The Chris Beniot Love?

[Montana]

Many people feel as though Chris Beniot if not one of the best, the best technical wrestler in the last 20 years or so.

My question is what was so great about Chris Beniot's in ring work? What were his "best matches" Favorite Beniot moments...

Cause i've never been a fan of his, which is odds because i like technical wrestlers like Bret Hart, Eddie Guerrero, and Daniel Bryan.

So what makes Beniot better than the rest???

 

[TombstoneCity1387]

The fact that he could match ANY of the guys you listed hold-for-hold, move-for-move, suplex-for-suplex. The man told a story when he wrestled a match, his technique was near-perfect, and not only were his moves precise, but his intensity while performing those moves was second to none.

 

[pumpt73]

For as much as I have lost all respect for Benoit (I know it's a touchy subject so I won't delve into it as we all know the story), his wrestling speaks for itself. In a day and age where workers like Benoit were few and far in between, he stood out. Like TC said, his intesity was second to none. He could match up with almost anyone. A straight forward no frills wrestler, he didn't need anything flashy to get over. Nope, just solid wrestling. I think everyone likes seeing a wrestler like this come along because we like to see the workhorses. Benoit the wrestler was special. I won't compare him to guys like Danielson or Davey Richards for that matter because those two haven't finished their careers yet. If Richards keeps going, I see him drawing a lot of comarisons to Benoit over time. In fact last week on ROH on HDNet, Prazak drew him a comparison to Dynamite. Totally skipping over Benoit. Wow, that has to be the nicest post I've had about Benoit since the tradgedy.

 

[CMS]

His intensity, as the others have said. There have been other technical wrestlers just as impressive as him, but the single intensity he delivered each move was amazing. The way he seemed to have no regard for his body (yeah, we all know how that paid out for him though) made for some great moments. As awkward as seeing his topes and sick, sick flying headbutts are now that you know they effect they had on Benoit, they were magical during his matches.

 

[CMS]

And this is coming from someone who really isn't a Benoit fan. I prefer Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerrero over him. Guys who are technical but have another dimension to their games

 

[Montana]

Just debating for fun here guys, nothing personel. I'm just not a big Benoit fan.

For as much as I have lost all respect for Benoit (I know it's a touchy subject so I won't delve into it as we all know the story), his wrestling speaks for itself. In a day and age where workers like Benoit were few and far in between, he stood out. Like TC said, his intesity was second to none. He could match up with almost anyone. A straight forward no frills wrestler, he didn't need anything flashy to get over. Nope, just solid wrestling. I think everyone likes seeing a wrestler like this come along because we like to see the workhorses. Benoit the wrestler was special. I won't compare him to guys like Danielson or Davey Richards for that matter because those two haven't finished their careers yet. If Richards keeps going, I see him drawing a lot of comarisons to Benoit over time. In fact last week on ROH on HDNet, Prazak drew him a comparison to Dynamite. Totally skipping over Benoit. Wow, that has to be the nicest post I've had about Benoit since the tradgedy.

I'll agree with you he didn't need any special gimmick or anything to get over. he earned his spot by making a name for himself organization to organization. (japan, ecw, wcw, wwe) Which is a great point.

The fact that he could match ANY of the guys you listed hold-for-hold, move-for-move, suplex-for-suplex. The man told a story when he wrestled a match, his technique was near-perfect, and not only were his moves precise, but his intensity while performing those moves was second to none.

Matching them doesn't make him better though. Suplex for Suplex...He was no Taz when it came to suplexs, he did his 3 germans, which si very common now a days, and really doesn't take much skill. As far as telling a story in the ring Benoit is still not in the same league as HBK, Flair, Hogan, Undertaker amoung of storytellers. Intensity yes.

But now that it's all said and done for Benoit, I'd say most people think his crowning achieve was Wrestlemania 20 winning the championship. Now looking at most of Benoit's greatest matches, it almost always seems like he's paired up with another one of wrestlings best. He worked programs with Kurt Angle, HHH, HBK, Jericho, Eddie G, amount others. But who did Benoit help get over. Who did Benoit take to the next level? I am thinking kinda like (with a recent example) Daniel Bryan wrestling Dolph Ziggler. Bryan brought the best out of Ziggler, i felt and really help him become more over because of it. Who did Benoit do that with? MVP??? Randy Orton??? Booker T?? I think you could argue these guys were over with or without Benoit. He ditched WCW about the time they were making him a star.

Other guys like HBK, Bret Hart could wrestle guys of any size and have matches. Has benoit wrestled any Great matches against any much larger opponents??? I honestly don't recall any note worthy matches.

Also favorite Benoit matches and moments?? To me his WM 20 win, and his Best of 7 are really his highlights of his career. Which doesn't seem all too impressive for supposedly the best technical wrestler of his era.

I still have Benoit ranked behind Bret Hart and Kurt Angle in terms of techical wrestlers. Guys like Eddie G, and Daniel Bryan are right there, but at the end of Bryan's career i think he will easily surpass Benoit. Then you have guys like Ric Flair and HBK who are on another level i feel with the storytelling/entertainment aspect.

 

[pumpt73]

Yeah, the intensity characteristic was his calling card. He was very solid in the ring, but to be honest, I'll put Dynamite ahead of him. That's just me. Eventually I think Davey Richards is the next in the line of wrestlers in this mold like Dynamite, Benoit, Malenko, etc.

 

[CMS]

Montana brought something to attention about Benoit. I can recognize that Benoit put good matches virtually every night, but to me to enjoy one of his matches, he needed to be paired with one of the "top tier" talent. His matches against HHH, HBK, Kurt Angle, are really, really entertaining. While, at least to me, his matches with midcard talent altough of course are technical gems, I more often than not found them boring.

I do disagree about MVP not being put over by Chris Benoit. MVP, not since 2007, has been able to put as a good as a match as he did three times with Chris Benoit. It now appears that their series of matches were all thanks to Chris carrying him.

I have fond memories about Benoit in 2000, when they were doing that gimmick of him winning the WWE Championship only for something to happen and the decision to get reversed. I remember watching it as a kid and now I watched it back not so long ago on Youtube.

 

[Montana]

Good point about MVP CMS. Which is true, i don't think MVP has really had a better match, since back then that i can recall off the top of my head. I'm not sure if that's MVP's fault though, as much as it's been the booking, competition, and the time restraints of a midcard wrestler. Although if i recall correctly, MVP vs Benoit at Wrestlemania wasn't exactly anything to write home about. Maybe about 3.0-3.25 stars.

Pumpt has me thinking, why don't we see more wrestlers now a days with Intensity. Richards is a perfect example of intensity, and can really put on a great match, when he wants. When it comes to WWE/TNA you really don't see anything like that now. It's almost like saying a NBA calling cards is his ball handling skills. But All NBA players should have good ball handling skills. Well, I guess that's how i view the situation.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

Fuck. I had an epically long post but lost it because of the fucking auto log out. SOME ONE PLEASE FIX THAT SHIT. I have lost countless posts because of that and it's really annoying and it hampers possibly great debate.

So I will minimize my lost post.

To me Benoit, just on work rate alone is top five worldwide for the past 20 years. We're talking Misawa, Kobashi, HBK, Flair great. He could be matched with anyone and have a great match. And easily the most intense worker in the Americas during his time. As a straight worker, was levels ahead of Bret and Eddy. Had he just a tad more charisma he would have had a brilliantly successful career, but his calling card ring style is what led to his demise.

Monty, NEVER compare Taz to Benoit, EVER. Taz had two suplexes outside the shit Benoit did, the TBone and the Tazz plex and he played them out and could barley suplex people his size. let alone how ugly they looked when he tried suplexing larger people. As far as Benoit goes, as the Pegasus Kid he did ROLLING DRAGON SUPLEXES. He stopped doing them because it could really fuck someone up. But in regards to suplexing Benoit>>>Taz every single day.

Some really good Benoit suggestions:

vs. Kevin Sullivan- showing how versatile Benoit is, their best match in their year long feud was a falls count anywhere brawl from Bash at the Beach 97.

vs. Eddy- they've wrestled a million times, but if you can track down this jewel from WCW WorldWide in 95, you can see how awesome he was, even when just given 7 minutes. People wonder why Benoit doesn't have many "epic" matches, simply because he was never given the time. But when he was given the time, as with the 3 ways and against Angle @ RR 03, he tore that shit up. Here he tears 7 minutes up even though Eddy gets the duke.

vs. Jushin Liger So many matches here again. As the Pegasus Kid and Benoit, some of these matches get eerily close to emulating the Dynamite/Tiger Mask epics that predate them by ten years. The best American junior vs. the premiere Jap junior. Excellent shit.

Benoit/Dean Malenko vs. Chris Candido/Shane Douglas ECW 94- Probably the best match of Douglas' career, just a great tag match.

Benoit/Dean Malenko vs. Hennig/Windham Spring Stampede 99- Probably the best match Hennig had in WCW and easily the best match Windham had in his last WCW run

Benoit/Malenko vs. Raven/Saturn WCW Nitro Spring Breakout 99- It was an inpromptu match that made that entire show for me. Awesome shit.

Benoit/Angle vs. anyone during the days of the Smackdown Six

Benoit/Angle @ Royal Rumble 03. I know people have boners for Angle, but Benoit gave Angle the best match of his career here. Angle has charisma, but as far as ring work goes, he isn't fit to clean Benoit's ass with his tongue.

And here's something really special for people who love great wrestling, and shows why Benoit is the best short match worker in the industry's history. Although his opponent is his exact counter part as they were seldom given time to have epic matches and when they were given time, they tore shit down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_md33CpkXJA

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

Also we all know how terribly awful Bret Hart's WCW run was. They didn't know what to do with him or how to use him properly. It was awful. Bret only had TWO great matches in two years in WCW, and they were both against Chris Benoit. Both matches are great, and the Owen Tribute match is absolutely essential WCW viewing, as for one night, WCW threw out it's then failing format in favor of just some classy shit, topped off with this jewel.

 

[TombstoneCity1387]

One reason I always loved watching him wrestles was that his knife-edged chops were some of the most brutal I've seen outside of a Kenta Kobashi match.

 

[Montana]

Good Debate indeed...Sucks about losing your original post. I hate that. Thanks for the Benoit suggestions.

Work Rate of Benoit is second to none. No disagreement there. As a straight "worker" being better than Bret and Eddie. I suppose Benoit could be a better worker, but a better wrestler....I can't agree with. Match for Match, Bret Hart has a ton more classic matches, that meant some in the annals of wrestling history.

Bret Hart's WCW run, was awful. WCW as a whole was awful. With injuries, poor booking, and a washed up talent roster it really isn't much of a surprise Bret's best matches came against Benoit. Not saying Benoit didn't wrestle some good matches in WCW, but most of happenings in WCW after 98 were meaningless. WCW 99=TNA today.

Taz vs. Benoit in suplexs... I was kinda kidding around, but It's kind of the pot calling the kettle black, with Taz playing out his suplexs, but yet Benoit didn't?!? Benoit did like 9 german's in one match, let alone the trio of germans in practically every wwe match he's ever had. It's at least comparable. I'll agree Taz may have had a few sloppy suplexs on an aged Bam Bam Bigelow, but to say there is no comparision to that seems one sided. Certainly if the opponent of Taz take a suplex, it's unfair to say Taz is sloppy.

(How can you hate on Taz)
http://[yt]sSoBw3x6CNw[/yt]

I'll check out those Benoit matches i haven't seen. I seen his Brawls with Sullivan, match with Eddie and angle. From what i recall they good, but not great. Which is how i remember most of Benoit's work. I am also going to check out the Hard Knocks DVD soon (when i buy it on ebay) Which features some of those matches.

As far Angle's best match, HBK may have something to say about that.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

I LOVED the HBK-Angle matches, and I LOVE HBK more than anyone on this board, I just think those matches were a shade under the Angle-Benoit Rumble match. Benoit got a freaking standing ovation after that match he was so incredible in it.

 

[Airfixx]

Un-sung gem: Regal v Benoit @ No Mercy 2006.