RAW 28/12/2010

[CMS]

I agree. To say the crowd weren't booing the hell out of The Miz during that promo is completely moronic.

The match was boring though. Nothing to say about that. Then again, all matches that consist of one man beating an old man up and having to do it at a slow pace because his opponent cannot keep up is doomed from the start.

 

[CMS]

BTW, color me surprised with how invested WWE seems on CM Punk. I like it, but I am shocked that WWE are giving Punk these big of a feud and legitimately out of nowhere.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

but till he can carry someone, and not have someone carry him, like Morrison will, Orton and Cena have, and Daniel Bryan did, he's a worthless jobber.

If you think Morrison has ever carried anyone, you have no grasp on the concept of what carry means. Did you see the ladder match he had with Sheamus? Sheamus carried that match, the entire structure of that match was laid out by Sheamus. Faces don't usually call matches, and the person usually calling is usually doing the carrying if there is carrying going on.Morrison is a very one dimensional spot worker, and those are the least likely to do any carrying. Spots are spots, selling is selling, carrying is beyond Morrison's abilities right now. Morrison has never carried anyone.

Orton doesn't carry anyone. Never has. And that's why most of his matches are boring and bland as fuck, unless it's John Cena carrying him.

Bryan didn't carry Miz at all. Miz more than held his own and was the reason that match had any heat whatsoever.

Cena is the only one on your list that has carried anyone in the WWE.

 

[...god...]

I don't like Miz either...at all. But he knows exactly how to make WWE's audience hate him. Nobody cares about his matches because he's so weak and not a good enough wrestler to make people invest in him that way. His strength is getting his heat back after his matches. He's probably the best talker on the roster until Trips comes back.

And another thing, how the fuck is Punk a "big boy" if Miz isn't? The guy gets cheap heat all the time, and has only had one really good non-spotfest match in nearly 3 years. (With Rey no-less.) Miz can at least develop genuine emotion on his own, Punk has to feud with the top face before the masses care. Miz is stuck feuding with that sack of crap JoMo, Riley, and an announcer and gets over. Punk's just another '06-'08 Edge, getting booked to do bad things to get over, talent be-damned.

God so true. Edge is good, but people forget how fucking ridiculous he was booked in 06-08. They had him do EVERY SINGLE BAD THING he possibly could. Even took poor Ken's briefcase and cashed it in AGAIN to get MORE cheap heat. He'd fucking randomly just come back and be inserted into a title match to cheaply win.. wtf?! Not to say that I'm trying to argue with Kaedon, because this logic that hardcore booking someone to get over as a heel doesn't proclaim the heel godly is abstruse to him. Take a look at Dashing Cody Rhodes, here's a guy who's getting fucking over on his talent ALONE.

 

[Kaedon]

If you think Morrison has ever carried anyone, you have no grasp on the concept of what carry means. Did you see the ladder match he had with Sheamus? Sheamus carried that match, the entire structure of that match was laid out by Sheamus. Faces don't usually call matches, and the person usually calling is usually doing the carrying if there is carrying going on.Morrison is a very one dimensional spot worker, and those are the least likely to do any carrying. Spots are spots, selling is selling, carrying is beyond Morrison's abilities right now. Morrison has never carried anyone. Bryan didn't carry Miz at all. Miz more than held his own and was the reason that match had any heat whatsoever.

Cena is the only one on your list that has carried anyone in the WWE.

Morrison has carried countless people in the ring, take king Sheamus for example. The only reason the crowd responded during any of those matches was because of the guy who knows how to work, who's been in hundreds more matches than some big goof who got shoved into the main event scene.

Orton and Bryan both carried Miz in the ring, and outside, while I can't argue Bryan is as charismatic as the Miz, Orton is more over than Miz has heat, so it's a push. Yeah, Miz plays an antagonist pretty well, but you don't give your title to a guy who does "pretty well". Del Rio does "pretty well", he doesn't deserve the title. Guy's need time to develop, but because we live in an age of people with short attention spans, we get told jobbers like the Miz are the best of the best in the industry. I don't buy it.

 

[Beer]

And you like Miz, and nothing's going to change your mind. If he was this great saviour like you claim him to be, why is it that I hear crickets during his matches? Why is it that after his music dies, while he's talking for the most part it's "What?" coming from the crowd and not the visceral heat that say that fat pig Vickie gets? She has more control over that crowd than Miz, why not give her the title if that is the bar you want to set. The Miz was in a TLC match with Lawler that barely drew a reaction, that's a reason right there. If you can't get over with ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS GIMMICKS IN WRESTLING, you're not championship material right now. Throw him in a feud, and feature him and lets see if he can get over. Don't devalue your title. Let the big boys Punk/Cena, you know, guys who can do it all and can draw flies, let them fight over the title because they matter and Miz doesn't.

What's wrong with you? There were boos flying left, right and centre this week.. and all other weeks.

 

[Beer]

Morrison has carried countless people in the ring, take king Sheamus for example. The only reason the crowd responded during any of those matches was because of the guy who knows how to work, who's been in hundreds more matches than some big goof who got shoved into the main event scene.

Orton and Bryan both carried Miz in the ring, and outside, while I can't argue Bryan is as charismatic as the Miz, Orton is more over than Miz has heat, so it's a push. Yeah, Miz plays an antagonist pretty well, but you don't give your title to a guy who does "pretty well". Del Rio does "pretty well", he doesn't deserve the title. Guy's need time to develop, but because we live in an age of people with short attention spans, we get told jobbers like the Miz are the best of the best in the industry. I don't buy it.

This argument is completely void. Seriously, you're saying that these guys aren't over enough (practically) and we are saying they are. If you can't plainly see the huge heat Miz gets on shows then you're deaf.

And your argument back to Enzo was literally, 'You give me an opinion and back it up with reason; I tell you something and don't back it up with anything.'

 

[MizMasta3000]

Morrison has carried countless people in the ring, take king Sheamus for example. The only reason the crowd responded during any of those matches was because of the guy who knows how to work, who's been in hundreds more matches than some big goof who got shoved into the main event scene.

Orton and Bryan both carried Miz in the ring, and outside, while I can't argue Bryan is as charismatic as the Miz, Orton is more over than Miz has heat, so it's a push. Yeah, Miz plays an antagonist pretty well, but you don't give your title to a guy who does "pretty well". Del Rio does "pretty well", he doesn't deserve the title. Guy's need time to develop, but because we live in an age of people with short attention spans, we get told jobbers like the Miz are the best of the best in the industry. I don't buy it.

How much more time does The Miz need to develop? He started on tough enough and lost. Keep in mind that Morrison won tough enough. This guy was at waterboy status in the locker room when he finally came to WWE and everyone thought Morrison had so much great potential. He started out hosting Diva contests on smackdown and when he finally did get into a ring (jobbing out Funaki), he was garbage. Morrison came strong in MNM and found early success. Fast forward to the ECW days, Miz's career was at a dead end once he started feuding with Balls Mahoney and Morrison was a top player in ECW after Benoit died. Then they started teaming up. Now The Miz is more solid on the mic and he is slightly improving his in-ring skills. Morrison continued to skate by. It was clear that Morrison was the break out star of this team once they had that short feud with DX but The Miz continued to play his part and slowly but surely improve. Then he pulled the trigger by attacking Morrison when JoMo got drafted. Ever since then, Miz has prove that he is ready to be crafted into a major star. His small feud with Cena wasn't much but Miz getting heat and showing he can put on a decent match with the biggest star in the company. When Morrison got buried back down to Smackdown's mid card when Taker came back, Miz won the US title and then went on to win the tag titles with Big Show. Along the way, Miz and Morrison's interbrand encounters gave Miz the upper-hand over the two. Fast forward again to when Morrison was drafted to RAW, Miz is the upper-mid card feuding with Daniel Bryan and Morrison is doing fuck all. He had a few mini feuds with DiBiase and teamed with Truth again for a short time. Meanwhile, The Miz became one of the most over heels on RAW. Morrison recently got into a program with Sheamus over Santino (..um..yeah) and now The Miz has to make Morrison look relevant again by giving him a title shot. Bottom line is that The Miz is the perfect rags to riches story and has proven over the years that he has the potential to be a big deal in this company. Truly homegrown talent that has been molded and shaped into a superstar.

 

[Kaedon]

This is a match with a guy who is as over as you think Miz is

[video=dailymotion;x1rfmg]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1rfmg_cena-vs-jericho-summerslam-2005_sport[/video]


This is Miz vs. Lawler

[video=youtube;3FRnO-ivKQs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FRnO-ivKQs[/video]



This is the heat a REALLY OVER HEEL GETS (even doing something stupid, if not annoying)

[video=youtube;wk2bDiXDezI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk2bDiXDezI[/video]



This is the Miz doing something stupid and annoying

[video=youtube;P4FT13Edt_Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4FT13Edt_Q[/video]


Yeah, Miz is totally the savior of the business.....

 

[monkeystyle]

Kaedon,

when you have to resort to hyperbole and putting words in people's mouths, you've lost. You're not even arguing anybody's points anymore, you're making up points that nobody even alluded to and arguing those. That's really poor form.

Also, just as a friendly note. When everybody else in the thread is telling you that you're wrong and you are literally the only person arguing your side, well, it just might be time to reevaluate that position you've taken.

 

[Kaedon]

Putting words in peoples mouths? You people are all acting like he's the second coming ZOMG HE'S SO OVER, no, he's not. He's over, but nowhere near over enough to be THE GUY in the company, which is what a champ is supposed to be. Unless of course, you think the title is nothing more than a prop, in which case, you're a moron. There is no hyperbole, he isn't as over as you think he is. He's barely as over as Alberto Del Rio and Drew Mcintyre. Call me when this guy does something more than being an average worker who happened to be in the right place at the right time.

 

[Beer]

How can you even directly compare The Rock/Jericho and Miz. We all know the Rock/Jericho draw heat better, we didn't even say they didn't, there's no point.

 

[Beer]

And Monk, fancy watching smackdown again tomorrow night?

 

[monkeystyle]

How can you even directly compare The Rock/Jericho and Miz. We all know the Rock/Jericho draw heat better, we didn't even say they didn't, there's no point.

Because without making stupid comparisons he has zero argument.

Also Kaedon, indulge me and hit control+F and find me anyone beside yourself who used the word saviour in their post. I've already done it. You want me to save you the time and just spoil it?

Hell, go get a dictionary and search for every synonym of saviour and you'll still only find yourself on that list.

Your whole argument basically at this point consists of "I know better than everyone else that I am arguing with even though I am the only one trying to argue this point."

 

[monkeystyle]

And Monk, fancy watching smackdown again tomorrow night?

That, I am out for. Don't get it tonight anyway. Probs gonna watch some tv and read a book or somethin. Sorry.