Paul Heyman to TNA?

[This Guy]

^^It doesn't matter how many people he beats, how many World Title shots/reigns is he getting? Is he close to being in the main event picture? No. WWE makes guys like Mike Knox, Vladimir Kozlov, Ezikel Jackson etc all look like Monsters, bad asses etc. Kozlov holds wins over Triple H, Jeff Hardy and other top stars, main eventers and world Champions. If Kozlov was added to Legacy tomorrow, you would call him a Legacy Lacky because he ain't going to take over the leadership role and neither is Joe in the MEM.

The MEM is the moddern day nWo. Now everyone and there uncle gets added to the group. Its started already, Jenna, Joe, Taz, Morgan & Traci. How much bigger does it get? And just as in the original nWo (prior to the Wolfpack split) Unless your name was Hogan, Hall or Nash you were most likely a lacky. Well thats what everyone in the MEM is unless there names are Angle, Booker, Nash, or Stiener.

 

[Evil Austin]

@ people saying the TNA has too much politics and wrestlers with creative influence backstage, it's not like the WWE don't have that. Sure they don't do it to a point like WCW did were whenever someone had to lose the title, that wrestler would complain and use thier powers not to do it and WCW died because of it.

But the WWE has three people I can think off the top of my head with creative powers backstage and there are probably a few more, Triple H for obvious reasons and Shawn and Taker have talked about reasoning Vince out of stupid ideas in the past and telling him not to do them.

 

[Airfixx]

^^^You've missed the point.

No-one has stated there's "too much" politics in TNA or "more than WWE".

I (and it seems others) were referring to "Creative Control" as in that which the likes of Nash & Hogan had written into their contracts during their time WCW (Not the general politicising where the boss is still ultimately in a position to do what they want unless held to 'ransom' by some means or another).

 

[SamiCallihan]

Heyman need of creative control.

 

[Airfixx]

What language is that? ...Caveman?

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

All though you may be right about everything you said, there is one flaw in your theory. You say its Spike TV that wants them....thats not the case. Spike only pays the bills because TNA can't aford to and its part of there deal. TNA wants Nash, they want Stiener, if they didn't they'd be gone and Spike would be more then happy to put the money else where. If everyone knows there not a draw then why does Spike want them there? You talk about all the young guys that Nash & Stiener have worked with....where are they all now? Lethal is the only one still employeed by a major promotion. All that work with the Naturals & Williams and they didn't even get a look at by the WWE when TNA cut them loose. Why? Because in the big picture of Pro Wrestling there still nobodies. So if your going to talk about these old guys as actually been useful use better examples. The only problem is there is none.

You also talk about Angle being willing to put people over. Yeah he put Lethal over and he jobbed to Joe. Again so what? Hogan once jobbed to Billy Kidman, didn't make Kidman a star though. Lethal as mentioned hasn't been seen in weeks. Joe is now a MEM lacky. They took so long and so long to build Joe up to the World Title, gave him a pretty good run with it, then he lost it and has been a mid carder and is now even the curtain jerker ever since.

Now of course I'm not saying that there isn't pleanty of people to blame for all this, obviously TNA management definatly being among them, but you can not honestly tell me that you don't see the similarities between WCW and TNA and not suspect for even a second that some of these older stars (Angle, Nash, Foley, Stiener, Booker, etc) have some sort of pull in the company.

Ok. TNA does want them, you make a good point. Always read that Spike wanted recognizable stars and thats why they loaded the payroll. Spike still thinks they are recognizable and wants them there. Just because they are TV executives doesn't mean they are in tune to the pulse of the wrestling fan. Just because a guy was formerly in the WWE in the past ten years doesn't necessarily mean he is still as popular as he was ten years ago. We as fans know this, but do the t/v execs know this? They just remember the names. That's why they are wanted by Spike but the proof is in the putting, TNA's top stars and booking team don't draw. TNA's PPVs are at dismal lows and instead of competing with the E's C-show, they are competing with the E's one hour syndicated throwaway that gets far less exposure than Impact. What can be concluded other then the "legends", the main focus of TNA don't draw. So why not and try a new approach and lend your name to help other talent build the company? Your getting paid well, why not?

The condition of TNA can be attributed to the booking and not necessarily these guys creative pull. How many instances can really substantiate that claim anyways? Are you insinuating the main event guys conspire to get dudes fired after working with them? Instead of that, it appears the bookin committee is impatient with storylines and have no real grasp on how to write with continuity in mind. It doesn't help that the audience in the Impact Zone are mainly theme park tourists and not wrestling fans who paid to see wrestling so their response shouldn't really reflect upon the entire wrestling audience that tunes in to watch. The young guys being gone since working with the legends is not a thing of ego or creative control or them being "no bodies" because in the grandscheme of things TNA is a "nobody" in the wrestling biz too.It's because the booking team has no clue.

TNA had a nice balance before Russo got there. They've been in a rut since his arrival. How can it be attributed to guys like Nash and Stiener who were there first and it was a better product then than now? There were NO stories of backstage politicing before Russo showed up. Stiener was there. Nash was there. Angle was there. Sting was there. Cage was there. AJ, Joe and Daniels were in the title mix. Joe was over. AJ was too and NOT jobbed out. The X division was still prestigious and well booked. Russo showed up. Things went to shit. The only thing that is fun to me about TNA is when Kong wrestles. And thats sad since for the most part, I hate womens wrestling. I hardly doubt the egos of some guys who were there first and never seemingly had a problem backstage before (in TNA) could have had a hand in this company's direction since Russo's arrival.

 

[This Guy]

Ok. TNA does want them, you make a good point. Always read that Spike wanted recognizable stars and thats why they loaded the payroll. Spike still thinks they are recognizable and wants them there. Just because they are TV executives doesn't mean they are in tune to the pulse of the wrestling fan. Just because a guy was formerly in the WWE in the past ten years doesn't necessarily mean he is still as popular as he was ten years ago. We as fans know this, but do the t/v execs know this? They just remember the names. That's why they are wanted by Spike but the proof is in the putting, TNA's top stars and booking team don't draw. TNA's PPVs are at dismal lows and instead of competing with the E's C-show, they are competing with the E's one hour syndicated throwaway that gets far less exposure than Impact. What can be concluded other then the "legends", the main focus of TNA don't draw. So why not and try a new approach and lend your name to help other talent build the company? Your getting paid well, why not?

The condition of TNA can be attributed to the booking and not necessarily these guys creative pull. How many instances can really substantiate that claim anyways? Are you insinuating the main event guys conspire to get dudes fired after working with them? Instead of that, it appears the bookin committee is impatient with storylines and have no real grasp on how to write with continuity in mind. It doesn't help that the audience in the Impact Zone are mainly theme park tourists and not wrestling fans who paid to see wrestling so their response shouldn't really reflect upon the entire wrestling audience that tunes in to watch. The young guys being gone since working with the legends is not a thing of ego or creative control or them being "no bodies" because in the grandscheme of things TNA is a "nobody" in the wrestling biz too.It's because the booking team has no clue.

TNA had a nice balance before Russo got there. They've been in a rut since his arrival. How can it be attributed to guys like Nash and Stiener who were there first and it was a better product then than now? There were NO stories of backstage politicing before Russo showed up. Stiener was there. Nash was there. Angle was there. Sting was there. Cage was there. AJ, Joe and Daniels were in the title mix. Joe was over. AJ was too and NOT jobbed out. The X division was still prestigious and well booked. Russo showed up. Things went to shit. The only thing that is fun to me about TNA is when Kong wrestles. And thats sad since for the most part, I hate womens wrestling. I hardly doubt the egos of some guys who were there first and never seemingly had a problem backstage before (in TNA) could have had a hand in this company's direction since Russo's arrival.

Oh believe me I believe the major problem is Russo more then anything else. But your timeline is a little wrong. Russo was technically in TNA before any of those former WWE people (Nash, Angle, Stiener, Cage, etc) However yes Russo left the company then returned later. However even on his current run, Russo was with TNA before Angle & Cage. I clearly remember reading an interview with Angle after he joined TNA and one of the questions he was asked was did he have any hesitations about joining TNA because of Russo being there. And Angle said he was concerned because he was fully aware of Russo's rep, but having now worked with Russo for a while he can say he truely sees no signs of that reputaion and loves working with Russo.

I certainly was no implying that Nash for example went out of his way to get anyone fired. I don't even believe back in the creative control days of WCW that anyone went out of there way to encourage someone's dismissle from the company. But you can not deny that of those names you mentioned that had worked with the legends, 3 out of the 4 don't even work with the company. No I don't think Stiener got Petey fired. I'm sure they actually got along just fine. But I think its a safe bet that after Petey returned after being double crossed by Stiener and the MEM, and they fought a couple times in which Stiener dominated and beat him everytime, I'm sure he never once went to Russo or anyone else and said, "hey maybe Petey should get a win over me, it will help elevate him".

Yes I ultimately believe that Russo is the main problem. Even though he does have his momments.

But I also believe that there is currently no one else proven to take his place currently employeed in the company. Not to say someone couldn't do it, but that no one has previous experience to do it. Therefore I'm sure his job is safe.

I do believe that the Jarrett issue could potentially lead to the destruction of TNA. And I do believe that even if guys like Angle don't have actual creative control like the WCW days with Hogan etc, they definatly are in the ears or the right people. They may not always get there way, but I bet they do more often then not.

 

[He who knows more than Nation]

^^ Fuck man. I had an awesome post but I always get logged out if I dont touch my keyboard for a few mins. so I have to relogin and I lose my shit. Sometimes I cut and paste before it happens but this shit is getting annoying.

I'll just sum it up. Sorry about the timeline. I only spot watch TNA so I am inaccurate. But I still stand by the point that since Russo became the focus of the booking core, TNA 's growth has been Blue. Not because of the legend or their egos.

TNA has capable talent to book if Russo is canned. Foley, Cornette, Tenay and Borash would all make great candidates and all but Foley have booking experiencebut Mick's sold more books than TNA has PPV's and has a keen mind for the business. Plus he can teach the young, green guys the art of the promo, that's knowledge that's worth it's weight in gold and would go a looonngg way in getting guys over.

I always thought wrestling guys made better creative guys than t.v writers and marks. Raw was at it's best when booked by the Briscoes, Patterson and Vince. Now it's awful compared to the Attitude era not because of the rating, but because it's booked by Vince's yes-men who weren't brought up in the biz and really don't know how to do it properly.
Russo is a mark. He has zero wrestling background. He was a freelance writer before he got his break with the E. He had a few great ideas and it worked for awhile but he also had Vince has his filter. Lord knows how many bad ideas Vince kept from gettin out. He's a mark for himself and his writting style and fails to recognize it hasn't worked for him this decade. Look at his track record. WCW? TNA? Nothing noteworthy that is positive. That's ego. He's bad. Nothing good can come of him booking this company and nothing has. You really can't name one thing this man has done well for any company he has worked for this decade (and he did work for the E for like 6 weeks in 2002, but once it became apparent he was useless there, he dipped out). Either way it's time for dude to go. I hardly doubt any backstage politicing is doing a percentage of the damage that Russo is doing.

 

[This Guy]

again you'll get no arguement from me on Russo being the pipple on wrestlings ass. And I know and agree with everything you said about needing a filter (McMahon back in his days with WWE and I'm sure Jarrett in TNA) But reguardless of how much backstage politics there is, even if its as small as .001% there is backstage polictics in every buisness, TNA is definatly not free from this anymore then any other company in the world. There is always that employee who manages to make himself look like gold when he's not. I wish I could give you examples from my own job, but needless to say it would actually be a violation of our employeement policies.

I'm sure Russo definatly falls into this category. Your right that he is a mark for himself, but he got so many believing that he was 100% responsible for the Attitude Era that he is the most valuable comodity in wrestling and that you need him if you want quality.

Likewise I'm sure many of these legends (Angle, Nash etc) try to convince people that they are indispensable. And I'm sure some people believe it. Do I think that its causing the problems Russo's writing does? No. But it doesn't help.

There are many problems in TNA, just as there are in the WWE and any other company buisness etc. But sometimes its better to start with the simple problems before the big problems.