics or not, ego or not, he is Mr. WrestleMania, with Shawn right behind him and then Savage and then Taker. Taker has the streak but nothing really memorable match wise. I can't think of ONE WrestleMania where Taker is my best memory of the event, not one. I can give at least 3 or 4 to HBK but Hogan has way more. I see Savage closer to HBK, like if I were rating them on the memories they've given me it would be:

Hogan 9/10
HBK 7/10
Savage 6/10
Taker 3/10

 

[Jay Swagger]

I still think Austin has more memorable WM Moments than 'Taker....maybe even Savage. But thats just me.

 

[SnackZ]

Lots of guys have more memorable moments than Taker - the only reason he's in this discussion is because of the streak. I seriously can't think of anything memorable from Taker at any Mania other than his entrance.

 

[Jay Swagger]

What about the epic showdown between 'Taker vs. Big Show & A-Train? or the Hell in A Cell Classic, Undertaker vs. Bossman? Even better, Undertaker taking on Giant Gonzales. The best of 'em all, his epic encounter with Mark Henry in a Casket Match.....

 

[SnackZ]

What about the epic showdown between 'Taker vs. Big Show & A-Train? or the Hell in A Cell Classic, Undertaker vs. Bossman? Even better, Undertaker taking on Giant Gonzales. The best of 'em all, his epic encounter with Mark Henry in a Casket Match.....

LMAO - if you were CenaHardy I'd have taken that as a serious argument, lol. Remember the hawk on his shoulder at WM9, lmao, so lame. I really hope HBK ends the streak. I PRAY to god.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

He stole the show at almost every single one of those Wrestlemania's. If you were to ask people to name one match from every Wrestlemania that Hogan has been in, in almost every single one, the Hogan match would be the first one that comes to people's mind.

NO! I can cite several examples. Bret vs. Yokozuna was a far more standout match than Hogan getting an un-sanctioned match and being handed the title on a silver spoon.

WrestleMania I had two standout matches:
Nikolai Volkoff & The Iron Shiek vs. The U.S. Express
Andre The Giant vs Big John Studd (dont hate on that match for some of it's boring big-man vs. big-man action).

WrestleMania II I'll give to you.

WrestleMania III:
Hart Foundation & Danny Davis vs. The British Bulldogs & Tito Santana
Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage
The only highlight of Hogan vs. Andre was the slam... show wasn't stolen though.

WrestleMania IV:
PURELY a Savage and DiBiase show. Nothing else mattered that night... ESPECIALLY not Hogan.

WrestleMania V:
The Twin Towers vs. The Rockers (Shawn Micheals STOLE the show early)
As stated elsewhere, SAVAGE stole the match vs. Hogan. Hogan benefited off of Savage's performance.

WrestleMania VI:
Dusty & Sapphire vs. Randy Savage & Sherri
But yes, Hogan vs. Warrior was dope (mainly because of Warrior)

WrestleMania VII:
The Rockers vs. Barbarian & Haku (once again HBK steals the show EARLY)
Nasty Boys vs. Hart Foundation (match was excellent for TNB)
Jake Roberts vs. Rick Martel blindfold match. Pretty decent for a knob idea.
Undertaker vs. Jimmy Snuka (match wasn't a sleeper as stated before, smh)
Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage retirement match
Hogan vs. Slaughter was a bore, especially considering the "fiery" feud leading up to the match.

WrestleMania VIII:
Shawn Michaels vs. El Matador (once again, stealing the show EARLY)
Bret Hart vs. Roddy Piper
Randy Savage vs. Rick Martel
Hogan vs. Sid sucked horribly for a Main Event

WrestleMania IX:
Tatanka vs. HBK (stealing the show in the OPENING match)
Steiner Brothers vs. The Headshrinkers
Lex Luger vs. Mr. Perfect
Bret Hart vs. Yokozuna (as I said at the beginning of this post)

WrestleMania XVIII:
Hogan vs. Rock was the entire focus. The match was probably Hogan's best at WrestleMania... but made a lot better by... The Rock!

WrestleMania XIX:
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho (match is a top 10 in WrestleMania history, Hogan doesn't have one of those).
The Rock vs. Austin (always great)
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle

WrestleMania XXI (since some jackass submitted the HOF):
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (ALWAYS EPIC)
MITB - Edge victory
Undertaker vs. Randy Orton
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels (the SHOWSTOPPER!)



Again, I can think of plenty of HBK matches that come way before ANY Hogan match. I can think of plenty of Bret Hart matches that come before ANY Hogan match. I can think of Rock, Hunter, Taker, Edge (& Christian), etc. matches that come before Hogan.

Hogan is synonymous with a match highlight (a slam on Andre)... he's not synonymous with WrestleMania like HBK, like the Streak, like Bret Hart, like The Rock or Stone Cold. My father is the biggest Hogan fan I know... and he'll even tell you that Hogan's best moments were comparable to garbage in relation to other in WM history.

 

[SnackZ]

NO! I can cite several examples. Bret vs. Yokozuna was a far more standout match than Hogan getting an un-sanctioned match and being handed the title on a silver spoon.

WrestleMania I had two standout matches:
Nikolai Volkoff & The Iron Shiek vs. The U.S. Express
Andre The Giant vs Big John Studd (dont hate on that match for some of it's boring big-man vs. big-man action).

WrestleMania II I'll give to you.

WrestleMania III:
Hart Foundation & Danny Davis vs. The British Bulldogs & Tito Santana
Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage
The only highlight of Hogan vs. Andre was the slam... show wasn't stolen though.

WrestleMania IV:
PURELY a Savage and DiBiase show. Nothing else mattered that night... ESPECIALLY not Hogan.

WrestleMania V:
The Twin Towers vs. The Rockers (Shawn Micheals STOLE the show early)
As stated elsewhere, SAVAGE stole the match vs. Hogan. Hogan benefited off of Savage's performance.

WrestleMania VI:
Dusty & Sapphire vs. Randy Savage & Sherri
But yes, Hogan vs. Warrior was dope (mainly because of Warrior)

WrestleMania VII:
The Rockers vs. Barbarian & Haku (once again HBK steals the show EARLY)
Nasty Boys vs. Hart Foundation (match was excellent for TNB)
Jake Roberts vs. Rick Martel blindfold match. Pretty decent for a knob idea.
Undertaker vs. Jimmy Snuka (match wasn't a sleeper as stated before, smh)
Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage retirement match
Hogan vs. Slaughter was a bore, especially considering the "fiery" feud leading up to the match.

WrestleMania VIII:
Shawn Michaels vs. El Matador (once again, stealing the show EARLY)
Bret Hart vs. Roddy Piper
Randy Savage vs. Rick Martel
Hogan vs. Sid sucked horribly for a Main Event

WrestleMania IX:
Tatanka vs. HBK (stealing the show in the OPENING match)
Steiner Brothers vs. The Headshrinkers
Lex Luger vs. Mr. Perfect
Bret Hart vs. Yokozuna (as I said at the beginning of this post)

WrestleMania XVIII:
Hogan vs. Rock was the entire focus. The match was probably Hogan's best at WrestleMania... but made a lot better by... The Rock!

WrestleMania XIX:
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho (match is a top 10 in WrestleMania history, Hogan doesn't have one of those).
The Rock vs. Austin (always great)
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle

WrestleMania XXI (since some jackass submitted the HOF):
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (ALWAYS EPIC)
MITB - Edge victory
Undertaker vs. Randy Orton
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels (the SHOWSTOPPER!)



Again, I can think of plenty of HBK matches that come way before ANY Hogan match. I can think of plenty of Bret Hart matches that come before ANY Hogan match. I can think of Rock, Hunter, Taker, Edge (& Christian), etc. matches that come before Hogan.

Hogan is synonymous with a match highlight (a slam on Andre)... he's not synonymous with WrestleMania like HBK, like the Streak, like Bret Hart, like The Rock or Stone Cold. My father is the biggest Hogan fan I know... and he'll even tell you that Hogan's best moments were comparable to garbage in relation to other in WM history.

You're funny - you've named maybe 3 MEMORABLE matches on that whole list and you have the audacity to say that WM3 wasn't STOLEN by Hogan/Andre - are you serious dude?? Just because a guy has a great technical match (Savage/Steamboat=best WRESTLED Mania match ever imo) that doesn't mean it is what makes that Mania MEMORABLE. You've obviously got a hard on for HBK to say he stole the show on those early Manias. And its crazy to not give any credit to Hogan for his match against Savage or the Warrior. He knows how to sell a match dude. You're young and niave and buy into all the Hogan hater BS that goes on now. Soon you're gonna say that Michael Jordan isn't the greatest basketball player to ever play the game and that its Kobe or Lebron. Geeze.

 

[Next Big Thing]

Bottom line, I subscribe to the notions of Mr Wrestlemania put forth to us by WWE (as highlighted within the first couple of posts in this thread)... It seems to me you're veering towards a third twist on the idea of what exactly the title of 'Mr. Wrestlemania' should represent.. That being the guy that was part of the biggest moments. I'm not saying you're wrong to subscribe to your own criteria, but I was stating my case regarding the below point 'b'.



a) Taker: Wins (Kayfaybe).
b) HBK: Matches (My mildly shit-stirring alternative nomination being Savage).

...and:

c)Hogan: Moments... Granted.


(By the way I didn't ignore your comments about Hogan's work/selling... I said he was a great worker, ffs!)

I don't understand how I am making my own criteria. When the WWE calls him Mr. Wrestlemania, they are referring to his performances that stole the show. I have pointed out plenty of Wrestlemania's where Hogan has stolen the show. If Hogan is involved in the match that is best remembered from that night, how is that not stealing the show?

Let's also keep in mind that HBK being called Mr. Wrestlemania really means nothing. It's just a tactic used by the WWE to try and hype up any match he has at Wrestlemania, this year especially. It means just as much as the WWE giving Chris Jericho the 2008 Superstar of the Year award. It's just something they can use in a promo to help hype up a feud or a match.

If the question is just asking between the Undertaker and Shawn Michaels, then I would agree that it's Shawn Michaels. Not once in 16 Wrestlemanias has the Undertaker ever had the most memorable match on the card.

As for RKO Legacy, I'm sorry but I'm not going to waste my time replying to that crap. At least Airfixx used matches that were memorable, and not undercard tag matches that 98% of fans don't even know happened.

 

[Airfixx]

^^^Fuck it; I don't expect you to suddenly cave in and concur to all I've said, but I broke it down into three simple, one sentence statements in order to at least help you understand where I'm coming from and you won't meet me half way so I'm done.

Seems like we can all agree now that Mr. WrestleMania is Hulk Hogan.

Sorry, I don't know what thread YOU'RE reading but this one doesn't suggest anything close to that.... It's just you and Next Big Thing.

[To RKO Legacy]You're young and niave and buy into all the Hogan hater BS that goes on now.

Quit acting like such a patronising prick.... The guy's 21 not 5... Beside, I'm older than you so bow down, Youngblood! : P



Hogan marks from the old days can't get into their fucking skulls that you could be young AND not be overtly entertained by Hogan....

Well, wake-up call... I'm that man (and i KNOW I'm not the only one!). Granted, I found him entertaining up to the late 80's, but I found him utterly repellent during the early nineties.

 

[LegendKiller0123]

Great posts in this thread but the simple fact is that Shawn Michaels is Mr. Wrestlemania..

Wanna know why?

He has had more high caliber matches at WM then anyone else in this business.. Let me make that clear... CALIBER MATCHES... Not just moments like Hulk Hogan has...

Hulk Hogan has some awesome MOMENTS at WM but none of them really involve a great match at all... I love Hogan and his style but at WM 9 he came out and beat Yoko after Bret had a long match and lost against him... Why? It was a big moment and etc.. But it was hardly a good match and his tag match earlier in the evening wasnt that great either...

There is no denying Hulk Hogan was the main event of WM for damn near 10 years... But the simple fact remains is Shawn had the better matches that imprint in your mind.. Ladder Match v Razor Ramon... His first REAL big breakout performance in singles action... Wrestlemania 12 was the best wrestling match ever IMO and him and Bret tore the house down for 65 mins...

HBK v Flair was a memorable moment and a fantastic match with all the emotion and effort put in by those two right there... HBK v Jericho at WM XIX was another instant classic of a match and people revere that match as being one of the best.. Another notable one is 2 years later as it was HBK v Angle in what some call the greatest technical match of all time and it went for a solid half hour...

In an awesome match at Wrestlemania 22 with Vince McMahon that just was an absolute entertaining match... The next year at WM 23 he put on one of his best performances going toe to toe with the greatest doing it right now in John Cena and the outcome was an outstanding draw and an incredible match...

Wrestlemania 20 he was apart of the awesome triple threat match that had He Who Shall Not Be Named winning the world title and he put on another awesome performance... He put Stone Cold over and had an awesome performance at the absolute pit bottom of his life... He was STILL outperforming most on the roster... His other notable match I would say is with Diesel when the playmates were in their corners... Mainly for the showmanship of that event..

It is ludicrous to think that HBK isnt Mr. Wrestlemania...

Hogans notable matches are as follows:

v Warrior
v Savage
v Andre
v Rock(purely entertainment)

and i guess you COULD argue

v Slaughter

Look at his other matches at WM..

v Sid Vicious?? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
v King Kong Bundy? Come on now...

Hogan cant compare to what HBK has done at Wrestlemania...

I like whoever put Savage as well cause he has had some amazing matches at WM and one of the best of all time with Steamboat... But my vote and the obvious one at that goes to H B K