sorry crayo but...

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Crayo

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There's still a few problems with that team. Firstly, Rooney doesn't want to play as a no 10. Welbeck isn't as good out wide. Plus, of those four players you've mentioned, none of them are known as defensive-minded tacklers/ball winners and that's a problem Utd have had for years. I'm not sure Evans is good enough yet too.

Rooney doesn't mind playing as a #10. Modern teams don't need Keane-like players. We need midfielders who can apply pressure and keep the ball well. We don't need a player like Nigel De Jong ffs. I hate reading that sort of stuff from United fans.
 

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Ferdinand is ageing, Ashley young starting wtf?, kagawa should have started, maybe nani too as well, welbeck keeps dissapointing me everytime.
 

Brad.

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Rooney doesn't mind playing as a #10. Modern teams don't need Keane-like players. We need midfielders who can apply pressure and keep the ball well. We don't need a player like Nigel De Jong ffs. I hate reading that sort of stuff from United fans.

Almost every top team has at least one defensive-minded midfielder in their 1st choice XI.
 

Crayo

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Almost every top team has at least one defensive-minded midfielder in their 1st choice XI.

Carrick is a defensive minded midfielder for United. Busquets for Barcelona. Schweinsteiger for Bayern (since Martinez plays defence now). Khedira for Madrid (plays much more offensively than he used to). Fernandinho for Man City.

None of these players are go-in-hard tacklers. They read the game and intercept passes. They shouldn't need a pure tackler in the team if they have the ball for almost all the game. The days of Roy Keane's, Diara's, De Jong's, etc., are gone. Now your defensive minded midfielder needs to be a very good passer of the ball to set up attacks.
 

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Some vital changes are definitely needed. They will need luck on their side if they wish to linger around in the top 4 until the transfer window reopens. I still reckon they could be title contenders this season, only if they actualize the changes they need, sooner rather than later.
 

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Carrick is a defensive minded midfielder for United. Busquets for Barcelona. Schweinsteiger for Bayern (since Martinez plays defence now). Khedira for Madrid (plays much more offensively than he used to). Fernandinho for Man City.

None of these players are go-in-hard tacklers. They read the game and intercept passes. They shouldn't need a pure tackler in the team if they have the ball for almost all the game. The days of Roy Keane's, Diara's, De Jong's, etc., are gone. Now your defensive minded midfielder needs to be a very good passer of the ball to set up attacks.

Nope, Carrick's not good enough for that. I like Carrick as a deep-lying midfielder but he needs someone next to him who can tackle. Carrick has very little defensive impact on games. This guy knows: http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/23/manchester-united-midfield-david-moyes-problem
 

Crayo

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Nope, Carrick's not good enough for that. I like Carrick as a deep-lying midfielder but he needs someone next to him who can tackle. Carrick has very little defensive impact on games. This guy knows: http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/23/manchester-united-midfield-david-moyes-problem

It's hilarious that you think he has nothing to do with the defensive side of our game, yet he makes the most crucial interceptions I've ever seen. Do you think Barcelona need a tackling midfielder then? Please answer me that. Do Bayern?
 

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It's hilarious that you think he has nothing to do with the defensive side of our game, yet he makes the most crucial interceptions I've ever seen. Do you think Barcelona need a tackling midfielder then? Please answer me that. Do Bayern?

Barca press high as a collective unit so defend in a totally different way to utd. They also have Busquets, whose positioning is fantastic in terms of intercepting and closing down.

Bayern often play Lahm in front of the back four, as they did on Saturday, to act as an anchorman. If it's not Lahm it'll be Martinez or Schweinsteiger.

Besides, Bayern and Barca are both better defensively than United, so need less protection than those two teams. The Vidic-Ferdinand partnership is so vulnerable to pace and agility. Carrick doesn't provide the necessary help there.
 

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Barca press high as a collective unit so defend in a totally different way to utd. They also have Busquets, whose positioning is fantastic in terms of intercepting and closing down.

Bayern often play Lahm in front of the back four, as they did on Saturday, to act as an anchorman. If it's not Lahm it'll be Martinez or Schweinsteiger.

Besides, Bayern and Barca are both better defensively than United, so need less protection than those two teams. The Vidic-Ferdinand partnership is so vulnerable to pace and agility. Carrick doesn't provide the necessary help there.

You've described Carrick in two sentences.

"They also have Busquets, whose positioning is fantastic in terms of intercepting and closing down." - Carrick. Busquets isn't "fantastic at closing down" at all, but he makes crucial interceptions. They don't need a defensive minded midfielder because they keep the ball.

"Bayern often play Lahm in front of the back four, as they did on Saturday, to act as an anchorman. If it's not Lahm it'll be Martinez or Schweinsteiger" - Carrick. Are you blind? He does the exact same job. Schweinsteiger isn't a defensive minded midfielder.

United's defence is fine, maybe aside from Ferdinand. He can easily be replaced by Evans or Jones and our defence will still be fine. You're making excuses. You think Utd's issues are here because we don't have a midfielder like De Jong? You think a midfielder like that fixes everything? You think having two midfielders sit in front of the back four makes any kind of sense remotely? No. We do NOT need a midfielder like that.

So far we have had three big games of the season:

Liverpool away - We had the most possession and had complete control of that game. We couldn't create a single chance because of how poor our midfield are creatively. RVP was absolutely isolated and not in the game at all. We also had no Rooney, or anyone who could at least support him or be comfortable on the ball.

Chelsea home - Again, had great control over the game. Periods of utter domination in terms of possession as Carrick was left free to do as he pleases. But, once again, we couldn't create a single chance in the final third due to how poor we are creatively in midfield. Our wingers can't take a man on (Young needs to be sold on a free, Giggs shouldn't be in the squad, and Valencia can really only play well offensively with a Rafael behind him), so we have to play creatively through midfield. We didn't, and we drew 0-0.

Man City away - No control over the game because City pressed high. City have joined the list of teams that press high against us which consist of the likes of Barcelona, Bilbao, and Swansea which completely nullifies our possession game because only Carrick can keep the ball well in our midfield. If you close him down high, then you have control over United. But hey, losing control of possession isn't necessarily the end of the world, because if we still impose a threat going forward then we can counter attack like we did last year, and like Bayern did to Barcelona. Guess what... we have no creative midfielders or midfielders comfortable enough to pull a counter attack off. We countered and gave the ball away.

Our problems do NOT lie with midfielders who can't tackle, it lies with midfielders who can't keep the ball and be comfortable. United need to play with much more energy - pressing much better - and play much more creatively. We do it against the smaller teams, but we shut up shop against the bigger teams because we have the worst midfield in Europe out of any top European team.
 

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I'd just be repeating old points if I argued back. I do like Carrick though.
 

JeebaK

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Carrick is a defensive minded midfielder for United. Busquets for Barcelona. Schweinsteiger for Bayern (since Martinez plays defence now). Khedira for Madrid (plays much more offensively than he used to). Fernandinho for Man City.

None of these players are go-in-hard tacklers. They read the game and intercept passes. They shouldn't need a pure tackler in the team if they have the ball for almost all the game. The days of Roy Keane's, Diara's, De Jong's, etc., are gone. Now your defensive minded midfielder needs to be a very good passer of the ball to set up attacks.


Are you tryng to say Roy Keane wasnt a very good passer?
 

JeebaK

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Nope, Carrick's not good enough for that. I like Carrick as a deep-lying midfielder but he needs someone next to him who can tackle. Carrick has very little defensive impact on games. This guy knows: http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/23/manchester-united-midfield-david-moyes-problem


This, carrick is good when he gets time with the ball, but when pressured he isnt even close to being world class. And hes defensive abilities leave a huge gap in the midfield.
 

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What midfielers would you sign if you were in charge right now? I'm genuinely curious.

I would have spent whatever it takes on one of the following:

-Vidal
-Gundogan
-Khedira
-De Rossi

None of them are as defensive as say Mikel, who barely leaves his own half, but they're just what United need and would allow Carrick to do what he does best with the ball. Shame Moyes probably hasn't heard of them lol. Unsure on Fellaini, who was bad v City.