Stephanie set on pushing new stars

[Chuck Taylor's Grenade]

The only reason they are pushing new talent is because Triple H is running out of people to bury.

Fixed it for ya.

 

[MikeRaw]

^By that, you mean like when he lost to Orton at Backlash, and was made to look weak, by being punted and carried off? Or do you mean when he made Batista a star? Or wait, do you mean when he put over Edge numerous times? Oh, maybe you mean his losses to the likes of Hogan, Taker, and Michaels and Jericho, Benoit, and Goldberg??

 

[Chuck Taylor's Grenade]

Hogan, Taker, and Michaels were already established names.

Orton and Batista were in Triple H's cliq.

Goldberg was an established star, maybe not in WWE but still a recognizable name.

Jericho and Benoit are the only ones I can't argue about.

When was the last time Triple H wrestled a true lower midcarder and made them look good? By lower midcard I mean someone on the level of Dolph Ziggler or Brian Kendrick. I know he worked a program with Jeff Hardy but I consider Jeff an upper midcard/lower main event level person. Back in 2000 he wrestled funaki, tazz, taka, etc and made them all look great.

 

[Tsaalyo Phoenix]

Yeah, well, we'll see how long this lasts.

Also, what spiral said.

 

[MikeRaw]

Hogan, Taker, and Michaels were already established names.

Orton and Batista were in Triple H's cliq.

Goldberg was an established star, maybe not in WWE but still a recognizable name.

Jericho and Benoit are the only ones I can't argue about.

When was the last time Triple H wrestled a true lower midcarder and made them look good? By lower midcard I mean someone on the level of Dolph Ziggler or Brian Kendrick. I know he worked a program with Jeff Hardy but I consider Jeff an upper midcard/lower main event level person. Back in 2000 he wrestled funaki, tazz, taka, etc and made them all look great.

What would it prove to have him put them over though? When the time is right, and they're in for a title shot, or about to break into the main event scene, he'd put them over. But putting over a midcarder just for the sake of it doesn't accomplish much. He'd put them over, and they'd go back to staying in the low or midcard. He'll put guys over who are either already a big name, or about to become main eventers, and that's how it should be. Why would one of your top guys put over a guy in the midcard, if that guy is going to stay a midcarder for the foreseeable future. If he wrestled Kendrick tommorow, and put him over, Kendrick wouldn't suddenly be a main eventer. He'd be where he was before, and therefore, there's no need to put him over. When someone is ready to be a main eventer, he'll do what needs to be done, but if they're only a lowcard guy, why would he?

 

[Chuck Taylor's Grenade]

Why would he put them over (and by put them over I don't necessarily mean let them pin him I mean make them look good and not look like they don't belong in the ring with him)? Because that would elevate that person in the eyes of fans. Fans would be like "hey he almost beat triple h". Ok here's an example-Back in 1988 I think it was Ric Flair wrestled Sting at the first clash of the champions. At the time sting was not an established name and had only been wrestling three years maybe and they wrestled to a 45 minute time limit draw and flair made sting look like a million bucks. That's what I'm talking about. It's not about putting people over as in jobbing to them, it's about making them look good in the ring and elevating their stature in the eyes of fans.

I realize that Triple H should be the last in line to put people over but it just seems ridiculous that a wrestler will get a push and get wins over other established talent only to get buried by triple h. Triple H is so talented he has the ability to make others around him look better.

 

[MikeRaw]

My position on him jobbing to guys remains the same. He shouldn't. Not until they're ready to break in to the main event area. But as for what you're talking about, with making them look good... You don't think he's done that?
How about the matches he recently had with Ted and Cody, the two guys who are likely to be the next "big stars" of the business (if all goes well)? He's made them look great many times. He made Carlito look pretty good back in 2007. He's had some matches with Shelton Benjamin as well. Same goes for Kozlov, who really had no business being in the right with Triple H to begin with.

 

[Chuck Taylor's Grenade]

That's the problem. He doesn't do it as frequently as he should. I realize that some people you couldn't make them look good no matter how hard you tried.

 

[MikeRaw]

Why should he do it any more frequently? He has storylines he needs to keep up with. He's not just kickin' around doing nothign every week. It's not like he has no storylines, and is in random matches each week against midcarders where he can put them over. He's always in the midst of other, more important feuds, whether it be for the title or not. He can't just be randomly putting people over. Not only that, but if a midcard guy comes out and looks great against him, how does that explain how he'd (HHH) be getting a title shot, or facing top guys, if he almos gets beat by a Kendrick-type guy? lol.

 

[Chuck Taylor's Grenade]

the better a wrestler looks against triple h the better triple h looks when he overcomes the odds and beats them and the wrestler gets the rub from triple h so it's a win win. now maybe i went too far saying trips should make everyone look good. I know that wouldn't make much sense in the context of storylines but he should at least pull a halfway decent match out of other people (not already established names or people in the trips cliq) once in a while.

 

[MikeRaw]

^I strongly disagree with that. If a midcarder like Kendrick looks good against Triple H, yes, it gets him a rub, by looking good against a top guy, but it doesn't make Triple H look good for "overcoming him", because he's fought guys like Taker, Michaels, Rock, Austin, Cena, Edge, Orton, etc, in his career, that if he's given a hard time by a midcarder, it makes him look weak.
Again, HHH should put guys over when they're ready to break out, that I agree with. But there's no point to do it if the guy is remaining a midcarder for the foreseeable future. Just makes him look bad, and the other guy is going on to remain a midcarder anyway. Just no sense in it. Let Triple H be the guy who puts guys over when they're ready to be main eventers. No need to put guys over before that.

 

[Chuck Taylor's Grenade]

i can live with that. no point in giving a push/rub to someone who can't handle the ball.

 

[seX-Power]

Just my two cents in the argument, I feel that although HHH doesn't do as much burying as some people say, he still doesn't a lot and sometimes with no real point. Around Unforgiven 2008 when they had the Scramble match, it looked like Smackdown would elevate some new stars to the ME with Kendrick, Shelton and MVP. As I recall, HHH beat both Shelton and MVP in the lead up or fall out from the match, and he buried Brian Kendrick in a promo. Now this promo had no point except for HHH to gloat and make Kendrick look like a little bitch, and it completely halted Kendrick's possible push and he went down to the tag division. What HHH did to Vladimir Kozlov is another example. Kozlov just went down to HBK and Taker and granted he was a small part in their storyline and still can look strong but the next week HHH comes out and squashes him. This killed all of Kozlov's momentum on SD and again, was just another squash for the sake of it.

I'm not saying it's frequent, but these pointless squashes need to stop.

 

[JurassicBonez]

^I strongly disagree with that. If a midcarder like Kendrick looks good against Triple H, yes, it gets him a rub, by looking good against a top guy, but it doesn't make Triple H look good for "overcoming him", because he's fought guys like Taker, Michaels, Rock, Austin, Cena, Edge, Orton, etc, in his career, that if he's given a hard time by a midcarder, it makes him look weak.
Again, HHH should put guys over when they're ready to break out, that I agree with. But there's no point to do it if the guy is remaining a midcarder for the foreseeable future. Just makes him look bad, and the other guy is going on to remain a midcarder anyway. Just no sense in it. Let Triple H be the guy who puts guys over when they're ready to be main eventers. No need to put guys over before that.

I disagree with this. Triple H, as well as HBK, Cena, Taker, for example, are at a point in their career where they will always be over. (I don't mean lifetime over by the way). They can lose a match cleany and still be over, but pretty much whoever. That's logical people by the way, not some hometown jobber. Triple H could have lost to Kendrick and that could have helped elevate Kendrick as a threat to anyone, saying he beat a guy like Triple H. That would give him gloating previledges as well as feed his ego. Doing this would help elevate Kendrick, while doing absolutely nothing to Triple H. Triple H squashing Kendrick however hurt Kendrick while doing nothing for Triple H. Why choose the route where you hurt someone's career while doing nothing to someone's else instead of doing the one that elevates a rising star and doing nothing to a overly top guy?

Now it's what happens after the match that determines if it's a waste or doesn't make since. CM Punk couldn't beat Kane a the previous ppv, that could make Kane a threat to Punk and his MitB case. But just days later, Punk beats Edge (the World heavy weight champ) clean. And in doing this, they've completely forgot about Kane. Now that doesn't make since. So it's not just the match, it's the pre-sideing weeks, it's the "what happens next", the follow-up, that determines if its a waste or doesn't make since, or doesn't prove anything.

 

[MikeRaw]

I disagree with this. Triple H, as well as HBK, Cena, Taker, for example, are at a point in their career where they will always be over. (I don't mean lifetime over by the way). They can lose a match cleany and still be over, but pretty much whoever. That's logical people by the way, not some hometown jobber. Triple H could have lost to Kendrick and that could have helped elevate Kendrick as a threat to anyone, saying he beat a guy like Triple H. That would give him gloating previledges as well as feed his ego. Doing this would help elevate Kendrick, while doing absolutely nothing to Triple H. Triple H squashing Kendrick however hurt Kendrick while doing nothing for Triple H. Why choose the route where you hurt someone's career while doing nothing to someone's else instead of doing the one that elevates a rising star and doing nothing to a overly top guy?

Now it's what happens after the match that determines if it's a waste or doesn't make since. CM Punk couldn't beat Kane a the previous ppv, that could make Kane a threat to Punk and his MitB case. But just days later, Punk beats Edge (the World heavy weight champ) clean. And in doing this, they've completely forgot about Kane. Now that doesn't make since. So it's not just the match, it's the pre-sideing weeks, it's the "what happens next", the follow-up, that determines if its a waste or doesn't make since, or doesn't prove anything.

You're missing something there, though. WWE knows ahead of time whether they want to push a guy to be a rising star, and a new main eventer, before it happens. So if they have plans to make the guy big, then ya, Triple H should put him over, and he has in the past. But again, if the WWE doesn't have plans to make the guy big for the foreseeable future, then there's no need to have Triple H look bad against him, as it wouldn't do either guy any favors, as that guy he put over wouldn't move up the card as a result anyway.
I guess my point is, triple H should be one of the last steps for a guy becoming a main eventer. He shouldn't put them over before WWE even has oplans for them to be big. He should put them over once WWE has decided they want a guy to be a main eventer, and be one of the last steps. Neither guy would beneifit from Triple H putting over a guy who is remaining in the midcard for months or years afterwards. There's just no need. Once WWE has plans for a guy to be big, THEN, they can have Triple H put him over. No need for it before that.