Rate Extreme Rules 2021

[InSaNe]

Because Okada is a much better wrestler than Roman. I am sorry, but you can make someone look kayfabe unstoppable as much as you want and it doesn't make a difference if the guys is not good enough in the ring to back it up. You can put chocolate sauce on dog manure and it doesn't change the fact that it is dog manure.

I have barely watched a WWE show at all in the past couple of years. And he is the major reason why. If I cannot believe what is going on, then it is no fun. And I cannot believe in Roman Reigns being the number one guy in the company.

But, who is going to replace Austin or The Rock? This is what I asked before. They are grooming Roman Reigns as the next generation Austin or The Rock. They're trying to do it. Yes, I know, you think he sucks... but this is what WWE is doing.

Brock Lesnar is just merely a stand-in as a replacement for Undertaker or Austin or The Rock.

Right now, there is NO "Face of the company." Austin and Rock were the face(s) of WWE depending on what WWE plans to market that month.

WWE now that they've shot themselves in the foot by removing things that make the company "make money," does not have a "spokesperson."

There is only "WWE Universe" (their own self-contained fanbase), and no casual fans who know WWE by name because of John Cena, Austin, The Rock, and The Undertaker.

That's what they're building with Roman Reigns.

You can't sit there and tell me, there's a Stone Cold or The Rock replacement in that Locker Room. Except Roman Reigns.

I do understand what you're saying, because this is what the fanbase said back when Daniel Bryan was red hot.

And that's the other thing; Daniel Bryan in WWE was not an Austin. He was more of a Shawn Michaels where only the WWE fans (universe) understand, the outside world doesn't understand the "Yes!" chants, memes, etc.

I say the same for fandango, he was red hot for a while, because the marketing for him did not translate into sales, attendance, or views for WWE. But that's what I've been saying. WWE needs an Austin, Rock, Cena or Undertaker.

 

[Jacob Fox]

But, who is going to replace Austin or The Rock? This is what I asked before. They are grooming Roman Reigns as the next generation Austin or The Rock. They're trying to do it. Yes, I know, you think he sucks... but this is what WWE is doing.

Brock Lesnar is just merely a stand-in as a replacement for Undertaker or Austin or The Rock.

Right now, there is NO "Face of the company." Austin and Rock were the face(s) of WWE depending on what WWE plans to market that month.

WWE now that they've shot themselves in the foot by removing things that make the company "make money," does not have a "spokesperson."

There is only "WWE Universe" (their own self-contained fanbase), and no casual fans who know WWE by name because of John Cena, Austin, The Rock, and The Undertaker.

That's what they're building with Roman Reigns.

You can't sit there and tell me, there's a Stone Cold or The Rock replacement in that Locker Room. Except Roman Reigns.

I do understand what you're saying, because this is what the fanbase said back when Daniel Bryan was red hot.

And that's the other thing; Daniel Bryan in WWE was not an Austin. He was more of a Shawn Michaels where only the WWE fans (universe) understand, the outside world doesn't understand the "Yes!" chants, memes, etc.

I say the same for fandango, he was red hot for a while, because the marketing for him did not translate into sales, attendance, or views for WWE. But that's what I've been saying. WWE needs an Austin, Rock, Cena or Undertaker.

I don't believe there has to be someone groomed to be the face of the company.

WWE has, over the years, had a lot of wrestlers organically get over with the fans. They had Daniel Bryan and Bray Wyatt and others. But they chose to overlook them in favor of Roman.

You can't tell the fans what they should like and that has been the Reigns problem from day one.

Roman is not an Austin either. So, they should go with who they think might be the best in lack of an Austin type character?

WWE can do whatever they want. I am not claiming they can't. But that doesn't mean I have to watch. And until the Roman thing is done, there is plenty of much better wrestling in the world to keep me entertained.

You can't sit there and tell me, there's a Stone Cold or The Rock replacement in that Locker Room. Except Roman Reigns.

Maybe I can't. But I can tell you that that person is not Roman Reigns.

Yes, I know, you think he sucks

I don't think Roman sucks and I likely have never said that he does. I have maintained only that he is mid card talent at best and doesn't belong as champion or face of the company.

Plenty of great wrestlers in the past were mid card talent at best. Greg Valentine is one that immediately comes to mind. That doesn't equal "he sucks." But it does mean I don't think he should be in the position he is in.

 

[InSaNe]

I don't believe there has to be someone groomed to be the face of the company.

WWE has, over the years, had a lot of wrestlers organically get over with the fans. They had Daniel Bryan and Bray Wyatt and others. But they chose to overlook them in favor of Roman.

I agree.

You can't tell the fans what they should like and that has been the Reigns problem from day one.

I agree.

Roman is not an Austin either. So, they should go with who they think might be the best in lack of an Austin type character?

I am not talking about the character. I'm talking about his drawing power. This is called "conversion." A marketing person puts Stone Cold's face, name, and if need to be, his "accolade" like WWE Superstar or WWE Champion, a person sees it, is excited to buy a ticket, watch Raw or Smackdown, buy a shirt, buy a video game, or whatever. Vince is pulling away from this mindset, and is focused on advertising dollars. The problem is, those ratings are dependent on having big names or at least recognizable superstars. On a weekly basis, he's putting Roman Reigns on marketing materials. That's grooming him to become an Austin, Rock, Cena, and/or Undertaker.

WWE can do whatever they want. I am not claiming they can't. But that doesn't mean I have to watch. And until the Roman thing is done, there is plenty of much better wrestling in the world to keep me entertained.

I'm on the same boat. I'm watching highlights every Raw, NXT, and/or Smackdown. People like me, Vince is losing.

Maybe I can't. But I can tell you that that person is not Roman Reigns.

WWE is saying that. That's the point. They're saying "Roman Reigns is the new Austin, Rock, Cena, and/or Undertaker. This is our flagbearer."

I don't think Roman sucks and I likely have never said that he does. I have maintained only that he is mid card talent at best and doesn't belong as champion or face of the company.

I read that you did, but I wasn't trying to put words into your mouth.. if you think I am... I am sorry. I am only referencing what you said. I think its in this thread.

Plenty of great wrestlers in the past were mid card talent at best. Greg Valentine is one that immediately comes to mind. That doesn't equal "he sucks." But it does mean I don't think he should be in the position he is in.

Okay.

 

[Jacob Fox]

I read that you did, but I wasn't trying to put words into your mouth.. if you think I am... I am sorry. I am only referencing what you said. I think its in this thread.

I do not say that Roman sucks even once in this thread.

My stance has consistently been that I don't think Roman is the man for the top spot in the company.

I think the dropping ratings agree with me.

 

[InSaNe]

I do not say that Roman sucks even once in this thread.

Once again, I read that you did somewhere. Maybe I read someone else's post, or not. Either way, I am sorry if I offended you.

My stance has consistently been that I don't think Roman is the man for the top spot in the company.

I think the dropping ratings agree with me.

Yup.

 

[Jacob Fox]

Once again, I read that you did somewhere. Maybe I read someone else's post, or not. Either way, I am sorry if I offended you.

Yup.

I am not offended. I am just the kind of guy who likes to make sure that my context is presented accurately.

I can understand why people might think I feel that way about Roman as I have been a harsh critic of his push. But I recognize that the man definitely has talent. I just don't think he has the talent WWE thinks he does.

 

[Redboy123@]

But, who is going to replace Austin or The Rock? This is what I asked before. They are grooming Roman Reigns as the next generation Austin or The Rock. They're trying to do it. Yes, I know, you think he sucks... but this is what WWE is doing.

Brock Lesnar is just merely a stand-in as a replacement for Undertaker or Austin or The Rock.

Right now, there is NO "Face of the company." Austin and Rock were the face(s) of WWE depending on what WWE plans to market that month.

WWE now that they've shot themselves in the foot by removing things that make the company "make money," does not have a "spokesperson."

There is only "WWE Universe" (their own self-contained fanbase), and no casual fans who know WWE by name because of John Cena, Austin, The Rock, and The Undertaker.

That's what they're building with Roman Reigns.

You can't sit there and tell me, there's a Stone Cold or The Rock replacement in that Locker Room. Except Roman Reigns.

I do understand what you're saying, because this is what the fanbase said back when Daniel Bryan was red hot.

And that's the other thing; Daniel Bryan in WWE was not an Austin. He was more of a Shawn Michaels where only the WWE fans (universe) understand, the outside world doesn't understand the "Yes!" chants, memes, etc.

I say the same for fandango, he was red hot for a while, because the marketing for him did not translate into sales, attendance, or views for WWE. But that's what I've been saying. WWE needs an Austin, Rock, Cena or Undertaker.

It's not the 90s anymore an Austin character will not be a huge popular cultural icon.

Anti establishment figures were huge in the 90s. Just not the same anymore.

No clue which type of character would be a huge thing. Don't think it's possible. Probably a gay trans bi racial woke green finger person

 

[InSaNe]

To whom it may concern... (an idiot whom I shall not name...)

I am not talking about the character. I'm talking about his drawing power. This is called "conversion." A marketing person puts Stone Cold's face, name, and if need to be, his "accolade" like WWE Superstar or WWE Champion, a person sees it, is excited to buy a ticket, watch Raw or Smackdown, buy a shirt, buy a video game, or whatever. Vince is pulling away from this mindset, and is focused on advertising dollars. The problem is, those ratings are dependent on having big names or at least recognizable superstars. On a weekly basis, he's putting Roman Reigns on marketing materials. That's grooming him to become an Austin, Rock, Cena, and/or Undertaker.

I intentionally made the font large so you can READ.

 

[Snowman1]

I definitely see Roman as on a Cena-like level for them (I'd argue better, factoring in that the recent Cena-era white washing makes me nauseous. John Cena is not an all time great, and his reign on top was absolute dog shit. It blows my mind that people have turned around on him. Stop it.)

But going back to the Austin and Rock comparison, they also had Mick Foley, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Kane, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle. Big Show, Chris Benoit, and in wrestling I'd argue the most important figure of them all, Mr. McMahon himself.

 

[Smart Marx]

Let’s make sure we keep the conversation in here above board, please. We can make our points respectably.

Please don’t bait people into unnecessary escalation.

 

[InSaNe]

But going back to the Austin and Rock comparison, they also had Mick Foley, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Kane, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle. Big Show, Chris Benoit, and in wrestling I'd argue the most important figure of them all, Mr. McMahon himself.

I wasn't trying to "compare" the characters themselves. I was trying to talk about the drawing power of these people.. WWE (today) doesn't have superstars who are money makers, merchandise sellers, ratings boomers, front-page news stars. Austin was that guy, The Rock was that guy.

- Mick Foley wasn't a merchandise seller, a ratings boom, and so on. He was more like a New York brawler, a hardcore wrestler, and a sort of child of Undertaker - The child Undertaker gimmick exemplifies Mick Foley under Mankind. But people remember Mick Foley as the lumberjack, hardcore legend. He is marketed sometimes, but only on hardcore-themed PPV's, matches, and like-minded events. He's not on the forefront.
- Triple H is more like Shawn Michaels. He's sometimes on the forefront, sometimes in the spotlight. He is known as a technical wrestling guy, modeling after "a Shawn Michaels." Bret Hart, The Miz is in this group.
- The Undertaker is the ABSOLUTE legend. But he doesn't use the mic to say he is the best, he just uses his actions speaks louder than words. He also thrives on atmosphere. He is only marketed on two fronts: Hardcore themes, Halloween themes. Coming up, that was true, but once he established his gimmick, his shine, his marketing power, he became the forefront of WrestleMania every year. Some films are even inspired by Undertaker. Death Race? The big boss is the EXACT gimmick of Undertaker. I put taker up there with Austin in every way. But, the thing about Mark, is he isn't trying fight with Vince, like Brock Lesnar. I'm of the opinion that Taker shouldn't have been retired by Lesnar. Sigh...
- Kane: See Undertaker. As a gimmick, he's Undertaker's brother. He is marketed similarly. But he has never broken outside the main event idealism. Kane is more of a "in the shadows" gimmick. He is well-known superstar, but never got outside that. Complicated gimmick I'd say. Not often spotlighted, marketed, but when they do it's because Undertaker isn't scheduled. For example, his gimmick is about being a demon, with a thirst for fire. So, it stands to reason he's on "Hell in a Cell" poster.
- Chris Jericho is one of the top guys, its a little complicated to explain this one. But I will say this; Jericho is more like The Miz, than I put The Miz into the same class as Shawn Michaels. Jericho is a technique wrestling person. He beat Austin and The Rock all in the same night. Undisputed.
- Kurt Angle is a technical wrestling person. He was marketed more of a patriotic American hero. Because of his background in Olympics. He debuted on TNA, and was a BIG deal. Hulk Hogan-level. However, leading up to that switch, he was marketed as a heel person who was unleashed, kinda like Taz in his ECW days.
- Big Show is marketed more of a colossus wrestling person because of his size, but he isn't intimidating. He WAS intimidating with the long hair, in nWo. I barely remember him being marketed as much, unless he is in a huge match. If there was a Big Show vs Shaq, THAT would've been a blockbuster match.
- Chris Benoit? Technical wrestler. Thing is, in WCW, he was marketed more of a technical wrestler than anything. Sometimes used in PPV marketing. But in WWE, he was made fun of... that whole "Toothless Aggression" thing. That was after Vince coined "Ruthless Aggression" era.
- Mr. McMahon is only big under the shadow of SCSA. I know he had a role in the rivalry, but he is famous because of his rivalry with SCSA.