The End for D'Z?

[Aids Johnson]

Lack of charisma, lack of proper in ring storytelling. Billy Gunn, like Dolph thinks that a loud voice equals a good promo and charisma. It equals neither.

Billy Gunn and Ziggler made a career out of high tempo matches, neither were or are any good at telling long, structured main event matches.

Ziggler doesn't sell shit. He bumps.

Bork sells like shit, Undertaker is too old for any decent match, HHH has the same match time and time again, Jericho Jobs, Ziggler oversells. All are overused complaints, hell Ziggler is making Silver (def not gold) against a guy we all assumed would be gone and dead by now. Ziggler gets the bad deals and still gets huge pops and sells.

DZ > DB all day, every day. Ziggler is babyface all day every day, and if you're making comparisons, it should be with HB Shizzle.

 

[Stopspot]

Bork sells like shit, Undertaker is too old for any decent match, HHH has the same match time and time again, Jericho Jobs, Ziggler oversells. All are overused complaints, hell Ziggler is making Silver (def not gold) against a guy we all assumed would be gone and dead by now. Ziggler gets the bad deals and still gets huge pops and sells.

DZ > DB all day, every day. Ziggler is babyface all day every day, and if you're making comparisons, it should be with HB Shizzle.

HBK sold way better than Ziggler ever has. Ziggler is some form of human pinnball, which devalues the offense of the guy working with him. The point of selling is to make what is done in the ring look legit. Dolph does not achieve that with his bump monkey shenanigans.Ziggler would be happy if he made bronze if it wasn't for Rusev.

Don't see why you want to bring Daniel Bryan into this but sure, I'll use him to shoot holes in this argument. When Bryan has a bodypart worked over, he makes that effect his work for the rest of the match. You work overr his left arm? That arm is out. You take out his leg, he hobbles. Bryan in short, sells until he has a rush of adrenaline, has his fire spot, then collapses. Ziggler doesn't get that, which after ten years in the WWE is mindboggling.

Dolph is not main event material. He's a tag team guy without a partner. When I compare him to Billy Gunn its not to be funny, it's because he is the new age Billy Gunn.

 

[Aids Johnson]

HBK sold way better than Ziggler ever has. Ziggler is some form of human pinnball, which devalues the offense of the guy working with him. The point of selling is to make what is done in the ring look legit. Dolph does not achieve that with his bump monkey shenanigans.Ziggler would be happy if he made bronze if it wasn't for Rusev.

Don't see why you want to bring Daniel Bryan into this but sure, I'll use him to shoot holes in this argument. When Bryan has a bodypart worked over, he makes that effect his work for the rest of the match. You work overr his left arm? That arm is out. You take out his leg, he hobbles. Bryan in short, sells until he has a rush of adrenaline, has his fire spot, then collapses. Ziggler doesn't get that, which after ten years in the WWE is mindboggling.

Dolph is not main event material. He's a tag team guy without a partner. When I compare him to Billy Gunn its not to be funny, it's because he is the new age Billy Gunn.

I agree he is Billy Gunn, but feel he is used just as poorly. I don't expect him to ME WM but I do agree on all of your points, I just feel he has been poorly used for a few years and it works the same as HBK vs Hogan style. DB I mentioned because both abuse their bodies horribly, but while DB has hurt himself, Ziggler was hit with his physical issues because of the opponents he is with.

You are crazy saying Bronze with Rusev though, he is the only reason dude still is relevant in any way, same as the last few opponents he has faced since ADR. Ziggler is > The Big guy, and would be a substantially better IC champ - coming from a huge fan of Ryberg. I just feel he is due for a midcard run and is used poorly. Ziggler with Lana is dead in the water, but you also know how I feel about Ryder. I feel Ryder is one of the top talents in WWE.

 

[Stopspot]

I agree he is Billy Gunn, but feel he is used just as poorly. I don't expect him to ME WM but I do agree on all of your points, I just feel he has been poorly used for a few years and it works the same as HBK vs Hogan style. DB I mentioned because both abuse their bodies horribly, but while DB has hurt himself, Ziggler was hit with his physical issues because of the opponents he is with.

You are crazy saying Bronze with Rusev though, he is the only reason dude still is relevant in any way, same as the last few opponents he has faced since ADR. Ziggler is > The Big guy, and would be a substantially better IC champ - coming from a huge fan of Ryberg. I just feel he is due for a midcard run and is used poorly. Ziggler with Lana is dead in the water, but you also know how I feel about Ryder. I feel Ryder is one of the top talents in WWE.

I'll agree that Ziggler is misused, he is a deserving midcarder. But he not being well used is in part due to WWE only recently realizing they have a midcard. I cannot agree on Rusev tho since I mark for the guy and think he has a lot of potential.

Another problem that holds Dolph back that also held Billy back is I don't think his wrestling mind is as mature as his body/athletic work. When you talk about a wrestler maturing you have to talk both about his athletic ability and his mind for the business. AJ Styles has the time of his life right now and is bonafide one of the best in the world now because he himself said "My mind has catched up with my body". He's simply getting what he has to do at any given time in ring. I don't think Dolph has hit that yet. Billy gunn hit that point when his career was basically over. Another example is Mark Henry, he signed with the WWE in 95-96, but he didn't "get it" until the hall of pain

 

[Aids Johnson]

I'll agree that Ziggler is misused, he is a deserving midcarder. But he not being well used is in part due to WWE only recently realizing they have a midcard. I cannot agree on Rusev tho since I mark for the guy and think he has a lot of potential.

Another problem that holds Dolph back that also held Billy back is I don't think his wrestling mind is as mature as his body/athletic work. When you talk about a wrestler maturing you have to talk both about his athletic ability and his mind for the business. AJ Styles has the time of his life right now and is bonafide one of the best in the world now because he himself said "My mind has catched up with my body". He's simply getting what he has to do at any given time in ring. I don't think Dolph has hit that yet. Billy gunn hit that point when his career was basically over. Another example is Mark Henry, he signed with the WWE in 95-96, but he didn't "get it" until the hall of pain

I agree with you entirely there. I just think the maturity used is the fault of WWE and how they develop.

 

[Stopspot]

The indy workers generally have more developed "minds" since they work diferent matches in different places in front of different types of people. So the WWE purebred guys are going to be at a disadvantage unless they are freaks like Angle who pick it up super fast. WWE's five shows a week process should lead to super developed minds for the business but when you only work the same match every night it puts a dampener on it

 

[Aids Johnson]

And to cater to the Tag team talk, Dolph is Bully and could use a Devon for the tables while arguably being Devon also. Ziggler could be a top pushed babyface if they played it right, and is EASILY CM Punk at his prime while being poorly used. CM and DB (I keep using them) are not better than ziggler, and CM is a one liner on the mic at his best.

Ziggler doesnt deserve a WWE run but should be pushed substantially more than he is currently. He is currently a step in the middle of progress for guys who look bigger than him but cannot wrestle better. We talk all day about Lesnar and his NCAA accomplishments while avoiding Zigglers.

 

[Stopspot]

And to cater to the Tag team talk, Dolph is Bully and could use a Devon for the tables while arguably being Devon also. Ziggler could be a top pushed babyface if they played it right, and is EASILY CM Punk at his prime while being poorly used. CM and DB (I keep using them) are not better than ziggler, and CM is a one liner on the mic at his best.

Ziggler doesnt deserve a WWE run but should be pushed substantially more than he is currently. He is currently a step in the middle of progress for guys who look bigger than him but cannot wrestle better. We talk all day about Lesnar and his NCAA accomplishments while avoiding Zigglers.

Because his amateur credentials aren't that impressive outside of his school. Outside of being a three time mid american all his records are "best at his school." Not best in the nation. Swagger is much better amateur comparison to Brock if we are going to use that. Or Gable down in NXT who is a olympian.

 

[Aids Johnson]

Because his amateur credentials aren't that impressive outside of his school. Outside of being a three time mid american all his records are "best at his school." Not best in the nation. Swagger is much better amateur comparison to Brock if we are going to use that. Or Gable down in NXT who is a olympian.

Swag I can deal with, but his lisp kills him. I'm comparing Ziggler to Lesnar because neither are amazing on the mic but both are great at what they do.

Gable is piss poor on the mic, Angle was where he belongs in WWE, he is top 10 easily.

 

[Stopspot]

Swag is like Brock. He shouldn't talk outside of a few words. He should just kill.

 

[Aids Johnson]

Swag is like Brock. He shouldn't talk outside of a few words. He should just kill.

Swag just can't hold a microphone. He should have a mouthpiece like Heyman, but midcards.

Ziggler is a legit national wrestler, Chael Sonnen style. Thats who the WWE needs.

 

[Stopspot]

Swag just can't hold a microphone. He should have a mouthpiece like Heyman, but midcards.

Ziggler is a legit national wrestler, Chael Sonnen style. Thats who the WWE needs.

Swagger has better national amateur credentials from what I gather. Ziggler was a mid-American. Swagger was an all-american and ranked seventh in the NCAA rankings. Ziggler's creds from what I can gather was on a regional level. Impressive ones, but Swagger was the guy competing on a national level.

 

[Aids Johnson]

Swagger has better national amateur credentials from what I gather. Ziggler was a mid-American. Swagger was an all-american and ranked seventh in the NCAA rankings. Ziggler's creds from what I can gather was on a regional level. Impressive ones, but Swagger was the guy competing on a national level.

They both are very high ranked athletes, the difference is Swag has no ability to even talk in any way, and Ziggler gets pops in the top tier rank.

 

[Pop Tatari]

Same bland moveset, look for years etc.i remember his shitty ass cape phase. Deserves his status. Overrated as fuck

 

[The GOAT]

Dolph Ziggler is Midcard For Life.

Maybe it's not completely fair to call him that since he's never properly received a main event push with the company's full backing behind him (and at the end of the day, we can make all the comparisons with other guys that we want to - i.e. Billy Gunn - but the audience views everyone differently... I don't recall Billy Gunn ever having the kind of popularity that Ziggler has as a singles star), but he's just never struck me as one of those guys who are just so talented or charismatic that I'd consider it a huge missed opportunity he was never given the chance to become a top player. There's a ton of other guys I'd rather see in the main event than Ziggler.

And this current storyline is goddamn terrible. And if this angle really is Vince's way of trying to split Rusev and Lana apart in real life (which there isn't any proof of, but since this is Vince we're talking about, it wouldn't surprise me a bit), I can't imagine it doing anything but backfiring since Ziggler and Lana have literally no on-screen chemistry with one another.