The Animal Batistas Return Advertised

[Luke Flywalker]

Truth be told, I'd love to see Brock vs. Orton for the title, and Batista vs. Cena. Hell, I'd even dig a Batista vs. Punk match if it buys Trips outta fighting Punk until Extreme Rules or Summer Slam even.

All I know is, I'm actually pumped for a Batista return, maybe even moreso than I was for Brock's return. I'm just surprised Dave decided to come back knowing it's still a PG product and he has ALWAYS been adamant about not returning to that kind of environment. However, I guess even Dave has a price and you KNOW they offered him a payout he couldn't refuse.

 

[Keith]

Personally I don't want to see him back, but can't denay that he was a draw and for a small programme it could pay off for him.

 

[Embrace Thou Maryse]

Vanilla midgets vs Big Dave is fine, if you book it right.

HBK/Dave was great because of it employed realism, HBK bumped around for Dave and wasn't going toe to toe with him. He won by outsmarting him or flat out cheating. This is how you book monster vs flyer, the flyer gets the heat by selling and the monster loses by slipping on a banana peel.

This is why I hated CM Punk vs Brock.

Shows the difference in the times. Guys like HBK and such were taught how to work around a big man and make it believable, you don't just go toe to toe with somebody that in a legit fight would swat you out of the air like a bug. These guys like Punk and Bryan, etc. though all the indy guys have this mentality of just going toe to toe with them and making it look fake. We all know if Punk just stood in front of Brock he'd get freight trained to the mat and pounded into a bloody mess.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Shows the difference in the times. Guys like HBK and such were taught how to work around a big man and make it believable, you don't just go toe to toe with somebody that in a legit fight would swat you out of the air like a bug. These guys like Punk and Bryan, etc. though all the indy guys have this mentality of just going toe to toe with them and making it look fake. We all know if Punk just stood in front of Brock he'd get freight trained to the mat and pounded into a bloody mess.

I can't tell you how many little guys in all sports and fights I've seen go toe-to-toe vs. guys that should literally just run through them with no effort. That big-man BS is so ridiculous it is unreal now. Being big doesn't mean you have an invincible jaw vs. anyone who smaller than you. Bret Hart wasn't a big guy... he never had to sell like crazy to beat guys... he even went toe-to-toe with Yokozuna in a very good match and made it believable. You take your bumps. You dish out strikes and some quick, agile moves, and you get the advantage by working the limbs. That's an age-old style that works and continues to work and will always work.

All you guys who keep saying Punk/Brock weren't believable are in a very small minority. That match is still being talked about as match of the year (or runner up to Punk/Cena on RAW).

 

[Deezy]

Bret Hart was being bounced around like a basketball in his matches against Yoko

Royce Gracie beating guys who didn't know what they're doing would a terrible example too. He was scared shitless of Dan Severn.

Punk was facing a UFC Heavyweight champion and was made to look like he can just walk into an Octagon and take that shit too. That's the problem, Cena sold more than Punk did.

 

[SAIYANS]

I can't tell you how many little guys in all sports and fights I've seen go toe-to-toe vs. guys that should literally just run through them with no effort. That big-man BS is so ridiculous it is unreal now. Being big doesn't mean you have an invincible jaw vs. anyone who smaller than you. Bret Hart wasn't a big guy... he never had to sell like crazy to beat guys... he even went toe-to-toe with Yokozuna in a very good match and made it believable. You take your bumps. You dish out strikes and some quick, agile moves, and you get the advantage by working the limbs. That's an age-old style that works and continues to work and will always work.

All you guys who keep saying Punk/Brock weren't believable are in a very small minority. That match is still being talked about as match of the year (or runner up to Punk/Cena on RAW).

I think Luke what you're ignoring is that Punk even in his 400 day reign could barely get an edge on a guy like Kofi toe to toe. In fact he never squashed Kofi like del rio would, he got fought even if not over matched and would need help.

Then he went up vs Brock and Taker. Taker was explainable, taker was handcuffed by the rules of not letting his emotions overtake him because it cost him the streak and would do a disservice to Bearer. When it came time to Brock, he should've been getting his scrawny ass rag dolled. You know the way Cena and HHH got their asses rag dolled despite always being portrayed as tougher, stronger, and more brutal for years on end? Punk didn't even out technical wrestle Brock to negate the size like a Benoit or Angle, didn't out quick ala Rey, he just fought Brock when at no point in his career has he been able to out fight most mid careers straight up. I swear Shane McMahon made more sense with the hit and run story at backlash 01 than Punk at SummerSlam.

 

[Embrace Thou Maryse]

I can't tell you how many little guys in all sports and fights I've seen go toe-to-toe vs. guys that should literally just run through them with no effort. That big-man BS is so ridiculous it is unreal now. Being big doesn't mean you have an invincible jaw vs. anyone who smaller than you. Bret Hart wasn't a big guy... he never had to sell like crazy to beat guys... he even went toe-to-toe with Yokozuna in a very good match and made it believable. You take your bumps. You dish out strikes and some quick, agile moves, and you get the advantage by working the limbs. That's an age-old style that works and continues to work and will always work.

All you guys who keep saying Punk/Brock weren't believable are in a very small minority. That match is still being talked about as match of the year (or runner up to Punk/Cena on RAW).

Majority of the time though size trumps skill in a street fight. If we look at the UFC its safe to say Mighty Mouse, Barao, Aldo, Pettis, Hendricks, Weidman are all more skilled than Velasquez but in a fight he'd mirk them simply by using his size to throw them around. For every instance of a little guy beating a big guy there's 10 times where the big guy goes hulk smash. Punk didn't dish out strikes or hit and run, use speed etc. he just went toe to toe with an ex UFC HW Champ. Saiyans post captures the problem. Guys like Cena and HHH who have been built up as badasses for a decade or more struggled to beat Brock. In a street fight with Brock, Cena just got his ass kicked till the end. But there's Punk taking it to him with ease and thats after a career of struggling to beat jobbers. Cena and HHH worked a different style and sold Brock as a monster who they could only stop with chains, sledgehammers and steel steps. Its amazing really Punk is a little guy for wrestling and he's not jacked up like Benoit nor does he have that aggression to make it believable, but he just goes to toe with everyone. The little guys need to know how to work the style vs. big men.

I think Luke what you're ignoring is that Punk even in his 400 day reign could barely get an edge on a guy like Kofi toe to toe. In fact he never squashed Kofi like del rio would, he got fought even if not over matched and would need help.

Then he went up vs Brock and Taker. Taker was explainable, taker was handcuffed by the rules of not letting his emotions overtake him because it cost him the streak and would do a disservice to Bearer. When it came time to Brock, he should've been getting his scrawny ass rag dolled. You know the way Cena and HHH got their asses rag dolled despite always being portrayed as tougher, stronger, and more brutal for years on end? Punk didn't even out technical wrestle Brock to negate the size like a Benoit or Angle, didn't out quick ala Rey, he just fought Brock when at no point in his career has he been able to out fight most mid careers straight up. I swear Shane McMahon made more sense with the hit and run story at backlash 01 than Punk at SummerSlam.

 

[SAIYANS]

I agree with you they need to know how to work a match vs these big men.

Floyd Mayweather, the best fighter in the fucking world, bar none, pound for pound acted like he was scared of what Big Show could do him for example when he actually got in a ring with him at wm24 ... CM punk did Brock a disservice in presentation. Punk worked an excellent match for Punk and ROH/TNA where he came from, similar to when Goldberg ran his formula to perfection, but an excellent wwe style story telling match wasn't what he did at all at staples. Watch Michaels vs Dave at Armageddon or vs Masters at Unfogiven, Shane vs Show at backlash, Floyd vs Show, or Bret and Yoko ... that's an actual story being told

 

[Chris]

Why are we still arguing the Punk/Brock size thing when we know nothing is going to change. SummerSlam was four fucking months ago.

 

[Deezy]

KENTA sold for hard for Takayama in NOAH ffs.

It's ludicrous to even justify that match even for japan marks.

 

[PHX]

Somehow someway as usual this thread gets turned into a Punk criticism thread lol. All I will say in regard to topic you guys are on is that you guys need to rewatch the match cause Punk took a ass kicking in that match esp at the start when he was throwing Punk around like crazy. If I remember correctly PSYCH you actually praised the match and didn't have any of these things to say in the live PPV thread so I don't know why you are pulling this out now.

As for what this thread is actually about in Batista's return was never one of the people who was clamoring for him to come back but same time not unhappy about it either. There is a lot of things they could possibly do with him so should be interesting from that standpoint.

@Chris exactly : I don't get the point of this at all

 

[Deezy]

Why are we still arguing the Punk/Brock size thing when we know nothing is going to change. SummerSlam was four fucking months ago.

Someone took an offhand remark and blew it up AGAIN.

 

[SAIYANS]

Somehow someway as usual this thread gets turned into a Punk criticism thread lol. All I will say in regard to topic you guys are on is that you guys need to rewatch the match cause Punk took a ass kicking in that match esp at the start when he was throwing Punk around like crazy. If I remember correctly PSYCH you actually praised the match and didn't have any of these things to say in the live PPV thread so I don't know why you are pulling this out now.

As for what this thread is actually about in Batista's return was never one of the people who was clamoring for him to come back but same time not unhappy about it either. There is a lot of things they could possibly do with him so should be interesting from that standpoint.

@Chris exactly : I don't get the point of this at all

i didn't even bring up freaking Punk lol, I'm just commenting on who did. And yes I said the match was fine, it was punks best match of the year ... It was a AJ/Joe/Daniels feel, it could be appreciated in a different context. I never once said I liked the story, that punk or Bryan got Brock and Cena on that stage, or the actual psychology in either match.


But hey you know I'm all for talking about Dave. If we want to get back on topic, who do you want him getting at mania?

 

[PHX]

i didn't even bring up freaking Punk lol, I'm just commenting on who did. And yes I said the match was fine, it was punks best match of the year ... It was a AJ/Joe/Daniels feel, it could be appreciated in a different context. I never once said I liked the story, that punk or Bryan got Brock and Cena on that stage, or the actual psychology in either match.


But hey you know I'm all for talking about Dave. If we want to get back on topic, who do you want him getting at mania?

I didn't see how it got brought up I was just like how the fuck does this always keep getting brought up no matter what the original thread was about lol fair enough though.

As far as Batista at mania if the I get the dream scenario talked about a few weeks ago of Bryan vs HBK and Punk vs HHH or even a tag match with those 4 then I actually won't mind that 4 way you brought up with Cena/Orton/Batista/Brock to run off of the this is the 02 OVW class. Otherwise if he is a face I'd be interested in a Batista with 2 others against the Shield or just Batista vs Reigns. If he is heel and put with the Authority or something like that the idea of him vs Bryan/Punk or back to get revenge on Cena as long as this time they went with a gimmick match.

 

[Deezy]

Still think Batista should be saved for after Mania, think a guy of his star power would get lost in the shuffle. It's got to be a few main attractions and think multi man matches are never good (HBK,hHH,....... Don't count). Save him as a surprise partner for the next ppv like Hogan in 05. Pop some buy rates on the struggling months.