Speculation: Penn-Hugest III November 20

[Colin Gimp]

(Loser pays for the pig roast at the afterparty.)

lol i mispelled hughes oh well.

CagePotato has learned through a source close to the situation that discussions are underway between Matt Hughes, BJ Penn and the UFC to set up a rubbermatch between the pair at UFC 123 on November 20.

The event, which is scheduled for The Palace of Auburn Hills in the Detroit suburb of Auburn Hills, Michigan will feature a main card match-up between former UFC light heavyweight champions Lyoto Machida and Quinton Jackson.

We first learned of the possible match-up last week, and although we were unable to confirm with Hughes or Penn camps as of time of writing, both men have since confirmed that they could possibly compete in November, so it seems like the tip was legit and that the bout is in fact a plausibility.

Penn mentioned in a video blog that was posted on BJPenn.com last week that he was contacted by UFC president Dana White about a possibly taking on a "big fight" in November.

Hughes made a similar statement yesterday via his website, Matt-Hughes.com.

"...Dana called me yesterday and we had an interesting conversation about the November 20th UFC in Detroit," Hughes wrote. "More news about that down the road."

If it comes to fruition, the bout will mark Penn's first fight at welterweight since he lost by TKO to current UFC 170-pound kingpin Georges-St-Pierre nearly 22 months ago.

At the time, Penn held the UFC lightweight strap and moved up to face St-Pierre in an attempt to win both titles, but fell short. Prior to that, Penn hadn't fought at the heavier weight since he lost to then-UFC welterweight champion, Hughes by third round TKO at UFC 63 nearly three years ago.

The first time the pair met, it was Penn who had his hand raised.

After coaxing a tap from Hughes in the first round of their UFC 46 170-pound championship bout, Penn walked away from the promotion, vacating the title without ever defending it.

When he faced Hughes at UFC 63, Penn actually wore his UFC belt to the cage, insisting that he was still the welterweight title holder.

There will likely be no shortage of bad blood between these two heading into this fight if it happens.

Penn has spoken about his desire to eventually move back up to welterweight for quite some time and it seems that the back-to-back losses to Frankie Edgar may have been the impetus for the change of scenery.
Maybe the 175+ guys who cut to 155 wont rule the divison anymore. Frankies jabs and speed shut down BJ twice.

With Matt Hughes having two big monmentum wins, and Pennès ego on the line, this seems like a big possibility. Dana loves riding the cotails of hype and popularity and this is the time to pull the trigger if you believe any of these guys are past their prime and are only going to continue to dwindle. Im sure Dana had no idea that Penn was going to lose to frankie like that. Maybe he wants to put a big fight into penn to get him working hard again. Who fucking knows, but I would love to see this fight and they;res no way Penn will try and box Matt hughes and work on his takedown defense and call that a strategy (seems like thatès what he did against Frankie, even though he lost his title too him, he still didnèt respect him and wanted to play frankies Game plan just to prove that he;s better, well that worked out BJ)

Hopefully this is more then playful speculation. What else would be a better matchup for these two guys if they wanted to fight as early as novemberÉ
We will have more as this story develops.


Penn wanted nothing to do with the speed of Frankie Edgar and the 155 divison is a clown divison anyway (imo) and maybe Frankies reign is an example of the sport evolving. Maybe no longer in that division are the 1

 

[pumpt73]

I don't understand this one at all. Well I shouldn't say that. To an extent I do. First up, Hughes is the one with everything to gain. After suffering 2 straight finish losses to GSP and Alves, Hughes as basically resurrected a career many thought was an afterthought. He won a decision over 170lb champ Matt Serra, then followed up with 2 finish wins against Renzo Gracie and a submission of Ricardo Almeida. Hughes has basically put his hat back into title contention. Penn has only won 1 bout at 170 in the UFC, and that was the win against Hughes. He's 0-3 since then. BJ can still tear it up at 155. He ran into his match in Edgar, plain and simple. Edgar has solid wrestling, a better gastank, and I never though I would say it, but better boxing than Penn. BJ probably wants to try to make a comeback at 170 (AGAIN) and I don't know why. Then again, he could just be wanting to take a break from 155. But then again, why risk a 3rd straight loss in a division that's not your regular division??? If Hughes wins, will Penn stay at 170 or return, yet again to 155??? If he wanted to do some damage, he'd be a huge 145lber. Not saying he'd own the division, but size wise, he'd be a big boy. So he lost to Edgar twice. It's not like he lost to some chump. Edgar since coming to the UFC, where his last prior bout was a win against UFC 155 stalwart, Jimmy Miller, has defeated the likes of Matt Veach, Spencer Fisher, Tyson Griffin, Mark Bocek, former title conteder Hermes Franca, former champion Sean Sherk, and now 2 wins against Penn. Not too shabby of a track record.

Go for it BJ. Hughes is rejuvinated. He has his own team that he trains with now. If Penn loses a third straight, I think he'll be at a crossroads in his career as he's only suffered 2 consecutive losses one other time, that being to GSP at UFC 58 and to Hughes at UFC 63. Penn has never lossed 3 straight in his career. If this fight happens, it only seals the deal that Im purchasing tickets.

 

[Colin Gimp]

in my eyes, Frankie is a chump. Jab`s and takedown. yeah he outboxed Penn, but in my eyes Frankie wanted a scorecard fight(just like all those small bastards), Penn wanted a finish. Penn was off the 2nd fight. that fight was just wierd. he wasn`t able to match the speed or intensity of Frankie so that`s why he probably thinks he`s played his role in 155. Gray will lay n pray on Frankie and they`res nothing the small man can do about it.

BJ has alot of pride and he takes that pride in him when he fights. In his mind, he was fighting a lesser opponent and wanted to fend off his strengths and use his own. It Didn`t work, so he`s going to go where it might be able to work. Penns fought at HW before so i`ve never really bought into the fact that LW was his dominant divison. LW divison has been weak compared to all the other divisons, not as technical and have never found their rhythym of what kind of fight to expect from the LW divison. Frankie could be bringing in the featherweight type of fight and making that the standard for LW guy and that`s nothing a big guy would want to do. even Nate Diaz got out of that divison, he must of seen the direction it was going. since Sean Sherk and Stevenson have been losing kimuras and most submission prowl have been lost from the LW divison. wrestling and boxing with madd madd cardio seems to be the LW norm nowadays

Yeah he lost at 170 but that was to gsp and hughes. And in mma, it`s not about your record at all, it`s about who you fought. I`d love to see BJ penn win this fight and continue in this divison to face the best. Always felt that the 170 pounders are miles ahead of the lightweight guys.

 

[pumpt73]

See that's his problem though Colin is his size. I will never discredit BJ. I've been a fan for far too long, but not at 170. I know he's fought all over the weight spectrum, but it doesn't mean it's smart. At 155 he has size, strength, speed, flexibility, submissions, KO power, boxing, everything. The key to his "dominance" of the division was his size. BJ is a pretty big lightweight. Plus BJ fights much more focused at 155. If you look at the guys cutting to make 170, they're monsters. GSP, Hughs, Fitch, Koscheck, etc. I mean to each their own, but Penn has a lot to lose in this fight. He can't take a third straight loss, no matter what class. He can't afford it. He's taking on a resurgent and much more focused Matt Hughes. Now, that could play into BJ's hands, as Hughes can get a tad cocky at times.

Honestly, I think if Penn were to stay at 155, I don't see why he couldn't regain his title. Sure he lost 2 straight to Edgar, but it's not like BJ isn't talented enough to beat him. 155 may not be the best in your eyes, but I've always said that's it's probably the most evenly matched of all the UFC divisions. The division has solid competition top to bottom and Edgar has already proven he can win. Granted he's a decision guy, but there's a lot of fighters out there that play that card. Granted, Im not one for decisions, can't stand them quite frankly, but a win is a win is a win is a win.

In the second fight something didn't look "right" with BJ. Almost the same look Machida had in the second fight with Shogun. When Penn is on, you're hard pressed to find a more complete and dangerous fighter in the World. A guy who can box, wrestle, grapple, and GnP if he has to. Heavy handed and flexible. It's scary just how talented BJ is. The problem, he's been chasing down something he let go of. That being his relinquished 170lb title. To each their own, but I just don't understand this at all. Granted it's a "fan's fight", meaning the fan's want it, but it makes no sense for Penn to take this bout right now. Not with 2 straight losses. He better have the best camp he's ever had for 170lbs because he's going to need it. Trust me, Hughes will be studying the Edgar bouts.

 

[Colin Gimp]

Penn doesn;t have the cardio anymore to match up with the Frankie Edgars. and now that he;s holding the title, everyone who;s a lightweight will try and fill his prototype. With mad cardio and technicality you can stifle GnP, Submissions and boxing. Penn doesn`t want a scorecard fight, he wants to focus on his cardio but let`s not get ridicilous. What i`ve been saying is that with Frankie winning a new era and way of training is being implemented. With guys like Kenny (wannabe finisher) losing to Gray (scorecard fighter) this supports the paradigm of the LW fight. With guys like Dan Hardy and Alves going the distance with GSP, Penn;s pride is hurt. and that divison while strong on paper is pretty loose as you don`t really know what to expect. It would probably be easier for Penn to make 170, and with GSP stating numerous times that he doesn;t cut weight for 170, I don;t see a problem when their paradigm doesn;t cut weight at all for his fights. The Welterweight divison;s normal height is just below 6; with Fitch being an exception, but look how lanky the fucker is.

Don;t really see how Fitch or koscheck could be stronger then Penn. And you have Alves who can;t even make weight for 170 anymore get dominated by another guy who doesnt really cut weight in Jon fitch. I believe the paradigm in GSP evolved the divison, and that;s something Penn will be excited to join as he;s been known to train on his skills more then his cardio among other things.
You still have the GSP`s/Fitch/Koschecks who will scorecard fight you, but they also focus on finishing fights allowing risk in their fights. Something that is being lost in the LW divison.

I believe 170 has always been the divison that Penn would have his best fights under. We really havenèt seen a dedicated BJ for a lonnng time and i think he;s always wanted to get to that level before returning to this divison to get his pride back. GSP dominanted him and he uses that as fuel for the tank every day. He will be better

 

[pumpt73]

See I don't buy BJ doesn't have cardio. Not at 155. He's come in the best shape of his life since returning to that weight. Look no further than the Sanchez fight. Unreal how ready BJ was for that bout. If he could ever duplicate that conditioning, he most certainly could regain his title. Like you said, Fitch barely drops weight to make 170. In fact, he's competed at that weight, including his years wrestling, for most of his career. The guy know how to make the weight, so you'll never see him drawn out and overdieted. Same thing with Kos. That alone will help keep your strength up if you don't have to drop 25lbs or try to gain 20lbs. Penn has to pick up about 10-15lbs I believe to get to 170. If I remember correctly, he's damn near 155 when he walks around. Now, can he gain the weight, and still have the conditioning he had at 155??? At 170, his conditioning is suspect, especially with a weight gain. At 155, his conditioning is pretty crisp. If his pride is hurt that bad, then focus on regaining your title. Stay at the weight, go through 2 or 3 contenders, and get one more crack at it. I still don't see the sense in going to 170. If BJ wins the bout with Hughes, then great. He'll definitely make a statement. Thing is, he's only won 1 bout at 170 in the UFC. Again, if Penn loses, then he's lost 4 straight at 170 in the UFC, and will pretty much negate any chance at regaining title fight at that weight. Then what??? Go back to 155 again because he couldn't get it done, AGAIN at 170??? I don't know, I guess it's an odd dichotomy. To me, the risks aren't worth the reward to jump up a weight. Not when you've shown dominance at 155 the past 4 years. I wish BJ well in the fight, but I won't be betting against Hughes.

 

[phantomgerald]

Will be interesting. I think it's beneficial for both parties. For Hughes to stay in the UFC, he to keep stringing these wins together or Dana will get him to retire. As for Penn, this is a good bounceback fight before he deserves if he wants to chase the 155 or 170 title

 

[straight_edge76]

I honestly would love to see them go at it again. Both guys both need this fight, Hughes has proven recently that he is trying to reinvigorate his career, and BJ has lost two straight to Edgar, who even though BJ is among my favorite fighters, was just out classed by Frankie. Both men have loads to gain and potentially loads to lose, if BJ loses his 3rd straight I could see Dana start to try and get him out of the UFC (and allegedly him and BJ have never gotten along all that well) and with Hughes he needs to keep winning to abvoid a Chuck Liddel type of going away 'party' if you could call it that. And neither guy if they end up leaving the UFC I could see anywhere else, both of them have far too much pride to do what guys like Mark Coleman and Ken Shamrock did after leaving the UFC and fight for lesser 'second rate' promotions.

 

[pumpt73]

I don't mind seeing the fight either, in fact, I will see it live as I just ordered my tickets for the event. But, Penn is in a must win situation. First, he's 1-3 in his career at 170, with his only win being his title win over Hughes. Since then he's dropped every fight he's had at that weight. Hughes is already on the upswing. After dropping his title and falling to Alves, fans and pundits were speculating he may retire. Well with three straight wins, including a beatiful submission win over a guy who nobody thought he would submit in Ricardo Almeida, Hughes is back and a serious threat to the 170lb championship again. If Hughes loses, no biggie. It's Penn that is in the must win. If Hughes wins, I think Dana has to seriously consider him for a title fight, if not a title eliminator for his next bout.

 

[Colin Gimp]

penn considered retirement, is he going to change his trainers or is hej ust going to continue doing something that isn;t working

mmajunkie


After falling short in an attempt to reclaim his lightweight title this past month at UFC 118, B.J. Penn spent his time on the flight home from Boston pondering his career.

Did he really want to continue fighting? Could he stomach another heart-breaking loss?

But by the time he landed in Hawaii and boarded a puddle-jumper to get to his home island, he had convinced himself to continue. And though he now meets welterweight Matt Hughes at UFC 123, Penn told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) he initially was targeted for a rematch with lightweight Kenny Florian.

Due to Edgar's effective stick-and-move game plan and well-timed takedowns, Penn lost his belt at UFC 112. And though he entered the rematch a nearly 2-to-1 favorite, Penn fell victim to a similar strategy the second time around.

During Saturday's UFC Gym opening in Rosemead, Calif., Penn talked to MMAjunkie.com about the long flight home.

"I was flying home, (and) I was kind of like, 'Maybe I don't want to do this anymore; I don't know what's wrong. If I'm going to go out there and perform like that, maybe this isn't something worth doing,'" he said. "But when I got to Hawaii and jumped on a little island-hopper to go to my island, something told me, 'B.J., stick to your game plan.' So I'm sticking to it."

So, wanting to get back into the cage and sticking to his earlier plan of fighting as often as possible, Penn (15-7-1 MMA, 11-6-1 UFC) talked to UFC president Dana White about his options. That ultimately led to a booking at November's UFC 123 event in suburban Detroit, where he'll meet Hughes (45-7 MMA, 18-5 UFC) in a rubber match. But another potential opponent's name first came up.

"I talked to Dana, and they tried to put me in the ring with Florian, (and) Dana said Florian was hurt," said Penn, who submitted Florian in 2009 to defend the belt. "[Dana] said, 'What do you think about Hughes?' I said, 'Matt Hughes?' I got chicken skin all over my body. I said, 'Tell him I'm coming. Tell him, let's go.'"

After suffering back-to-back defeats, Penn said he had more sense than to request a fight with a UFC Hall of Famer who fights at a heavier weight class – especially one who's climbed back into title contention with a string of wins over Matt Serra, Renzo Gracie and Ricardo Almeida. But with the opportunity to fight again quickly, and with Hughes on board, he simply couldn't pass it up.

"I'm more respectful than that to lose two fights in a row and say, 'OK, give me Matt Hughes,'" Penn said. "They offered me that fight. Matt was really excited about the fight. Dana called me and said, 'We offered Matt the fight. He's going to put everything on hold to take the fight if you want it.' And I said, 'I've got nothing else better to do. Let's do this.'

"I wanted to train and fight year-round, and my last fight didn't go the way I wanted it to go. But something told me (to take it)."

Penn and Hughes, of course, have met twice before. Penn won the first meeting via submission at UFC 46, but Hughes got his revenge at UFC 63 and scored a third-round TKO. Hughes lost his long-held welterweight belt for the first time with the UFC 46 loss. Prior to UFC 63, he reclaimed the title with a win over Georges St-Pierre and successfully defended it with the Penn victory.

Given their history and the opportunity to co-headline another event, Penn quickly was intrigued by the bout.

"I think fighters get excited for big fights, which is just why I was so excited," he said. "I know everybody's going to be interested to see what happens – people from both ends. Some people say, 'Matt Hughes is kind of coming up, and maybe B.J.'s going down a little. But we still know that if B.J. comes in good, he could really pull this off.' Matt's always good, so I think it's a good fight."

And though the two fighters often have clashed in the past, Penn says he's grown to appreciate his counterpart as they've both obtained veteran-fighter status.

"Over the years, maybe I didn't like Matt Hughes at certain times, but I love that guy," Penn said. "He's alright. He's still here. He's an idol for all of us to sit here and watch."

So why the change of heart?

"I don't know," he said. "As you get older, you just start to let things go, I guess. I look at Matt no different than any of us. We're all just trying to make it and do our best."