Stone Cold is overrated

[Carter]

I was talking about Vince McMahon as a character, not a promoter.

You didn't say that though at first

 

[Requiredderiuqer]

No @Dale Is speaking the truth

Well, i'm not anybody's alt so... no she is not speaking the truth. Insulting ("garbage") is a sign of insecurity. I'm not some sensitive Rock mark lol

 

[Requiredderiuqer]

I know it's morning in USA right now, so I'll be later. And guys don't delete or block this thread; i'm sure that'll be an interesting discussion, because it's an extremely unpopular opinion.

I want to discuss with others and not to exchange unpleasantries lol

 

[Carter]

Well, i'm not anybody's alt so... no she is not speaking the truth. Insulting ("garbage") is a sign of insecurity. I'm not some sensitive Rock mark lol

Eh? Is Dale a girl how would u know like? I'm not having a go at u , I'm telling u as AE fans us both Austin might not of drew as much but je was liked just as much

 

[Carter]

I know it's morning in USA right now, so I'll be later. And guys don't delete or block this thread; i'm sure that'll be an interesting discussion, because it's an extremely unpopular opinion.

I want to discuss with others and not to exchange unpleasantries lol

Hi i wasn't having a go at you, I was debating, u seem pretty decent , I like discussing ae era , take care.

 

[Grimoire Lenin]

Being overrated is subjective tbh as your opinions for who is and isn't doesn't really have much empirical merit, much like anyone else.

However, in my opinion, while I'm still doing my watch-through of RAW in 1996 and 1997, he was easily the third best wrestler and most entertaining star on the show just from his facial expressions and his wrestling ability pre-neck injury. If Owen never accidentally dropped him on his head, chances are he would have gone down as one of the best technical wrestlers of his time.

That said, he was treated very well in those two years as the challenger on the chase for the title. He helped give Bret Hart's heel turn life and helped give Bret more personality thanks to the dynamic between the two, and he gelled extremely well with Shawn to the point that the two, even injured, put on a pretty good match at Mania XIV.

As for why people may like Austin so much. It's what he represents. Steve Austin came around at the perfect time that the 90's counterculture movement was at its height. Corporate America was structurally at its strongest before the collapse of the economy following 9/11, and many people were feeling oppressed by the long work hours and hating their bosses. Steve Austin represented, much like Dusty Rhodes, the working class man. Whereas Dusty exuded the middle class values of scratching and clawing your way to the top, Austin represented rebelliousness and pushing back against the system. His rivalry with Vince McMahon was paramount in showing this, as the McMahon character was the white collar sniveling boss everyone wanted to beat up, and Austin was the blue collar worker stuck being an employee of this guy.

So I'm not really going to change your mind, but more so say that for four years (1997-2000), Steve Austin was a direct epitomization of middle class culture of the time. He was beloved because of what he represented and how he carried himself. Him being the biggest draw next to Hogan is more an effect this than anything else.

So that's my essay done for today.

 

[Carter]

Thats the most intelligent and articulating post I've ever read on stone cold, @Grimus Augustus if I could express myself like that man jezuz christ, how good was this , Barry im a huge Austin fan GOAT for me as like you said he was entertaining and done well with brets turn. Man many, many props to you beo



Seriously why the hell aren't you a writer?? Man you just said exactly why he's the best of all time but you may not think much of him, I don't know but what I do know is that man was so good to read.

 

[Requiredderiuqer]

Being overrated is subjective tbh as your opinions for who is and isn't doesn't really have much empirical merit, much like anyone else.

However, in my opinion, while I'm still doing my watch-through of RAW in 1996 and 1997, he was easily the third best wrestler and most entertaining star on the show just from his facial expressions and his wrestling ability pre-neck injury. If Owen never accidentally dropped him on his head, chances are he would have gone down as one of the best technical wrestlers of his time.

That said, he was treated very well in those two years as the challenger on the chase for the title. He helped give Bret Hart's heel turn life and helped give Bret more personality thanks to the dynamic between the two, and he gelled extremely well with Shawn to the point that the two, even injured, put on a pretty good match at Mania XIV.

As for why people may like Austin so much. It's what he represents. Steve Austin came around at the perfect time that the 90's counterculture movement was at its height. Corporate America was structurally at its strongest before the collapse of the economy following 9/11, and many people were feeling oppressed by the long work hours and hating their bosses. Steve Austin represented, much like Dusty Rhodes, the working class man. Whereas Dusty exuded the middle class values of scratching and clawing your way to the top, Austin represented rebelliousness and pushing back against the system. His rivalry with Vince McMahon was paramount in showing this, as the McMahon character was the white collar sniveling boss everyone wanted to beat up, and Austin was the blue collar worker stuck being an employee of this guy.

So I'm not really going to change your mind, but more so say that for four years (1997-2000), Steve Austin was a direct epitomization of middle class culture of the time. He was beloved because of what he represented and how he carried himself. Him being the biggest draw next to Hogan is more an effect this than anything else.

So that's my essay done for today.

Well, thanks for your answer, i have to say that i agree with your points.

What i'm basically saying is that he was kind of "one trick pony"; epitomization, like you said of the late 90s.

 

[Grimoire Lenin]

Well, thanks for your answer, i have to say that i agree with your points.

What i'm basically saying is that he was kind of "one trick pony"; epitomization, like you said of the late 90s.

I don't think anyone is saying he isn't, but we also forget that until he reinvented himself, Hogan was representative of 80's middle class values, so he could be construed as a "one trick pony". When he reinvented himself as a heel, the reason he got over was because the time period was right for it. All of his fans that were kids were now adults and didn't give a shit about his character, suddenly he's a rat bastard who sold his soul? Everyone wanted to see him get his ass kicked.

Austin tried to reinvent himself in 2001 but it failed because the time wasn't right. I'm sure it could have gone over like rover if, as mentioned, Austin never got hurt in '97 and continued wrestling all the way until 2005 when a heel turn to get Cena over could have been more doable. Hell, 2003 could have been doable too.

 

[Carter]

Man he said that great it was fantastic writing, did u see Austin before the nexk injury in wcwdamn he was good as stunning Steve with the blonde hair , he was definitely up there as one of the best in tje ring in any capacity, technically gifted, like grim said before the accident by Owen he would have been up there, even Austin admits after that that he had 6 moves and admits it , so yeah one trick pony think that's accurate, most were though, all wrestlers back then were all good at something, ain't one who wasbood ateveything, mic skills, look, charisma etc

 

[Carter]

Go on Barry lad , man you're gifted bro

 

[Requiredderiuqer]

Being overrated is subjective tbh as your opinions for who is and isn't doesn't really have much empirical merit, much like anyone else.

So I'm not really going to change your mind, but more so say that for four years (1997-2000), Steve Austin was a direct epitomization of middle class culture of the time. He was beloved because of what he represented and how he carried himself. Him being the biggest draw next to Hogan is more an effect this than anything else.

I'm not denying the fact that he was popular (extremely popular to be fair), but that's in my mind comes from strong booking and the late 90s culture. So: right man in right time.

I have a feeling that most of fans who consider Austin GOAT have this... i don't know... romanticised view upon him. That he alone kicked off AE by giving this 3:16 promo.

 

[Requiredderiuqer]

Man he said that great it was fantastic writing, did u see Austin before the nexk injury in wcwdamn he was good as stunning Steve with the blonde hair , he was definitely up there as one of the best in tje ring in any capacity, technically gifted, like grim said before the accident by Owen he would have been up there, even Austin admits after that that he had 6 moves and admits it , so yeah one trick pony think that's accurate, most were though, all wrestlers back then were all good at something, ain't one who wasbood ateveything, mic skills, look, charisma etc

Yes, i think that sayn' that Austin was a good technical wrestler is a fair statement. But, in my OP i was sayn' about him more as a draw, i'm not questioning his pre-neck injury in-ring abilities.

 

[Grimoire Lenin]

I think I also forgot to mention, that during his Championship reign in 1998, he was probably the *only* good thing on the show that has held up retroactively.

I'm not denying the fact that he was popular (extremely popular to be fair), but that's in my mind comes from strong booking and the late 90s culture. So: right man in right time.

I have a feeling that most of fans who consider Austin GOAT have this... i don't know... romanticised view upon him. That he alone kicked off AE by giving this 3:16 promo.

I personally think the Attitude Era, as far as WWF goes, was kicked off by Pillman/Austin. It was such a Russo-riffic thing.

However, I think rewatching 1998 RAW paints a perfect picture as to why Austin is so beloved. 1998 RAW was fucking God awful. It was some of the worst television I've seen in my life and most of the time it was saved by Austin and McMahon, and whoever was facing off against him. Retroactively watching these episodes, DX is shit and juvenile to all hell, the Nation of Domination and The Rock, nobody really even cares about, you got the fucking Oddities, Marc Mero, the Brawl For All, Goldust and all these geeks running around and so much shit happening at once that you don't even know what's going on anymore.

1998 really highlighted how Austin saved WWF during the time period because the shows fucking sucked all year round and only got marginally better in 1999 when Rock became a big star and Undertaker actually had an interesting character again.

 

[Requiredderiuqer]

I don't think anyone is saying he isn't, but we also forget that until he reinvented himself, Hogan was representative of 80's middle class values, so he could be construed as a "one trick pony". When he reinvented himself as a heel, the reason he got over was because the time period was right for it. All of his fans that were kids were now adults and didn't give a shit about his character, suddenly he's a rat bastard who sold his soul? Everyone wanted to see him get his ass kicked.

Yes, but he also created boom.