Paul Heyman is a Genius

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Axis

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How exactly is that a "horrible" idea. Run through a roster that is absolutely worthless in terms of draw power and build two stars at the same time that sells ppvs along the way, make one huge franchise star after a match that would sell more than anything TNA has known, then follow it up with the potential match of the year and break their previous ppv record. That sounds pretty fucing awesome, regardless of 1 minute taps. You create a bankable star who is young that you can build around for 10 plus years, you create numbers that the company hasn't seen, you make kurt angle relevant again and your company is finally showing signs of profitability and life with fresh ideas. If that's a "horrible" idea, what's your grasp on great ideas?

Two reasons.

1. They don't build two stars, at least not in the long-term. They build up a monster for a few months, only to have him tap to Bryan Danielson in a minute.

2. Bryan Danielson is not a threatening figure. One minute victories? If Bryan Danielson is going to be on a roster, you think it's smart for them to use him in one-minute matches? If I'm going to watch Bryan Danielson, I want to see a 10, 20, or 30 minute match. He is not Brock Lesnar, where it is just fun to see him murder midgets. He's a calculating, cerebral wrestler. His greatest matches are not one-minute squashes. They are matches that are given ample time for him to tell a whole story.

So you make one star, don't even use that one properly, and bury your entire roster along the way.
 

KenFan4life

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^ so what's your idea then?

"Daniel Bryan comes in and wrestles for 37 straight hours with Samoa Joe, in the end, neither man taps or gets pinned, they handshake each other's nuts and say This One's for Ring of Honor...in front of a tv audience of 0.08"
 

...god...

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rofl.

to be the fair, the idea culminating like that would probably get some nice ppv buys.
 

Axis

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^ so what's your idea then?

"Daniel Bryan comes in and wrestles for 37 straight hours with Samoa Joe, in the end, neither man taps or gets pinned, they handshake each other's nuts and say This One's for Ring of Honor...in front of a tv audience of 0.08"
Probably 38 hours, just so they can have a good finishing run.
 

Axis

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Oh and that idea was also Paul Heyman's, so everybody has to like it too.
 

prophenzo

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Two reasons.

1. They don't build two stars, at least not in the long-term. They build up a monster for a few months, only to have him tap to Bryan Danielson in a minute.

2. Bryan Danielson is not a threatening figure. One minute victories? If Bryan Danielson is going to be on a roster, you think it's smart for them to use him in one-minute matches? If I'm going to watch Bryan Danielson, I want to see a 10, 20, or 30 minute match. He is not Brock Lesnar, where it is just fun to see him murder midgets. He's a calculating, cerebral wrestler. His greatest matches are not one-minute squashes. They are matches that are given ample time for him to tell a whole story.

So you make one star, don't even use that one properly, and bury your entire roster along the way.

Using him properly is only to the perception you have of him. People who have changed their preconceived notions: Jeff Jarrett went from flamboyant country music singer to jaded, dickhead type of character, Austin went from basically a blond haired pretty boy mid carder to bald, beer drinking, swearing top draw. Sting went from Sgt. Peppers to Crow. Hulk Hogan went from top face to most despised, egotistical heel. Dustin Rhodes to Goldust. All of these guys had been well established with their previous characters and had far more national exposure with those characters before they transitioned and very successfully as well. It wouldn't be hard to sell a guy who is already known as a submission guy run have the most MDK finisher in the company. He can still have 30 minute matches, but make people want to pay to see him first. Mainstream fans don't give a shit about how well someone can bump, suplex and subtleties that IWC folk do. Give them a reason to care, and Heyman is the master of making unimposing characters look tough. Tazz, anyone? You build him, I don't really agree on minute taps EVERY match, but on TV matches, YES. PPVs, make him look vulnerable, but still superior.

And him running thru the roster in TNA means dick. That roster is basically worthless, there isn't a damn bit of drawing power and that is just a plain fact. Have Danielson tear it up from one end, whomever the next Goldberg is tear up the other end. They meet, two undefeated top, fresh talents. I don't agree on a 1 minute tap on that match most of all and I don't think Heyman would shit on a money match with TNA esque booking. The new Goldberg isn't buried and a simple "random heel pokes fun at him for losing which causes new monster to turn face" helps cement him as a top face. The Angle thing is simple booking and money is made. Outside the 1 minute taps, I see nothing to complain about. Two stars are made, pay per views sell and people start talking about TNA. Again, it's not burying a whole roster, TNA's roster is worthless and has been buried numerous times already. Putting someone over strong and burying a whole roster is different, btw.
 

Axis

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The first part of your post doesn't really make sense given what we're talking about. There isn't an argument over a huge gimmick change for Danielson. The question is how to use him. If you think the best way to use him is in one-minute squashes, then fine. The problem is, the guys is does not look intimidating. He is good at squashing skinny guys, but TNA is not ROH, and it is not filled with skinny guys. You can't force him into a mold. (Tazz is 50 pounds heavier). Not many people can make an entertaining, cerebral match to bring down a bigger opponent than Danielson can. Why not utilize that? Especially look at context. Impact are generally filled with shitty wrestling. Most matches are like 3 - 6 minutes long anyway. Are 1 - 2 minute matches going to stand out? If I knew Danielson was going to get 8 - 10 minutes on Impact, I'd actually tune in.

And when you have a monster squashing everybody for several months and a guy tapping everybody in a minute for several months, you don't expect to hurt the roster along the way? It's a haphazard idea, clearly based on his idea for Big Show/CM Punk from December 2 Remember. Only, that one had context and made sense, and this one was shot-gunned, but people lapped it up anyway because it was his.
 

KenFan4life

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tna could just have hired colin delaney and have him job like a mofo' to the monster guy and daniel bryan. ... throw in gunner and steve(or scott/mudd, whatever his name) and keep rotating those guys in.

JOB SQUAD 2011.... (probably be rebranded as "Job Squad Cage" or "Brother Job Squad" 2011)
 

...god...

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Probably cause the guys back then were actually trained and were in "fit" wrestler shape (like 210 -280 pounds) compared to the current backyard average joe (170 pound out of shape) indy guys nowadays.

by the way, wtf axis, that was an awesome idea from Heyman (alot better than Old Guy Stable vs Young Guy Stable).
it's funny you say this, very funny. When the only guy in a main event/high caliber spot in main stream wrestling right now that is severely out of shape and has the most pathetic physique is no one other than your boy. He doesn't even look like he has any muscle mass left on his body, the rest is just flab, pretty pathetic.
 

PeepShow

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He never really had much to begin with.
 

seX-Power

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he never really had much of anything to begin with
 
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The first part of your post doesn't really make sense given what we're talking about. There isn't an argument over a huge gimmick change for Danielson. The question is how to use him. If you think the best way to use him is in one-minute squashes, then fine. The problem is, the guys is does not look intimidating. He is good at squashing skinny guys, but TNA is not ROH, and it is not filled with skinny guys. You can't force him into a mold. (Tazz is 50 pounds heavier). Not many people can make an entertaining, cerebral match to bring down a bigger opponent than Danielson can. Why not utilize that? Especially look at context. Impact are generally filled with shitty wrestling. Most matches are like 3 - 6 minutes long anyway. Are 1 - 2 minute matches going to stand out? If I knew Danielson was going to get 8 - 10 minutes on Impact, I'd actually tune in.

And when you have a monster squashing everybody for several months and a guy tapping everybody in a minute for several months, you don't expect to hurt the roster along the way? It's a haphazard idea, clearly based on his idea for Big Show/CM Punk from December 2 Remember. Only, that one had context and made sense, and this one was shot-gunned, but people lapped it up anyway because it was his.


I never said I believed every match should be 1 minute taps. For TV matches that are free to the fans, yes, it would be awesome to see him tap mid card and old vets in one minute. He doesn't have to be 6'3 250 to be imposing. If the submission is a "from anywhere" type submission where opponents haven't figured a reversal or adequate defense for somewhat fits into Danielson's cerebral tactician character as every match he finds a new, refreshing way to apply the hold in a quick manner. The psychology of each match would be the same basic plot, but Danielson's ability would give each match a twist, keeping it fresh. Submissions are different than pinning someone in regards to "squashing". It's not like the 5'7 180 lb is going in there, spearing people and jackhammering people in complete squashes, if the move looks convincing, and Danielson is the person to make it look such, it's very plausible he could have the move and go on a streak. It's not a character issue, it's a matter of how he's perceived and if they book it well enough, the move looks convincing and gets over, and Danielson can do that with his talents, he can fit the "surging- squash guy" mold a bit differently. I never said I agreed with the whole idea, I just really liked it, it was exciting and that was the first thing that struck in my mind was the Punk-Show thing, just on a much grander scale, I felt it could have shifted TNA into the black. I don't lap the idea up because up because the idea is a Heyman idea, I like the idea because it sounds like an entertaining idea to me.

As far as it hurting the roster, I really think that depends who's getting squashed and how badly. TNA has a large roster, they could feed guys like Eric Young to them all day long for Impacts and PPVs could be money making matches with TNA's "Established guys" who have been buried for the past four years times before. TNA's roster is filled with damaged goods from the Russo era, and it's not like there are any draws in TNA's locker room that just have to be protected. There's not much more you can do to drag the roster down and I really don't this idea is one of them.
 

...god...

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it's funny cus they're kinda doing this idea with Crimson and Gunner already.
 

KenFan4life

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it's funny you say this, very funny. When the only guy in a main event/high caliber spot in main stream wrestling right now that is severely out of shape and has the most pathetic physique is no one other than your boy. He doesn't even look like he has any muscle mass left on his body, the rest is just flab, pretty pathetic.

alright, Mr Anderson happens not to be in BATISTA/Cena shape, but the guy ain't in Samoa Joe/JBL level of flabby physiques...

I think if anything, Dude is somewhere along the lines of Jeff Jarrett (skinny-fat, some muscle), CM Punk (where's the muscle?), and Edge (been the prototypical 'skinny person with a gut' guy for awhile).

not super ripped like John Morrison, not super buff like Stiener/Cena, but not super fat like Samoa Joe/JBL.
just kinda in there, somewhere in the middle 'ish area.