Samoa Joe Is Overrated

[Axis]

If you watch wrestling for MOOVEZ~ then you suck, quite frankly.

 

[monkeystyle]

How could the guy NOT be allowed to use a snapmare, slap and kick? You mean to tell me that they tell Joe to tone it down so he can't have an exciting match, but allow Shelley to do almost whatever he wants so they can have an exciting match? That's a bullshit argument if I've ever heard one.

For someone who has apparently been watching wrestling since they were two (like you'd remember anyway) you seem pretty oblivious to the fact that wrestling promoters make their wrestlers do stupid things all the time. It's a common occurance.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Good point but tna has wrecked a few wrestlers i reckon. Its booking story lines don't even make sense anymore at all. I dont think its his fault that he dont do the moves. Mind you at the next ppv who knows? Say he does all of his moves will you like him then?

I'm not saying I don't like him now. I just don't understand the hype behind Joe in TNA at this point in his career with the company. They've let him do the shit before, but because he's moved into the Heavyweight division, he's got to be held back? If you've got a guy who can be that talented and diverse, there's no reason you should hold him back.

If you watch wrestling for MOOVEZ~ then you suck, quite frankly.

Yeah, because people watch wrestling just to see a winner or loser.

For someone who has apparently been watching wrestling since they were two (like you'd remember anyway) you seem pretty oblivious to the fact that wrestling promoters make their wrestlers do stupid things all the time. It's a common occurance.

You should read through my posts a bit. I understand quite well that promoters make wrestlers do stupid things, and that shit gets restricted, or guys get held back, etc. But in-match quality should be among the highest priority for any wrestling company... so why not let the guys do things they've done for years and made themselves famous with?

It's not difficult to remember things from when you were 2... shit that shaped things in your life. 1989, Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog. Hulk Hogan in storylines with Sgt. Slaughter, Hogan "destroying" his own eye with a fireball "gone wrong". The beginning of an era in the WWF/E known as the Royal Rumble. The beginning of characters, and not just names. I remember quite a bit from the time.

 

[monkeystyle]

You should read through my posts a bit. I understand quite well that promoters make wrestlers do stupid things, and that shit gets restricted, or guys get held back, etc. But in-match quality should be among the highest priority for any wrestling company... so why not let the guys do things they've done for years and made themselves famous with?

lol I did read through your posts. They hurt, but I made it through them. This last one was the capper though.

So you're aware that promoters do stupid things, why don't they just let the wrestlers go all out and do what they do best? Etc, etc.

So... instead of putting the blame where it belongs (on the promoter) you blame the wrestler.

Does that follow any logical sensibility at all? No it doesn't.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

lol I did read through your posts. They hurt, but I made it through them. This last one was the capper though.

So you're aware that promoters do stupid things, why don't they just let the wrestlers go all out and do what they do best? Etc, etc.

So... instead of putting the blame where it belongs (on the promoter) you blame the wrestler.

Does that follow any logical sensibility at all? No it doesn't.

It's not a promoter telling Joe, "you can't improvise a few moves into a match when you know it needs a spark". You're seriously telling me it can't be Joe's decision to just become a bit more dependent on 9 moves/holds as opposed to wrestling all out and trying to get a 5* match?

 

[monkeystyle]

It's not a promoter telling Joe, "you can't improvise a few moves into a match when you know it needs a spark". You're seriously telling me it can't be Joe's decision to just become a bit more dependent on 9 moves/holds as opposed to wrestling all out and trying to get a 5* match?

Wrestling is a business. And business men know that the average person goes nuts for a slogan or a jingle or what have you. A calling card of some kind.

That is why promoters tell wrestlers to stick to their move set. This is why John Cena has like five moves. Marketing. And it's why Joe has his trademark moves. But as an aside the other moves do get used. They get used in house shows where the workers have more creative freedom.

But, you're a wrestling purist (or at least that is how your portray yourself. You can't be though because you likely spend your Monday nights masturbating to Orton appearances) and you know what? That's fine. But don't go expecting pure wrestling from two entertainment companies whose primary goals are to sell tickets and merchandise.

Seriously, it seems like three quarters of the planet ate a shit ton of paint chips as children and can't learn expectations.

 

[LKP]

You can't be though because you likely spend your Monday nights masturbating to Orton appearances)

You could have said cena or y2j lol. Id tune into raw every week for Orton cause hes the only good thing on raw right now. Apart from that i agree with you.

 

[Luke Flywalker]

Wrestling is a business. And business men know that the average person goes nuts for a slogan or a jingle or what have you. A calling card of some kind.

That is why promoters tell wrestlers to stick to their move set. This is why John Cena has like five moves. Marketing. And it's why Joe has his trademark moves. But as an aside the other moves do get used. They get used in house shows where the workers have more creative freedom.

But, you're a wrestling purist (or at least that is how your portray yourself. You can't be though because you likely spend your Monday nights masturbating to Orton appearances) and you know what? That's fine. But don't go expecting pure wrestling from two entertainment companies whose primary goals are to sell tickets and merchandise.

Seriously, it seems like three quarters of the planet ate a shit ton of paint chips as children and can't learn expectations.

No, not a purist... it's why I even ask questions. I just know quite a bit, have been extremely into the sport since I was little. But you're talking about entertainment companies... that rely on MATCHES to have a rating to sell tickets. You want people to enjoy those matches, so give the people more to every match. That's why shit like John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels on Raw was considered one of the matches of the year. It's why Undertaker at WrestleMania is always a match of the year candidate. It's why on TNA, Joe vs. Daniels vs. Styles was a match of the year candidate a few years back. Or why you'd find MOTY candidates in the International whatever it's called on TNA. You increase the opportunity to put fans in the seats by allowing wrestlers to show off more of what they can do in the ring. And me being a guy who enjoyed watching guys like Bret Hart who could diversify their moveset each and every week... kind of elevated what it takes for me to respect certain wrestlers. That's why guys like Orton, Jericho, HBK, Shelley, Angle, who are calculating and diverse in the ring get my respect, as I'm sure they get the respect of plenty of others.

 

[monkeystyle]

No, not a purist... it's why I even ask questions. I just know quite a bit, have been extremely into the sport since I was little. But you're talking about entertainment companies... that rely on MATCHES to have a rating to sell tickets.

The matches are now on the back burner if you haven't noticed. 5 minutes is the average Raw match run time. It's more about the super-hero like characters and it's been that way since the 80's.

You want people to enjoy those matches, so give the people more to every match. That's why shit like John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels on Raw was considered one of the matches of the year. It's why Undertaker at WrestleMania is always a match of the year candidate. It's why on TNA, Joe vs. Daniels vs. Styles was a match of the year candidate a few years back. Or why you'd find MOTY candidates in the International whatever it's called on TNA.

Three or four 5* matches a year tops. Yeah, they really focus on the matches to sell their product.

You increase the opportunity to put fans in the seats by allowing wrestlers to show off more of what they can do in the ring.

No you don't. You give them a catch phrase that can be repeated like "If you smell what the Rock is cooking."

And me being a guy who enjoyed watching guys like Bret Hart who could diversify their moveset each and every week... kind of elevated what it takes for me to respect certain wrestlers.

Please, I love Bret too but be realistic. Bret had his five moves of doom too.

That's why guys like Orton, Jericho, HBK, Shelley, Angle, who are calculating and diverse in the ring get my respect, as I'm sure they get the respect of plenty of others.

Sure they do, but they are not the norm and aside from Orton are great characters and wrestlers. But it i sthe character now that is th emore valuable commodity. Get with the times.

 

[LKP]

I think that's the final nail in the coffin spot on there monkeystyle. I dont think anyone can say anything else more now after that.

 

[Axis]

Yeah, because people watch wrestling just to see a winner or loser.

That's not what I said, at all. Wrestling is an art, and it is designed to create emotion. If you rely on kewl movez and sweet flipz then you're obviously going miss when true psychology and emotion comes into play.

 

[monkeystyle]

That's not what I said, at all. Wrestling is an art, and it is designed to create emotion. If you rely on kewl movez and sweet flipz then you're obviously going miss when true psychology and emotion comes into play.

In other words go watch CZW?

 

[X-Sterl-X]

Is Joe overrated? yes.... But is Joe badly overrated? I would say not, Me personally never really saw him to be a great seller... But for his size he is gifted athletically... His mic skills have never been praised because he just cant talk.... Overall he is probably like an 8/10 not a 9.5/10 like everyone says he is

 

[THE Brian Kendrick's Biceps]

That's not what I said, at all. Wrestling is an art, and it is designed to create emotion. If you rely on kewl movez and sweet flipz then you're obviously going miss when true psychology and emotion comes into play.

B I N G O and Bingo was his name-o.

Watch any Jack Evans, then watch a match with actual emotion and psychology in it. Tell me what's better.

 

[The Rated R CMStar]

I think sterl nailed it.

Samoa Joe is not as good as people say it is (come on, to have the nerve to actually call him the best in the world), but he isn't as bad as to create a thread about it